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View Poll Results: Clannad ~After Story~ - Episode 13 Rating
Perfect 10 67 59.29%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 34 30.09%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 8 7.08%
7 out of 10 : Good 3 2.65%
6 out of 10 : Average 1 0.88%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 113. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-01-09, 08:05   Link #21
Ottocycle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momosan View Post
The batting scenes I actually enjoyed since it's what Tomoya's character is all about. The graduation scene was wasted airtime though. Everyone dropped their schedules to stand around and listen to Nagisa explain the obvious? Seemed like more should've happened in that scene.
Blame it on culture differences. Japanese culture has a certain fixation with the symbolic. We aren't the intended demographic, so there you have it.
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Old 2009-01-09, 08:27   Link #22
Momosan
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What is the symbollism that I missed? I assume you mean that a graduation ceremony is important in Japan. That I can understand. Gathering everyone I can understand. Telling everyone a story that they are already familiar with? That I don't understand. It's an anime, they have free reign of creative license. I was really expecting something more emotional than Nagisa talking about being sick and how she'll miss school.

I find it difficult to believe that the Japanese would find that scene emotionally involving, but I don't know Japanese intricacies like that so I could very well be wrong.
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Old 2009-01-09, 08:40   Link #23
Klashikari
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I wonder if you did pay attention to what Nagisa became over the course of the past...35 episodes.
She has so many hardship in finally getting graduated for the year she had to do thrice. Not only that, but her efforts were quite limited and she were "literally stuck" in time, as she couldn't go on. (Reference to her question "do you like school", with things that cannot stay the same, back in episode 1).

The whole speech itself has quite a symbolism how she was able to go on, thanks to Tomoya and everyone else. She could enjoy her third grade and finally get herself in society for good.

The whole graduation itself exposes her feelings and has a representation of how her life went. Some people would brush off as it might be just a sheet of paper to receive at a nameless graduation ceremony.
But for Nagisa, it was something she had it quite at heart, despite doing this thrice (and considering the reasons why she failed twice were out of her own responsibility, it adds more bitter and unfair flavor, yet she still face what she has to do, without lamenting or going frustrated over it).

This is the reason why Tomoya prepared such graduation: Nagisa is probably the one who wished to be graduated the most. After so many difficult time, she managed to do that, but fail to have a proper ceremony. A way to express and "reward" her resolve and also enjoy what she couldn't do thrice, with everyone around her.

That is probably one of the most important part of her life, and Tomoya and the rest figured out that much. I fail to see how this graduation was "meaningless", due to the high symbolism shared by all attendants.

Last edited by Klashikari; 2009-01-09 at 09:21. Reason: whoa... what a typo... indeed, 45 is completely on the left field
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Old 2009-01-09, 09:18   Link #24
Ottocycle
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35, Klash, 35. But anyway, that was a good post.

Also, what's a ceremony without the companions who have gone through the road known as high school with her? She certainly didn't complete her attendance for that year without anyone's support.

And finally,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momosan View Post
I find it difficult to believe that the Japanese would find that scene emotionally involving, but I don't know Japanese intricacies like that so I could very well be wrong.
You're finding it difficult to believe because, you are putting the Japanese audience in your shoes, and not yourself in theirs. Japanese society, though renowned for being efficient, should not be considered utilitarian by any standard.
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Old 2009-01-09, 09:26   Link #25
velvet
"with you, happiness"
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
I believe my heart skipped its regular beating at least twice,

- Please let me take care of Nagisa! -

I braced myself for the impact, and it simply had no effect. Once again damn*t negau Ga kanau Basho ni.

And the moment I hear, Okazaki Nagisa.
Life is beautiful.

Omedetto Nagisa, you were the girl standing at the bottom of the hill.
And you fought really hard.

Still waiting for
Spoiler:

Hoping for it at the next episode.
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Old 2009-01-09, 09:35   Link #26
velvet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momosan View Post
What is the symbollism that I missed? I assume you mean that a graduation ceremony is important in Japan. That I can understand. Gathering everyone I can understand. Telling everyone a story that they are already familiar with? That I don't understand. It's an anime, they have free reign of creative license. I was really expecting something more emotional than Nagisa talking about being sick and how she'll miss school.
I find it difficult to believe that the Japanese would find that scene emotionally involving, but I don't know Japanese intricacies like that so I could very well be wrong.
She was talking about all the suffering she had to go through in her 5 years at high school.

Who cares?

What I care is the fact, that, despite all that, she still loved the 5 years she went through, no matter the pain.

- ... that there is nothing that can replace my school life here.-

- ... it's a school that I love so much. Because it's the place I've worked so hard at.-

Now let's see. This could be done without Nagisa re telling the whole story of her hardships, true.
Any other suggestions?
Anything else would be fine as long as it ends with that lines above.
Yep, the important fact that Nagisa, despite her pain, never regretted a single seconds in her school life.

And what's with the title?
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Old 2009-01-09, 09:51   Link #27
Kristen
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Best episode of the entire series. Only one that comes close is season 1 episode 14.

Initially, they have my favorite scene from the game, where it's Akio v. Tomoya. And they did the silence after Tomoya asked for Nagisa's hand in marriage. But, I was angry that they didn't keep Akio's line, my favorite in the game "Idiot, I told you I'd grant you whatever you want. I agreed the moment you asked. Get off the ground." Ah well, can't have everything.
And then they did the graduation, which I was surprised at, but they still managed to do it very well.

But, and episode that got me choked up twice deserves a 10/10. Unfortunately they did not do a new ED, so now the ED is going to get really awkward, IMHO.
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Old 2009-01-09, 10:21   Link #28
Momosan
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Did the people around her doubt the fact that she liked school? I don't think any of the characters suspected her of resenting school seeing as how her parents were fine with her not completing it (IIRC). The audience should've had the ability to understand what was said without it being said at all. Spoon feeding it to me kinda ruined the entire thing.

Also, I never said it was meaningless. I said it was wasted airtime. I understood the point of the scene. That doesn't mean it realized its full potential. After watching it I was like, "What, that's it?"
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Old 2009-01-09, 10:41   Link #29
Solafighter
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Finaly episode 13~~~~
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Old 2009-01-09, 10:41   Link #30
Proto
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Just think of it as a long, yet honest and heartful way of thanking all the people who made her graduation possible.

As Tomoya put it later: And with this, Nagisa's long, long school life finally finished. You ought to put some kind on ribbon on that. Nagisa's speech served that function.
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Old 2009-01-09, 11:01   Link #31
MeoTwister5
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An excellent episode, but I'll probably be the dissenter here and say this isn't the best episode of the series to date, maybe around the third best definitely in my opinion. The best one is still episode 12 of AS.

And moving on....

----------------

Baseball in the rain. I hate the sport with a stupid passion, but I can't imagine how difficult it must be to play that in the rain. Above anything, the challenge was really nothing more than a customary proof of determination. I doubt Akio really wouldn't have consented to letting Tomoya and Nagisa get married if he didn't hit the ball.

It's really more a trial of passage, whether or not he even hit the thing. I don't know how much proof Akio needs, but I believe all he wanted was to see just how a serious Tomoya was in asking his blessing to marry her. It was more of the multiple challenges Tomoya requested, as well as all the practice he did even in the rain just to learn how to swing better.

Akio said it best I think: "A child trying to grow up".

No doubt he still sees him as some kid trying to steal his daughter, but he definitely knows just how much growing Tomoya had already done. Baseball was merely a formality, trying to see just how much Tomoya has learned and how much he was determined to be with the woman he loved. He could have opted the child's way out, in the form of backing out, childish excuses and the like, but clearly it didn't cross his mind. He knew it was obviously impossible for him to hit that 105kph fastball with his broken arm, but if it was the only way for him to grant his wish, he'd do it even if it really was impossible.

I think Akio let him hit it, even in the game. Shoulder muscle injuries make ridiculous limits to ones arm capabilities. I'd guess he let him hit it to give him a sense of satisfaction, so that he'd have a chance to state is request for Nagisa's hand in marriage, to which Akio would have said yes to anyway. It's a guy thing lol.

"Do you like school?"

She never really definitively answered the question in episode 1, but I'm sure on the day of her mock graduation, she would have answered very differently. High school will have both some of the best and some of the worst memories one will have.

Her speech, while somewhat corny, is her vindication of sorts to the 5 years she had to spend as pretty much an outcast. Sickly, bad at making friends, awkward and clumsy, she asks herself the question on that April morning at the bottom of the hill. She is unsure of what the answer is, and she only does it so she could pull herself through the day, besides the Anpan anyway.

"Then make it fun."

She said so herself. The last 2 years of her high school life saw a drastic change in her person and her life. All because some blue haired delinquent offered to answer her rhetorical question with a challenge.

And there she finds the strength to admit on her graduation speech that somehow, despite the loneliness and isolation she had always felt, she finally felt some measure of happiness and enjoyment in her last 2 senior years. The drama club, the friends she made, the challenges she faced, the sick days she endured...

And, of course, the man she would eventually marry.

Because of Tomoya and her friends, she doesn't regret the days of ups and downs she spent in those hallways. On the final day of her wearing her uniform, she could easily say that, indeed, high school made her happy.

I don't know if it's because I've played the game, but Tomoya's father's expression of an almost empty and emotionless smile isn't really disconcerting. He had always been like that, visually at least, as far as the series and the game presented him to be. If my experiences has taught me anything, it's always these kinds of people who have a lot of things sealed away inside.

"Please take care of Tomoya."

You usually don't expect to hear the groom's father say this, almost as if to relinquish he stewardship of his son to his wife. Then again, how much of a father was he to begin with? Not much, as we tend to see.

But he gives him up to her, almost as if he's acknowledging his failure as a father, as a parent. It is almost like... penance of sorts.

I should also say that the game didn't have a wedding scene so I doubt we'll have one here. Then again, are marriages really all about tearjerking ceremonies, cake cutting and bouquet throwing? Or is it about the union of two humans in a (hopefully) unbreakable bond, beyond life, even beyond death?

And finally, I had a huge freakish smile on my face when he said she'd be "Okazaki Nagisa" from now on.

----------------

KyotoAni can still keep the same ED for the next 2 or 3 episodes, but they definitely need to change it after that. It's going to be really out of place after then.
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Old 2009-01-09, 11:06   Link #32
Sheba
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Of out of place EDs, people who watched Nanoha S1 can tell you how the ED was equally out of place when the whole atmosphere took a darker turn.

Spoiler:
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Old 2009-01-09, 11:27   Link #33
velvet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kristen View Post
Best episode of the entire series. Only one that comes close is season 1 episode 14.

Initially, they have my favorite scene from the game, where it's Akio v. Tomoya. And they did the silence after Tomoya asked for Nagisa's hand in marriage. But, I was angry that they didn't keep Akio's line, my favorite in the game "Idiot, I told you I'd grant you whatever you want. I agreed the moment you asked. Get off the ground." Ah well, can't have everything.
And then they did the graduation, which I was surprised at, but they still managed to do it very well.

But, and episode that got me choked up twice deserves a 10/10. Unfortunately they did not do a new ED, so now the ED is going to get really awkward, IMHO.
Another missing line. Ah, let's pray it won't happen again. (least not too much)


Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
"Do you like school?"

She never really definitively answered the question in episode 1, but I'm sure on the day of her mock graduation, she would have answered very differently. High school will have both some of the best and some of the worst memories one will have.

Her speech, while somewhat corny, is her vindication of sorts to the 5 years she had to spend as pretty much an outcast. Sickly, bad at making friends, awkward and clumsy, she asks herself the question on that April morning at the bottom of the hill. She is unsure of what the answer is, and she only does it so she could pull herself through the day, besides the Anpan anyway.
Yes, this is the right word, thank you. All those speeches.

At the bottom of the hill, a girl asked herself,

- Do you like school? -

5 years later, on the top of the hill, she answered.

-... it's a school that I love so much. Because it's the place I've worked so hard at.-

It was an answer she came up.
This time around with all her confidence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
And finally, I had a huge freakish smile on my face when he said she'd be "Okazaki Nagisa" from now on.
Cheers.
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Old 2009-01-09, 11:35   Link #34
Jimmy C
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Not 5 years, 2 years. Unless she also asked that when she first started.
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Old 2009-01-09, 11:40   Link #35
Kinny Riddle
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Besides the mood and quality of the story, one thing that distinguishes After Story from School Life is the music. It is just so much more solemn and heart warming than the lively and casual music we've been hearing before.

While the concept of the unwilling future father-in-law in letting go of his beloved daughter by setting up a challenge for his prospective son-in-law is cliche, Akio remains GAR and graceful all the way, including coming to terms with accepting this brat as his son-in-law.

Nagisa drunk is so kawaii. Enough said.

It was a joy to see the graduation scene, this time with Kotomi and Yukine, as well as Nishina and her choir club, thus making it even more complete.

Nagisa can count herself lucky with such great friends, willing to take time off just for her "graduation". Especially Kotomi, who flew back from her studies in America just for this. Then again, this took place sometime after the official graduation in March/April, so Kotomi probably took advantage of the long Easter Vacation schools offer there.

(Still, LOL'ed at Tomoya saying "That's too bad" when Sunohara says he might get fired if he just skip work to help out Nagisa. Second LOL goes to Sunohara's unbleached hair, though that was blunted by the fact we've all seen Sunohara unbleached in the Tomoyo special DVD episode. )

It's probably Nagisa's insistence that they get to visit Tomoya's father again so she could meet her father-in-law. While it is slow, Nagisa's effort may eventually pave the way for reconciliation between father and son.

Finally, Nagisa seems to have matured a lot not just mentally, but physically as well into a beautiful woman when she tied her hair back. Let's all say hi to Mrs Okazaki.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
Baseball in the rain. I hate the sport with a stupid passion, but I can't imagine how difficult it must be to play that in the rain. Above anything, the challenge was really nothing more than a customary proof of determination. I doubt Akio really wouldn't have consented to letting Tomoya and Nagisa get married if he didn't hit the ball.

It's really more a trial of passage, whether or not he even hit the thing. I don't know how much proof Akio needs, but I believe all he wanted was to see just how a serious Tomoya was in asking his blessing to marry her. It was more of the multiple challenges Tomoya requested, as well as all the practice he did even in the rain just to learn how to swing better.

Akio said it best I think: "A child trying to grow up".

No doubt he still sees him as some kid trying to steal his daughter, but he definitely knows just how much growing Tomoya had already done. Baseball was merely a formality, trying to see just how much Tomoya has learned and how much he was determined to be with the woman he loved. He could have opted the child's way out, in the form of backing out, childish excuses and the like, but clearly it didn't cross his mind. He knew it was obviously impossible for him to hit that 105kph fastball with his broken arm, but if it was the only way for him to grant his wish, he'd do it even if it really was impossible.

I think Akio let him hit it, even in the game. Shoulder muscle injuries make ridiculous limits to ones arm capabilities. I'd guess he let him hit it to give him a sense of satisfaction, so that he'd have a chance to state is request for Nagisa's hand in marriage, to which Akio would have said yes to anyway. It's a guy thing lol.
Couldn't have said it better myself. He was purposefully giving a huge handicap for himself in such heavy rain, knowing the ball would be slowed enough in such conditions for Tomoya to hit it.

Speaking of rain, besides adapting a good story, and near-consistent animation (with few, though harmless, flaws). if it is something Kyoto Animation that does as good as those, it is animating water, IMHO. Look at how thick the rain is surrounding the characters. I swore I was just gazing at the constant rain splattering off their heads and shoulders for some time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mecha_Trueno View Post
LOL just like everyone else, for me the drinking scene made my day. Especially when Nagisa popped out the 'forbidden question' (I wonder if that thought has always been eating her on the inside), then Akio feeling threated after Sanae said "I'm not teasing him at all, I'm serious" was golden!
EDIT: btw, did this part happen in the game?
Yes, it's all from the game, word for word. Including Akio's quip that Sanae had "huge boobs".

Nagisa reveals her true fears while drunk: She knows her biggest adversary for Tomoya is none other than her mother! And if done properly, Sanae might be even swayed to Tomoya's side, making Akio feel very, very threatened indeed. Father and daughter may have to join forces to prevent an unwanted harem from forming.

Oh, and before I forget: A big Welcome to Dango Mk II.
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It was fun while it lasted.

Last edited by Kinny Riddle; 2009-01-09 at 12:16.
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Old 2009-01-09, 13:33   Link #36
Ascaloth
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Episode 13 article is up:

[RIUVA] CLANNAD ~After Story~, Episode 13

It's a good episode, but it's a testament to the power of Ep12 that even this pales in comparison. I'll give this an 8.
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Old 2009-01-09, 15:13   Link #37
Ithekro
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That minute and a half of drunk Nagisa/Sanae makes it worth it.
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Old 2009-01-09, 16:28   Link #38
Mecha_Trueno
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinny Riddle View Post
Yes, it's all from the game, word for word. Including Akio's quip that Sanae had "huge boobs".

Nagisa reveals her true fears while drunk: She knows her biggest adversary for Tomoya is none other than her mother!
HELL YEAH! she KNOWS it. Come on, finding out that Sanae isn't a winnable charatcer in the game was the sole reason i didn't bother playing it.


Quote:
And if done properly, Sanae might be even swayed to Tomoya's side, making Akio feel very, very threatened indeed. Father and daughter may have to join forces to prevent an unwanted harem from forming.
Now THAT would be a nice harem! Having Sanae-san in the pack
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Old 2009-01-09, 17:51   Link #39
Beo
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Do not think its insecurity at all, it more like possessiveness. It was like her saying that this is mine, any other woman is not allowed to flirt, including mother, with him. Her mother knew what was going on and was teasing her a bit.

For those who have not gone through it, a newly engaged girl is scary. I walked around for about a year looking at the ground to make sure I saw nothing from her perspective; I was never one to looking around anyway.
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Old 2009-01-09, 17:56   Link #40
Change of Pace
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Okazaki Nagisa looks the splitting image of Sanae. Very cute, in a much more mature way than before. Approved!

Also, the preview had me cracking up. *Whistles* It's about time, Tomoya...
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