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Old 2009-01-08, 21:51   Link #381
Rias
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Beatrice never specified the exact number of humans on the island. It's always "there's no more than "X number" of people on the island".

Spoiler:
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Old 2009-01-08, 22:07   Link #382
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Damn my lack of word memory, boy I need to somehow get the script
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Old 2009-01-08, 23:15   Link #383
k//eternal
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So I was replaying Ep. 1 and thinking about the issues mentioned in the red text.

Spoiler:


Thoughts?
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Old 2009-01-08, 23:39   Link #384
Klashikari
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I honestly don't see how we can factor Rosa Musou: there is obviously a sheer part of fantasy in such scene, so that being a demonstrated fact anyone can pierce skull with the stake is really dubious.
As for a hammer... that would need quite some dexterity, as stakes are really thin, which mean you can screw up quite easily if you miss by few mm.

Also remember that not only Beatrice confirmed the last 3 corpses identity, but also these are murders as well.
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Old 2009-01-09, 00:03   Link #385
k//eternal
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Not that Rosa-Musou should be taken completely seriously, but I think driving a sharp object into someone's skull can be accomplished with something like a hammer. And while that may take some dexterity as you say, I don't think that rules it out.

Also, when talking about fake deaths I was primarily thinking about Rosa, honestly, or maybe Shannon? Somebody who can pretend to be Beatrice, because that's important to keeping Maria quiet. The last 3 are definitely dead as you state.
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Old 2009-01-09, 00:15   Link #386
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The real issue with the stake matter is probably the lack of detail.
If we take into account their reactions, it seems the stakes were thrust deep and clean. It is actually surprising that the wound isn't crude, unlike with Nanjo and Kumasawa in episode 2.
Of course, the dexterity issue isn't ultimately something that would prevent the use of a hammer, but that really requires a thorough preparation as any failed attempt is obviously not allowed.
This is where I wonder if Kanon really has the means to do such feat, considering how weak his constitution is... until he is feigning that from the very start which isn't impossible either.
The other issue with episode 1 is... how the perpectives and narrations seem totally unaltered, so giving doubts if there isn't any "hallucination" unlike 2-3-4. If Kanon really did that, that means either Kumasawa is in cahoots, or something much more weird happened between the two.

it is however pretty interesting that Beato didn't confirm any closed room in ep1, aside of Eva and Hideyoshi's, so a broken window trick can be applied as you say though I wonder if the weather wasn't that bad.

As for the 6... the problem is how any of them would be able to open the shutter of the storehouse from the inside, especially that it is a new padlock.
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Old 2009-01-09, 00:37   Link #387
k//eternal
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There's no way that episode 1 has no "fake events".

Spoiler:


The weather is a possible hole in the broken window theory, but there could be at least one "quiet window" like the one in the guesthouse if it's facing the right direction.

Regarding the 6, not too tricky if you assume the kills were made and then the door was locked. The key would then just be put back in the box.
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Old 2009-01-09, 05:20   Link #388
Saerianne
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Hey everyone, I'm new. Been lurking for a while and got an account. ^^ On to the topic...

Spoiler for Ep 2/Kinzo:
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Old 2009-01-09, 08:10   Link #389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k//eternal View Post
There's no way that episode 1 has no "fake events".
I did not mean there is "no fake" event, but the problem is how episode 1 is protrayed quite with "sanity" here. Also, the scene you are talking about still can happen if there is a time inconsistency, or if someone took "his title" as stated for episode 4.
As for the rest of the situation, it is quite debatable to doubt the scenes shown to us.

Quote:
Regarding the 6, not too tricky if you assume the kills were made and then the door was locked. The key would then just be put back in the box.
Then, there is no possible claim for "fake death" then. Like I said, there is no way for those who are inside the storehouse to get away from it, considering they would be dead trapped.
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Old 2009-01-09, 09:16   Link #390
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Remembering a spongebob squarepants episode...

Spoiler for Kinzo´s death:


Congratulations for ryukishi support!
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Old 2009-01-09, 11:58   Link #391
Von Himmel
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I don't think Ryukishi is one to use the same plot over and over again.
Quote:
The real issue with the stake matter is probably the lack of detail.
If we take into account their reactions, it seems the stakes were thrust deep and clean. It is actually surprising that the wound isn't crude, unlike with Nanjo and Kumasawa in episode 2.
Put aside the killer for now, how about if someone shoot the victim with a gun and then stab the wound with the stake ?

There's one thing for sure though, like you said, logically using heavy force to stab the victim will not make the wound to be deep and clean.

*sigh* if only the stake doesn't exist. .
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Old 2009-01-09, 13:26   Link #392
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Spoiler for question:
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Old 2009-01-09, 13:39   Link #393
k//eternal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Then, there is no possible claim for "fake death" then. Like I said, there is no way for those who are inside the storehouse to get away from it, considering they would be dead trapped.
Nobody went back to look at the scene later, so any such person could have been let out afterward.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyvedelta View Post
Put aside the killer for now, how about if someone shoot the victim with a gun and then stab the wound with the stake ?
Ah, this actually sounds very good! There would already be a hole, so jamming in the stake would be much easier, and the bullet hole would be missed due to the stake.
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Old 2009-01-09, 14:07   Link #394
Cola91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyvedelta View Post
I don't think Ryukishi is one to use the same plot over and over again.

Put aside the killer for now, how about if someone shoot the victim with a gun and then stab the wound with the stake ?

There's one thing for sure though, like you said, logically using heavy force to stab the victim will not make the wound to be deep and clean.

*sigh* if only the stake doesn't exist. .
I thought about the stake being stabbed into a bullet hole too as soon as I got to know
Spoiler for ep3:
from ep3 and I still think it is the most convincing theory.

Anyway I noticed that nobody is actually posting anything about solving the epitaph... have you already given up?
I think I might be on the right path but I think I can't get any further as long as I don't know japanese so maybe I'll post something about it so that you who know japanese better than me can (assuming that I'm right) get a lead to solve the epitaph
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Old 2009-01-09, 14:09   Link #395
Von Himmel
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Quote:
Nobody went back to look at the scene later, so any such person could have been let out afterward
That would bring suspicion to the one who hold the key I thought the killer was going to keep low-profile, and makes people think that they are witch doing.

Well, if no one thinks that anyone can fake their deaths, it doesn't really matter though.
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Old 2009-01-09, 14:47   Link #396
Rias
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cola91 View Post

Anyway I noticed that nobody is actually posting anything about solving the epitaph... have you already given up?
I think I might be on the right path but I think I can't get any further as long as I don't know japanese so maybe I'll post something about it so that you who know japanese better than me can (assuming that I'm right) get a lead to solve the epitaph
There were some discussions of that back in the ep3 discussions. and I was a believer of the Enoura theory.
Spoiler for ep4:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyvedelta View Post
That would bring suspicion to the one who hold the key I thought the killer was going to keep low-profile, and makes people think that they are witch doing.

Well, if no one thinks that anyone can fake their deaths, it doesn't really matter though.
Or someone could've just cut the lock and let people out. The weird thing of ep1 is that,

Spoiler for perhaps I'm misunderstanding the concept of "alibi":
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Old 2009-01-09, 15:11   Link #397
k//eternal
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My theory on the epitaph went like this, but it might have been disproved in ep. 3...



As for alibis, the idea is that the killer could not have been at the scene of the crime when it occurred. I think a pretty solid alibi would be "being dead" (in the sense that I suspect Kanon and maybe some others faked their deaths), which would make it impossible in everyone else's eyes.
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Old 2009-01-09, 15:50   Link #398
Cola91
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Ok then since nobody thought about this yet I'll post it then you can crucify me for being an idiot XD

Spoiler for epitaph theory and space...:


I can go on but what I get for following the epitaph looks stupid to me but I think the next move would be using Kinzo's name (praise my name on high) but I'll wait for you to destroy this part of my theory first XD

Last edited by Cola91; 2009-01-09 at 17:32.
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Old 2009-01-09, 17:31   Link #399
kgptzac
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since i don't like to click several "spoiler" buttons to read a single reply, i'm just going to include everything under one bit spoiler tag~

Spoiler:
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Old 2009-01-09, 18:27   Link #400
Saerianne
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Spoiler for Battler's 'Sin'?:


Thoughts?

Last edited by Saerianne; 2009-01-09 at 18:28. Reason: spelling error
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