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Old 2009-01-03, 22:08   Link #301
k//eternal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rias View Post
Spoiler for speculation:
Spoiler:


Quote:
Originally Posted by chronotrig View Post
Wait a second, k//eternal and the translation posted above are right.

Spoiler for all red text:
Oh hey, I'm glad my catch might actually have been worth something. In that case,

Spoiler:
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Old 2009-01-03, 22:30   Link #302
chronotrig
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This whole thing about 'what is someone's name' has me a bit edgy. Names are important in almost all magic-related fantasies, but we don't know the rules for how people are named in Umineko.
Spoiler for ep4:
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Old 2009-01-03, 22:33   Link #303
Rias
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Originally Posted by Flyvedelta View Post
Wait, if Kanon did survive and did not die in the first episode, that means that he's the only one that survive in the first episode right ?

But that injury on his chest cannot be fake, so. .
Quote:
Originally Posted by k//eternal View Post
Spoiler:




Spoiler:
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Old 2009-01-03, 22:38   Link #304
k//eternal
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Originally Posted by Rias View Post
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
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Old 2009-01-03, 23:27   Link #305
Sterling01
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Originally Posted by chronotrig View Post
Spoiler for chapter 17:
Spoiler for Ep 4:
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Old 2009-01-03, 23:30   Link #306
yangxu
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Spoiler:
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Old 2009-01-03, 23:35   Link #307
Sterling01
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In Ep 2 when was Kanon's death confirmed??
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Originally Posted by yangxu View Post
Spoiler:
Kanon is the title he got when he started working for the family he does have another name
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Old 2009-01-03, 23:38   Link #308
Von Himmel
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Spoiler:

This might be weird, but what about 'missing people' ? I mean, if someone actually manage to fake his/her death, can you count him/her as 'survivors' ? For some reason, calling them as survivors are kinda weird for some reasons. Also, because he/she does not die yet, they can't be counted as 'the dead'

Or perhaps, the words 'survivor' actually means for one who survived the twilight killing and had been targetted before ?
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Old 2009-01-03, 23:44   Link #309
k//eternal
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This might be weird, but what about 'missing people' ? I mean, if someone actually manage to fake his/her death, can you count him/her as 'survivors' ? For some reason, calling them as survivors are kinda weird for some reasons. Also, because he/she does not die yet, they can't be counted as 'the dead'

Or perhaps, the words 'survivor' actually means for one who survived the twilight killing and had been targetted before ?
I'd certainly count them as "humans", unless going missing makes one not human for some reason.
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Old 2009-01-03, 23:47   Link #310
Von Himmel
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Well, that's the problem for me
Isn't it simpler to say : All humans in this island have an alibi. That also includes the dead.

But, Beato seems to play with her words But it's beat that we're talking about, so I'm not pretty sure myself.

Well, that still didn't answer this though :
Spoiler:
. Or perhaps it's an another way of saying that the murderers are not in the boiler room ?

I don't get it, the red text in this chapter is deadly . .
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Old 2009-01-03, 23:54   Link #311
k//eternal
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I wouldn't look for an answer that contradicts the red text; it looks pretty unambiguous to me.

Unless you want to say
Spoiler:
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Old 2009-01-04, 00:34   Link #312
yangxu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sterling01 View Post
In Ep 2 when was Kanon's death confirmed??

Kanon is the title he got when he started working for the family he does have another name
You're right, his death was not confirmed in Ep. 2.
And it's likely that someone took over Kanon's title by inheriting a symbolic item indicating this. But what contradicts the imposter theory is that everyone recognized Kanon almost immediately. Surely, the servants don't simply look for items that represent a person in particular, they must've stared into Kanon's face to address him as Kanon.

Now, I don't trust any of the meta-world stuff, however, Kanon's eye color was red when Genji and the others found him, yet no one among them pointed out this obvious trait. If this was an artifact of magic, then it's insigificant, since it's not real. But if his eye color existed parallely in the real world, then something's wrong.

Also when Shanon brought in the cobwebs, I assume the imposter was killed, so who ended up killing everyone then? On the other hand, if it was the real Kanon Shanon killed, then he must've not been the killer responsible for eliminating the rest of the Ushiromiya members.
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Old 2009-01-04, 00:47   Link #313
k//eternal
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I don't buy someone actually getting killed by cobwebs. Pretty definitely meta-only.

Unless she fetched the cleaver he used in Ep. 1 and chopped him with it.
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Old 2009-01-04, 01:03   Link #314
chronotrig
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In ep2, Kanon's death was confirmed in red by Beato, right after Jessica's corpse was found.
Kanon was killed in this room.
This room meaning Jessica's room. She also says the same thing again later.
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Old 2009-01-04, 01:16   Link #315
k//eternal
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If "Kanon" is a title, then is Kanon "killed" if he throws away that identity?
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Old 2009-01-04, 01:42   Link #316
Ithekro
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Ah the complexities of not knowing everything that is and is not fact.

Word games and titles designed to keep the reader in the dark until the end.

Like Higurashi, we are missing something important that just is not clear in the first four episodes...once it gets told in the answers arcs, it will be "oh of course, that fits" moments all around...but the connecting pieces are missing still...or out of order.
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Old 2009-01-04, 01:44   Link #317
Rias
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Putting aside the "mutiple Kanon" possibilty for now, and assuming Beatrice isn't being cheesy by saying refering a person by his real name (kinda like saying Shannon is dead but actually Sayo is not), Kanon's condition as a corpse in ep1-4
Spoiler for ep4 red text:
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Old 2009-01-04, 04:36   Link #318
Von Himmel
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Oh, one more questions. When did the Beatrice's game began ? Was it when all the Ushiromiya came to the island, or was it at the night of the first day ?
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Old 2009-01-04, 09:45   Link #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chronotrig View Post
Wait a second, k//eternal and the translation posted above are right.

Spoiler for all red text:
Spoiler for Episode 3, end:


Quote:
Originally Posted by k//eternal View Post
If "Kanon" is a title, then is Kanon "killed" if he throws away that identity?
This isn't possible due to Lambda's red truth. Kanon had this name ever since he graduated from the Fukuin house and she stated clearly that only the person himself can bear such name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyvedelta View Post
Oh, one more questions. When did the Beatrice's game began ? Was it when all the Ushiromiya came to the island, or was it at the night of the first day ?
It is implied that the game starts when everyone is gathered on Rokkenjima.
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Old 2009-01-04, 12:33   Link #320
Sterling01
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
This isn't possible due to Lambda's red truth. Kanon had this name ever since he graduated from the Fukuin house and she stated clearly that only the person himself can bear such name.
That's not true as 34's text says only Kanon can use his name, it doesn't say he's only person who can use the name "Kanon".
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