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Old 2009-01-04, 10:20   Link #1001
Tak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
Dude, what, she was on the pipe, too?
Maaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyybbbbbeeeee?

*Whistles*

- Tak
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Old 2009-01-04, 10:54   Link #1002
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Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Maaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyybbbbbeeeee?

*Whistles*

- Tak
"Im leaving Frontier to bring Ai-kun home... and find some really good weed, yo!".

BTW, I finally figured out what the nice picture under your nametag is all about. Good series, that Mai-Otome. Mai-Hime, too, but the second one was better.
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Old 2009-01-04, 10:55   Link #1003
Tak
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Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
BTW, I finally figured out what the nice picture under your nametag is all about. Good series, that Mai-Otome. Mai-Hime, too, but the second one was better.
Of course Mai Hime was better, everyone knows that.

Seeing Mai going full of rage and Shizuru going apeshit are simply priceless moments.

- Tak
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Old 2009-01-04, 11:13   Link #1004
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Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Of course Mai Hime was better, everyone knows that.

Seeing Mai going full of rage and Shizuru going apeshit are simply priceless moments.

- Tak
Nah, sorry. I like the setting of Mai-Otome much more ( because it has more potential of a "Nations in conflict" scenario ), the whole Otome concept is better ( letting the girls do the fighting, instead of their pets ), it has less Mikoto ( always better.... almost as annoying an character as Ranka ) and Shizuru being less psycho and more the calm lady of war. All in all, a much superior setting. As for the story, also much better than the "highschool comedy, then abrupt shift to tragedy fight anime" Mai-Hime.
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Old 2009-01-04, 11:15   Link #1005
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Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
Nah, sorry. I like the setting of Mai-Otome much more ( because it has more potential of a "Nations in conflict" scenario ), the whole Otome concept is better ( letting the girls do the fighting, instead of their pets ), it has less Mikoto ( always better.... almost as annoying an character as Ranka ) and Shizuru being less psycho and more the calm lady of war. All in all, a much superior setting. As for the story, also much better than the "highschool comedy, then abrupt shift to tragedy fight anime" Mai-Hime.


I shall kindly step back from the comment, and let Wolfie deal with you

- Tak
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Old 2009-01-04, 11:19   Link #1006
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I shall kindly step back from the comment, and let Wolfie deal with you

- Tak
Sure, I can defend my preferences just fine against everybody. Have a go at it if you want, too.
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Old 2009-01-04, 15:45   Link #1007
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Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
Actually Ranka wanted to be singer like Sheryl and be able to emotionally move people with her songs, she didn't desire to be the savior of Frontier but she took it so she could save her friends and of course Alto himself.
That doesn't really matter what matters is the fact that she still volunteered to do it, and if you volunteer to do something then it is your duty to do it. It becomes your responsibility, the same responsibility Ranka lacked. She wasn't forced into the role she could have said no.
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Old 2009-01-04, 22:57   Link #1008
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Originally Posted by herbert View Post
I don't see how singing for the dead has anything to do with savior of Frontier. It simply a emotional need of people, but she still refuses.

Above is one counter-example to your argument, but it's not very important because I think your take of this issue is bit too one-sided.

Ranka wants to be a singer, a professional one, thus she need heed what is asked for being a professional singer. Like Mikhail points out to her in ep 5, being a singer is not equal to "can sing" or "love to sing". There are something a singer must do regardless the singer's own preference.

Please stop saying Ranka accepts savior role has nothing to do with her dream. It give her fame, and she enjoys a lot when she sings to crowds. It does make her dream true. Denial of Ranka's failure is like a new graduate finds his job is not what he has imagined thus believe absenteeism can be justified.
Well now, I say 2 sentences and all of a sudden I get bombarded by you guys. I was talking about her role to sing to distract the Vajra and break their formations in order to kill them. As for her singing for the dead, she just couldn't sing, she was going to but her emotions didn't allow her to sing, whether you agree with me or not, this is what I believe. If I remember correctly in Episode 5 when Michel said those words, Ranka's determination proved him wrong by the end of that episode.

It's amazing how I get people on these threads telling me not to tell someone what to say and what not to say when the same thing happens to me. Whatever it is you hate about Ranka is fine but like I've said before her role as a savior was not initially what she desired, she ended up with the role after getting Alto's consent. Now if you disagree with my statement then that's also fine, but my opinion is my opinion just like you have yours, I won't tell you otherwise. You say she ran away from her problems, I say she confronted them. Remember that before she left her intention was to have Alto come with her so she didn't necessarily run away at least in my perspective.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Becoming a professional singer comes with responsibilities, I don't know why it is so hard for some of you to accept that as fact. Fame comes with strings attached. It is not an easy job being a professional, Sheryl realized that, Ranka never did.
I never denied the fact that becoming a singer comes with responsibilities but it's not like everyone that can sing and wants to have a career in that has the ability to stop an alien race from destroying humanity. That's why I said what I said. Sheryl is a professional yes and she's had more experience in her lifetime in that department but Ranka was new to the whole thing and everything came to her at once. Remember that Ranka was being used by Frontier as a tool and even Sheryl admitted that if you're going to use someone, than do it coldly. My point is that she wanted to be a singer not a tool for destroying an alien race.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
You say she did not desire to become the savior, but then she volunteered many times, to play that role. Nobody forced her into this, she chose to accept it. She participated in charities, she sang during battles, and she done other things that gave everyone else a false impression, including Alto. Moreover, she thoroughly enjoyed the fame. Yet, when the time came for her to accept her responsibilities, she bolted. Therefore, to counter your statement:

she didn't desire to be the savior of Frontier but she took it so she could save her friends and of course Alto himself
Before we move on here, I agree that nobody forced her and that she did volunteer, but she did it for the people of Frontier and more importantly her friends, the people she cares about. If you ask where I get this from, well I recall a scene where she was tied up by Graces control so-to-speak, where she said that she wanted to go back to her friends and be with them again, if she didn't care then why would she think about that?

Why is it that you envision Ranka as such a distasteful character? False impressions? No the things that she did weren't false impressions, she did it for others not herself so I really don't see how she gave false impressions. If she were running away, she would have never gone to the Vajra home planet, Ranka would have just gone into space and looked for another planet where she could start a new life, that's running away in my opinion. Instead she confronted the Vajra not only to bring Ai-kun back but to stop the war because she felt guilty that her singing brought the Vajra to Frontier. She knew very well because she sang and brought the Vajra to Island 3 in order to detonate that bomb.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
No, I doubt she cared for her friends. None of her friends and family, including Ozma, measures up to Alto in terms of importance. The pivotal moment of episode 21 proved it, where she made one of the gravest decision in the series. She left the Frontier mainly because her puppy love went unanswered, not because she suddenly had this lofty ideal of world-peace. You wish to excuse her from blame thinking she had a higher goal, that is fine, but despite her alleged good-motives, you can never deny the fact that her execution was utterly flawed and irresponsible.

And don't tell me there was no better way to handle her situation.

- Tak (And being a kid can only go so far as an excuse)
I would like to know why you think that Ranka doesn't care about her friends and Ozma (which is her only familiy, at least in Frontier.) She wouldn't cry for Ozma if she didn't care about him and like I said before, there is a scene where she thinks about her friends so I do think she cares about them enough.

Ok yes she did leave but not because her love went unanswered, I don't understand where you get that notion from but if she did leave for that reason, than why did she initially ask Alto to come with her? I mean if that were the reason, than she would have just gone straight to Brera right away. Honestly, if you believe that she's the worst character in the series, then so be it but I would appreciate it if some of you would stop saying that I'm denying things because I'm not, I'm expressing my opinions that are equal to yours.
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Old 2009-01-04, 23:19   Link #1009
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First of all, can we stop with this all-in-bold letters way of posting? It comes across as shouting to some folks, and it's just as bad as writing smilies that can be interpreted as condescending.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
I never denied the fact that becoming a singer comes with responsibilities but it's not like everyone that can sing and wants to have a career in that has the ability to stop an alien race from destroying humanity.
Just one thing... What you say here is true, but it's also true that Ranka's singing does have the power to save humanity. You can't deny that no matter what you think of the character, whether you hate or love her. She's specifically selected for this purpose, and she does realize the significance of it. I would find it troubling if she didn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeX-kun
Before we move on here, I agree that nobody forced her and that she did volunteer, but she did it for the people of Frontier and more importantly her friends, the people she cares about. If you ask where I get this from, well I recall a scene where she was tied up by Graces control so-to-speak, where she said that she wanted to go back to her friends and be with them again, if she didn't care then why would she think about that?
Actually, while she does think of returning to her friends (which is natural for anyone, considering that she's currently in the custody of Grace), her main reason for singing is Alto. Alto. The audience, the fame, the glamor of it all, all of which are only second to that one reason.

That is why after she sees him with Sheryl up on the roof, her song fails to get the right reaction from the Vajra because of the emotional despair she experiences upon seeing them together. Right then and there, she feels that her main reason for singing is all dashed into pieces on the roof.
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Old 2009-01-04, 23:48   Link #1010
Tak
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Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
Well now, I say 2 sentences and all of a sudden I get bombarded by you guys.
Hey, post a comment, then prepare to be scrutinized. If I managed to wade through pages after pages of text in the past, then you had better learn to do the same. This is a discussion forum, accept it or leave it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
Remember that Ranka was being used by Frontier as a tool and even Sheryl admitted that if you're going to use someone, than do it coldly. My point is that she wanted to be a singer not a tool for destroying an alien race.
Again, Ranka fully recognized her situation. She knew exactly why she entered battle, and she knew exactly what she was being used for. She volunteered for the role, while providing a false impression for everyone on-board the Frontier, including her friends, family and Alto.

It does not matter if she was being used as a tool, she volunteered, remember? If she didn't want to be used as a tool, then she should have never pursuit that dream in the first place! Hell, she became a tool all for the wrong reasons! In reality, she sang for one person. Is that so hard to articulate? She did not suddenly get a big change of actions out of the blue, her actions for leaving was directly related to seeing Alto on the roof, and later being objectified by Alto (something Alto himself admitted later).

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
Before we move on here, I agree that nobody forced her and that she did volunteer, but she did it for the people of Frontier and more importantly her friends, the people she cares about.
No, she did it for one person in the universe, Alto. Fact is, she did not stay for her family and friends. When Alto proved deaf to her voices, she did not choose family and friends over him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
If you ask where I get this from, well I recall a scene where she was tied up by Graces control so-to-speak, where she said that she wanted to go back to her friends and be with them again, if she didn't care then why would she think about that?
Because she was scared being around Grace.

And if she really did care, why did she refuse to sing during the funeral? At least one person she knew died, another in emergency care, but at the end, what did she do? She refused to comfort the people when they needed her the most.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
Why is it that you envision Ranka as such a distasteful character? False impressions? No the things that she did weren't false impressions, she did it for others not herself so I really don't see how she gave false impressions.
You are putting words in my mouth. I don't find her distasteful, I find her childish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
If she were running away, she would have never gone to the Vajra home planet, Ranka would have just gone into space and looked for another planet where she could start a new life, that's running away in my opinion.
You have just provided one of the absolute dumbest attempt to reason Ranka's actions. But if you want me to spell it out for you specifically, I will do just that:

Ranka went to the Vajra planet was an attempt to excuse herself from the meddlesome affairs on Frontier. Instead of confronting the problems of reality, dealing with the responsibilities of her role, dealing with millions of people placed under the shadows of an imminent threat (which only she could save), dealing with a relationship she longed for, dealing with her relationship with Ozma, she chose an emotionally non-responsive organism as an outlet of her problems. Instead of facing the immediate, she escaped and put it all behind her. Yes, she ran the fuck away. She wanted to run away the very moment she refused to sing for the people who died during the Vajra assault. Oh yes, she cared for them very much.... uh huh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
Instead she confronted the Vajra not only to bring Ai-kun back but to stop the war because she felt guilty that her singing brought the Vajra to Frontier. She knew very well because she sang and brought the Vajra to Island 3 in order to detonate that bomb.
Hello, newsflash, the fact is, she did not stop the war until the entire Frontier fleet went out to get her and after many had died for her sake. Why don't you just accept the fact that her execution was utterly flawed and irresponsible. You and I both know that there are better ways to achieve her alleged lofty ideal. Instead of going alone with Berera, she could have easily notified Ozma beforehand, whom btw, was escaping Frontier as well, and had an entire carrier with him!

But she did not, and she somehow naively believed that she could take on an entire fucking world by herself! Seriously, did she really think she'd be able to take on an entire race of enemies behind enemy lines?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
[B]I would like to know why you think that Ranka doesn't care about her friends and Ozma (which is her only familiy, at least in Frontier.) She wouldn't cry for Ozma if she didn't care about him and like I said before, there is a scene where she thinks about her friends so I do think she cares about them enough.
If she genuinely cared for her friends instead of thinking them as her comfort-source, then maybe she would have stayed and help to salvage the damage caused by the Vajra, which she was partially responsible for. She could first start by comforting the people on Frontier during the funeral.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
Ok yes she did leave but not because her love went unanswered, I don't understand where you get that notion from but if she did leave for that reason, than why did she initially ask Alto to come with her?
And I don't understand why you do not get that notion.

She did not ask Alto to come with her. She said she really wanted Alto to come with her, just as she said that she loved him. That is not asking. Never mind the fact that she said both sentences in past tense. It was the only moment where she finally mustered enough guts to tell Alto how she felt. She thought she should let Alto know this before she took off.

Then she left, precisely because she knew damn well Alto would not go with her, and as it turns out, Alto did not go with her, nor did he want to go with her. Is that so hard to understand? Once again, this decision would not have come to fruition had Alto actually not objectified her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
I mean if that were the reason, than she would have just gone straight to Brera right away.
ROFL. She did. She gone to Berera first before she confronted Alto again! Hell, I am also betting that going to Vajra planet was Berera's idea, Ranka was simply being a reactionary, producing a knee-jerk reaction to every situation like she usually does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
Honestly, if you believe that she's the worst character in the series
Again, you are putting words in my mouth.

- Tak
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Last edited by Tak; 2009-01-05 at 03:12.
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Old 2009-01-05, 01:15   Link #1011
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Whoa.

Well all I can say is this...

From episode 1, Ranka was a child. Throughout the series, she was still a child. Final episode, she remained a child. That pretty much sums her up.
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Old 2009-01-05, 06:56   Link #1012
Father Hentai
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Whoa.

Well all I can say is this...

From episode 1, Ranka was a child. Throughout the series, she was still a child. Final episode, she remained a child. That pretty much sums her up.
Guess what? She's a child...

Before I start replying to what has been written by Tak and Dex-kun the last two pages I'll review Macross F first. Just some small preparations before I get smacked by Tak's replies
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Old 2009-01-05, 07:01   Link #1013
Natsuki Hyuga
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Originally Posted by Father Hentai View Post
Guess what? She's a child...
Eeh... 16 Years old is still a child? I thought she should have passed that already...

Ranka should have already been a teenager, not a child anymore
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Old 2009-01-05, 07:01   Link #1014
raile
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Originally Posted by Father Hentai View Post
Guess what? She's a child...
Perhaps, I should have been more specific. Her personality is that of a child (and I mean a little girl in a candy shop kind of child). However that is usually excusable in a start of the series as character development takes place later on and we see a certain change in the character. Sadly, Ranka remained as she was in the start of the series...only she became a songstress. That's how I see it. Eat it or...well don't eat it.

Edit: 16 is considered being a teenager, am I right?
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Old 2009-01-05, 07:06   Link #1015
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Who cares about Ranka!? I can't believe Magnus thinks Otome is better than Hime!

*neg reps magnus*
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Old 2009-01-05, 07:21   Link #1016
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Originally Posted by raile View Post
Perhaps, I should have been more specific. Her personality is that of a child (and I mean a little girl in a candy shop kind of child). However that is usually excusable in a start of the series as character development takes place later on and we see a certain change in the character. Sadly, Ranka remained as she was in the start of the series...only she became a songstress. That's how I see it. Eat it or...well don't eat it.

Edit: 16 is considered being a teenager, am I right?
Teen are between 13 and 19. But from definitions you can also use child for persons in teenage age or youth. Btw. this is written even in the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child.

Spoiler for CRC:


And I meant child in teen stage. If there has been any misunderstandings put these on my credits.

And yes, Teens are spoiled, do not have any manners, are disrespectful and more worse: you really can' t control them
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Old 2009-01-05, 07:48   Link #1017
Natsuki Hyuga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Hentai View Post
Teen are between 13 and 19. But from definitions you can also use child for persons in teenage age or youth. Btw. this is written even in the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child.

Spoiler for CRC:


And I meant child in teen stage. If there has been any misunderstandings put these on my credits.
But yes, there is also one thing that differentiate a child-like personality and teenagers, and that is to be able to learn to take responsibilities for their own self. Minmei did realize her own "irresponsibility" after being slapped by Hikaru, am I right? Ranka did not. Oh, and Minmei is also a teenager or in your case a child
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Old 2009-01-05, 08:37   Link #1018
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And don't forget some people think puberty isn't an issue at 16. That little tidbit always cracks me up, whenever I remember it.
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Old 2009-01-05, 09:53   Link #1019
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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Who cares about Ranka!? I can't believe Magnus thinks Otome is better than Hime!

*neg reps magnus*
Sheesh, can anybody explain why they prefer Mai-Hime over Mai-Otome? To me, the general structure of the second show is much superior to the first, and the characters come off more likeable, too ( except Mai, who is a non-factor in Otome, quite ably replaced by Arika ). Also, the Hime storyline is pretty much done by now, while the Otome story still has future potential.

Also, I like the robes of the Otome much better than the childs of the Himes. Oh, and almost no Mikoto in Otome... a huge factor in favour of Otome.
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Old 2009-01-05, 10:21   Link #1020
Father Hentai
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Originally Posted by Natsuki Hyuga View Post
But yes, there is also one thing that differentiate a child-like personality and teenagers, and that is to be able to learn to take responsibilities for their own self. Minmei did realize her own "irresponsibility" after being slapped by Hikaru, am I right? Ranka did not. Oh, and Minmei is also a teenager or in your case a child
Minmei has another characteristics than Ranka. Don't put both into the same pot in terms of youth behavior.

I am not firm with your country laws but from where I live Ranka can not taken into full responsibility as she is not recognized as fully adulted.

Btw. being a teen is a time where you still enjoy youth without taking full responsibilities so you are able to grow gently. Responsibility comes from itself.
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