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Old 2009-01-05, 10:31   Link #1021
Urei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BetoJR View Post
And don't forget some people think puberty isn't an issue at 16. That little tidbit always cracks me up, whenever I remember it.
Well, different people age differently. The moral structure is inherited from the father and the emotional structure from the mother, in most cases. Ranka has a solid moral structure though her lack of proper emotional development hinders her judgement and makes her hesitant. Normally around year 16 or 17 a person develops a dismay for the authoritative figure because of the lack of understanding. Though Ozma with all of his manliness tried his best to rise her he never did a good job as a mother. It's no wonder Ranka is still a child emotionally. She'll grow up to be on par with the current Sheryl in 5 or 6 years.

Please don't treat it as a flame on Rankas account. It's my job and forte to do this kind of thing so it's purely objective.
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Old 2009-01-05, 10:48   Link #1022
Natsuki Hyuga
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Originally Posted by Father Hentai View Post

I am not firm with your country laws but from where I live Ranka can not taken into full responsibility as she is not recognized as fully adulted.
That's why I said "to learn" Teenager phase is the time where a child is growing up to be an adult, a time where he or she will have to realize that he or she can't live in their own personal enjoyment.

Of course, a teenager is not an adult. It is just that people don't think them as a "little child" who can be excused from every of his/her naivety and selfishness anymore. They are still a child in adult's eye, but most of them (teenagers) will realize that the world is not revolving around them anymore. This is where teenagers and a child is differentiated

Ranka, while initially is shown to have the rebellious phase of teenagers nowadays, actually displays more child-like personality than a teenager's personality at certain point, especially when Ep. 21 commences, when she thought only of her own wanting Alto to come with her. It is a selfish desire mixed with naivety-a child-like emotion rather than a teenager's emotion (Of course, naivety and selfishness applies to a lot of teenagers' trait sometimes. But Ranka in the latter part of Macross Frontier does display this a lot and seems to hardly think about the others feeling, hence the child-like emotion comment )

Quote:
Btw. being a teen is a time where you still enjoy youth without taking full responsibilities so you are able to grow gently. Responsibility comes from itself.
Responsibilities come when you are faced with problems that is coming along from your own choices, whether you have already thought the choices hardly enough or not. It's not the case that they have to fully take the responsibilities, but try to think about how to deal with the problems and don't run away from it-to face it no matter how harsh the problem is.

Assuming responsibility is not a direct process-you will learn it along with simply enjoying your youth too
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Old 2009-01-05, 11:17   Link #1023
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Hi all....2009 has arrived and everything is still the same in Ranka thread...on the other hand, based on activity in this Ranka thread, I assume everyone is doing ok and I am glad to see that XD

I swear I saw ppl critizing Ranka about not caring her friends yesterday and today's discussion has become Ranka's not assuming her responsibility...I can't keep up lol and I see Ranka's "crimelist" is further expanding to the whole new level

Anyway just a few point, as I said in the past, Ranka at the end has taken her responsiblity...she uses her power to the fullest and saves everyone...why no one has taken this into account as Ranka has embraced her responsibility fully at the end?? In the end, we see Ranka acts immediately and press all the right buttons but no one mentions that and insists that she is still a child...

Another thing is I see ppl using Ranka "not moving" when Nanasse got hit as an example to say Ranka not caring her friend?? Sure, Sheryl did the right thing to treat Nanasse, but you can't use Sheryl's example to suggest Ranka not caring her friend...PPl feel stunned in an emergency situation...You can say Sheryl handles emergency situation better...and at the end, Ranka cures Sheryl lol..isn't that the sign she cares ppl other than Alto?? If she doesn't care ppl other than Alto as ppl suggested, then Ranka wouldn't even know Sheryl had a disease and cured her...(oh yeah, ppl also use Ranka's flashback to say Ranka only thinks about Alto in an emergency situation..but I guess in anime, ppl who lost the memory simply cannot control when the memory rushes back??)

that's about it...just my two cents...happy 2009 ppl
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Old 2009-01-05, 13:15   Link #1024
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Originally Posted by Natsuki Hyuga View Post

Of course, a teenager is not an adult. It is just that people don't think them as a "little child" who can be excused from every of his/her naivety and selfishness anymore. They are still a child in adult's eye, but most of them (teenagers) will realize that the world is not revolving around them anymore. This is where teenagers and a child is differentiated
Considering what todays psychology has to say about teenagers it's just the opposite It's only around 19-21 when the social and moral way of acting crystallizes to the point where a person can be said to have entered the young adult age. Most of the factors of personality develop till the late age so Ranka's way of behaving at her current state is quite understandable. This is a typical way of development and god help it not the only one.

From my point of view Ranka's just emotionally underdeveloped. It's somewhat not her fault. It's her fault she refuses to grow up in the world she was faced with though.
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Old 2009-01-05, 13:47   Link #1025
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Originally Posted by Father Hentai View Post
Minmei has another characteristics than Ranka. Don't put both into the same pot in terms of youth behavior.

I am not firm with your country laws but from where I live Ranka can not taken into full responsibility as she is not recognized as fully adulted.

Btw. being a teen is a time where you still enjoy youth without taking full responsibilities so you are able to grow gently. Responsibility comes from itself.
Minmay and Ranka are indeed different from one another, that is true. But comparing them can't really be avoided. The fact that Minmay goes through something similar to Ranka in DYRL is the main reason, and in the end it isn't really to Ranka's favor when such a comparison is inevitably made especially when her actions can also be juxtaposed alongside the other idol, Sheryl. Now, if one hasn't seen DYRL, the only character that she can be compared to is Sheryl.

It isn't about determining development during puberty, or analyzing youth behavior (seriously, we're talking about these now?), nor about the legal definition of what constitutes a child from a teenager. I won't claim to be an expert on such technical topics, but I can understand a story. It's about actions, choices and character and plot. And in that line, Minmay and Ranka can be compared.

Quote:
Originally Posted by justavisitor
...and at the end, Ranka cures Sheryl lol..isn't that the sign she cares ppl other than Alto?? If she doesn't care ppl other than Alto as ppl suggested,
She cares for her friends too, of course (even though she fails in showing that in some critical moments). But with regard to her reasons for singing, it's all about Alto. Everything else comes second to that. That's basically part of the actual plot. You're arguing about two different things.
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Old 2009-01-05, 14:22   Link #1026
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I am not arguing different things...I made it clear in my post that I am only going to say something about Ranka not caring others and not assuming responsibilites....those two were the focus point in yesterday's and today's early morning debate....as I said in my last post, the focus of Ranka debate keeps changing so I can only comment on what I saw yesterday and today's early morning....

I haven't read the reasons for singing argument yet, so I am in no position to debate in regard to this area...
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Old 2009-01-05, 14:32   Link #1027
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Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
Sheesh, can anybody explain why they prefer Mai-Hime over Mai-Otome? To me, the general structure of the second show is much superior to the first, and the characters come off more likeable, too ( except Mai, who is a non-factor in Otome, quite ably replaced by Arika ). Also, the Hime storyline is pretty much done by now, while the Otome story still has future potential.
Well, I will keep this as short as possible because this is a Macross forum. Anyway, the reason is simple, really... one word: drama. Mai Hime had a good human drama, and far more convincing as well. Take Shizuru for example, she being a HiME was a surprise. She did not have much screen time in the beginning of the show until much later, and I certainly did not expect her to be as important. What made her situation so much more intense than her Otome counterpart was that she had a huge transformation of character in HiME, broken toys hidden in the attic, only to be forced to confront them later on. In Otome, she was just perfect and flawless. That is just one example. I can list many others, but over all, Otome's human drama falls short somewhat.

Certainly, Otome has a huge potential, even more so than HiME, but I won't use that fact alone as a gauge to compare the qualities of the two respective shows.

- Tak (On the other hand, I really like Mai. She was a down to earth, straightforward woman. While similar to Arika in many ways, she was no where near as naive)
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Old 2009-01-05, 14:46   Link #1028
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Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
I haven't read the reasons for singing argument yet, so I am in no position to debate in regard to this area...
What's to argue about? It's practically said in the story. Ranka says it herself.
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Old 2009-01-05, 15:09   Link #1029
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lol, I am not involved in this reason for singing argument...I was only saying I talked about ppl saying Ranka not caring others and not assuming responibility..then you switched it to reason for singing and said i aruged two different things..I clarifed again that I was not arguing that reason for singing...

Now I say it again I am not involved to this reasons for singing argument...it seems you are arguing that "reason for singing" to other ppl??Good, go on without me plz...however if you argue with other, you always expect ppl to argue back...

Once again, for the n times, I am not arguing this "reasons for singing" lol...keep the ammo to your target plz

I hope I make it clear to everyone XD
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Old 2009-01-05, 15:21   Link #1030
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Well, I will keep this as short as possible because this is a Macross forum. Anyway, the reason is simple, really... one word: drama. Mai Hime had a good human drama, and far more convincing as well. Take Shizuru for example, she being a HiME was a surprise. She did not have much screen time in the beginning of the show until much later, and I certainly did not expect her to be as important. What made her situation so much more intense than her Otome counterpart was that she had a huge transformation of character in HiME, broken toys hidden in the attic, only to be forced to confront them later on. In Otome, she was just perfect and flawless. That is just one example. I can list many others, but over all, Otome's human drama falls short somewhat.

Certainly, Otome has a huge potential, even more so than HiME, but I won't use that fact alone as a gauge to compare the qualities of the two respective shows.

- Tak (On the other hand, I really like Mai. She was a down to earth, straightforward woman. While similar to Arika in many ways, she was no where near as naive)
Ill take this to PM, no need for us to go all out OT.
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Old 2009-01-05, 15:24   Link #1031
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Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
lol, I am not involved in this reason for singing argument...I was only saying I talked about ppl saying Ranka not caring others and not assuming responibility..then you switched it to reason for singing and said i aruged two different things..I clarifed again that I was not arguing that reason for singing...

Now I say it again I am not involved to this reasons for singing argument...it seems you are arguing that "reason for singing" to other ppl??Good, go on without me plz...however if you argue with other, you always expect ppl to argue back...

Once again, for the n times, I am not arguing this "reasons for singing" lol...keep the ammo to your target plz

I hope I make it clear to everyone XD
Um, what? Jesus Christ...

Did I sound that antagonistic to you? I wasn't even going against your clarification of where you stood on the post I commented about, but was rather asking a normal question about what you said in the end... as in, I myself don't see the point of arguing about it.

And for your info, I didn't bring about the discussion of Ranka's singing. Someone posted about it, and I commented about it based on what actually happens in the show.

I guess it really has become this bad (or ridiculous) in this side of the forums, huh? No my friend, you can keep all the ammo to yourself.
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Old 2009-01-05, 15:41   Link #1032
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Hope I didn't sound that antagonistic to you either...it was like I used an angry voice to read your sentence...now I try read that "what's to argue to about" in a slower, more peaceful tone and it feels somewhat differently XD

So in your opinion, you don't see the point in arguing this "singing", which is fine, while in my opinion, I haven't even read the argument, I would rather let ppl (you said someone else brings this up??) discuss it...I guess the difference starts here...from my point, it's already bad enough to discuss the same issue over and over again, and it's even worse to defend or get involved in something I didn't even participate.

As I said, when I read that phrase "what's to argue about"...it seemed like you immediately shut me down for going there, which I don't even participate....now you suggested you were merely asking a normal question...so I read it again and the phrase feels a bit differently now..I hope no harm is done..and business as usual
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To all old and new Sheryl fans:
I am a Ranka fan and I have significant experience in defending various "crimes" committed by Ranka, from her evil plan to terminate human races, to feeding inapporiate food to unknown lifeforms. If you think you find "new" charges aginst Ranka and you are interested, or you care to see how a particular Ranka fan would respond, please feel free to check my previous comment. There is a good chance that I have answered a similiar issue. And of course, my viewpoints do not necessarily represent other perspectivs from numerous Ranka fans in this planet
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Old 2009-01-05, 16:03   Link #1033
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Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
Anyway just a few point, as I said in the past, Ranka at the end has taken her responsiblity...she uses her power to the fullest and saves everyone...why no one has taken this into account as Ranka has embraced her responsibility fully at the end?? In the end, we see Ranka acts immediately and press all the right buttons but no one mentions that and insists that she is still a child...
Watching Ranka on Frontier is nearly as frustrating as watching Shinji on Evangelion and especially, End of Evangelion. Both characters would prefer to do something else while people around them are getting massacred. Even so, Shinji finally gets it, while Ranka took a step further backwards, and Shinji always had less of a reason to assume his role than Ranka. Yet, Ranka was persistent in maintaining her naivety throughout the entire show. Its no surprise that when Kawamori commented about Ranka's character, he stated quite specifically that Ranka's life-long lesson from now on would be to break through her personal bubble, to try and comprehend her surroundings.

You say Ranka assumed responsibility, but her responsibility at the end of the show was not something we were focusing upon. Rather, we focused upon her choices and heeding the responsibilities for those choices made in the middle of the show. Besides, when she finally heeded her alleged responsibility, many people already died for her sake, which greatly reduced the value of that responsibility. Its like saying if a dictator was caught and tried after committing the murder of millions, he'd be executed. Yet, by that time, millions of people already perished, and they aren't coming back. So while the said dictator assumes the responsibility of genocide, its not really helping the situation of those who lost their loved ones as the deed is already done.

Anyway, the point I am making is that time does not stop for anyone. Unfortunately for Ranka, she thought it stopped for her.

- Tak
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Old 2009-01-05, 16:10   Link #1034
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Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
So in your opinion, you don't see the point in arguing this "singing", which is fine, while in my opinion, I haven't even read the argument, I would rather let ppl (you said someone else brings this up??) discuss it...I guess the difference starts here...from my point, it's already bad enough to discuss the same issue over and over again, and it's even worse to defend or get involved in something I didn't even participate.
Dex-kun's post brought up Ranka's motivations for singing. I just pointed out that an episode already reveals that to us. Ranka's chooses to take up the responsibilities in order to sing for Alto. There's nothing to contend with something like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by justavisitor
As I said, when I read that phrase "what's to argue about"...it seemed like you immediately shut me down for going there, which I don't even participate....now you suggested you were merely asking a normal question...so I read it again and the phrase feels a bit differently now..I hope no harm is done..and business as usual
Yeah, sure thing.
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Old 2009-01-05, 16:21   Link #1035
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I understand what you are saying Tak...but from my point of view, she has been trying to assume her responsiblity at the very beginning..her song works till ep 19, and everyone treats her as a saviour at that time. You may question her motive is only for Alto...that's all right, I see many ppl talked about this also...but the point is that till ep 19, she has helped macross frontier tremdously...her song doesn't work in 19, and then she goes out the journey with her brother, got controlled by grace, broke free and ended the final fight

So I think Ranka (from human standard in MF) has done very well right till ep 19...I look at the span from ep 19 to 25 as she tries to make her power to the best use

Your example of dictator is a bit extreme in my opinion because Ranka never thought of killing ppl in MF...the closest examlpe I can think of is USA joins battle right at the middle of WWI and WWII (I don't think that is a good example either, but that's the closest I can do) Millions of ppl have died before USA joins and both war might not take that long to end had USA joined sooner..but war is war, and ppl will die from war...at the end, well USA still contributed quite a lot to end the WWII (I know history is your things Tak, be lenient on me in history lesson plz)

Very nice to read your opinion
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I am a Ranka fan and I have significant experience in defending various "crimes" committed by Ranka, from her evil plan to terminate human races, to feeding inapporiate food to unknown lifeforms. If you think you find "new" charges aginst Ranka and you are interested, or you care to see how a particular Ranka fan would respond, please feel free to check my previous comment. There is a good chance that I have answered a similiar issue. And of course, my viewpoints do not necessarily represent other perspectivs from numerous Ranka fans in this planet
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Old 2009-01-05, 16:52   Link #1036
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Loop-de-loop-de-loop-de-loop... and around the merry-go-round we go, again...
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Old 2009-01-05, 16:57   Link #1037
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Originally Posted by BetoJR View Post
Loop-de-loop-de-loop-de-loop... and around the merry-go-round we go, again...
Ah, but this year will be different. I will be sure to add Evangelion references to all such posts...

MUWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

- Tak
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Old 2009-01-05, 17:00   Link #1038
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You do that. It'll probably help bring up my immunity to the levels it should be when forgottendiary-sama gets back here.
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Old 2009-01-05, 17:00   Link #1039
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lol you guys started it...well actually for year 2009, how about use another thread to discuss? like Sheryl thread XD? or Sheryl fanclub
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To all old and new Sheryl fans:
I am a Ranka fan and I have significant experience in defending various "crimes" committed by Ranka, from her evil plan to terminate human races, to feeding inapporiate food to unknown lifeforms. If you think you find "new" charges aginst Ranka and you are interested, or you care to see how a particular Ranka fan would respond, please feel free to check my previous comment. There is a good chance that I have answered a similiar issue. And of course, my viewpoints do not necessarily represent other perspectivs from numerous Ranka fans in this planet
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Old 2009-01-05, 17:02   Link #1040
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or the Movie thread :P
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