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Old 2009-01-09, 21:09   Link #1181
wisteria233
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Originally Posted by Father Hentai View Post
Yes she did volunteer but again I say that this was hasty again from her without the oppurtunity to ask the most closest person who is her custodian. Even though we accept her as a young adult she should have had the option to ask Ozma. But this failed due to manipulations/influences from Leon and Grace. Ozma would never have let this gone through but he had to accept that he has been compassed. You can see this in episode 16 where he was more than upset about the plannings Leon did. Yes, Ranka could have prevent more casualties and she did that already with great pain either by being unheared which tears her heart or by the Fold wave connected Vajra she feels through the bacterias in her belly.

I cite what Ozma Lee when he fought against the bugs in episode 17:



And you know what? He's so damn fuckin' right. I hope now you understand me a bit why I am not willing to push any damn responsibility to Ranka, because thinking like that disgusts me. The responsibility to protect is within the NUNS and SMS and nowhere else. It is not a civilians job to protect. It is those who are trained for combat.

And here's also something that should be taken into consideration, "With great power comes great responsibility" then there's also the belief that people with the power to help others should use that power.
Again that's your opinion, and your entitled to have it, but like I said before I said before if the discomfort of one person can save a over a thousand lives, then, guess what? That person will be feeling that discomfort, because quite frankly I value the lives of thousands of people more than the I value the discomfort of some immature 16 year old girl. I still don't understand you, by the way, mostly because like I said when faced with the facts of the situation I don't care, about what Ranka is feeling, because to me her feelings don't matter because in a situation like that her feelings don't matter to me.
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Old 2009-01-09, 21:14   Link #1182
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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
Again that's your opinion, and your entitled to have it, but like I said before I said before if the discomfort of one person can save a over a thousand lives, then, guess what? That person will be feeling that discomfort, because quite frankly I value the lives of thousands of people more than the I value the discomfort of some immature 16 year old girl.
Exactly, you are weighing the life of one immature 16 year old against the life of 10 million. I hate to say this, but its quite clear which is more important. Never mind that we are not even asking that 16 year old to sacrifice her life.

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Old 2009-01-09, 21:28   Link #1183
MoonlitKaitou
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Anyone who sits there and gripes and bitches about hating a character and why you hate them so much is really childish *For any character, but mostly Ranka*

I love Ranka- she's a very wonderful character in many aspects- and if you don't see those qualities, then that's fine =3
Just as Sheryl, I see some wonderful qualities in her too- I really like Sheryl, she's a wonderful character, I just like Ranka a bit more...

I believe it's ok to dislike a character who you are not fond of, but I'm not one to appreciate bashing in any sort or way... *And I'm not only speaking up for Ranka, but for any poor character that get's bashed to death*


And for the people who believe that Ranka didn't grow up, well that's your opinion, but I honestly believe that Ranka did grow up a bit... not as much as I would have liked- I believe that there was quite a bit more room for some character development, but you do see her growing up a bit through out the series... *Hopefully the movie will have a bit more development*


And I just have to get this out of my system after reading what people say-

For the people who are always saying- "Well, honestly the interaction between Sheryl and Alto was WAY more realistic for a relationship than Ranka and Alto"

Ano... last I checked everyone has a different personality- whether it be shy, outgoing, flirtacious, childish, etc, etc....-

Ranka and Alto's relationship is most definitely realisitc- I'm a very shy person, especially when it comes to boys and I'm always being found very cute and somewhat childish in the way I act *But I am a bit more mature now* but I have gone on dates and hung out with boys where you don't always need to be touching and flirting with the other guy for it to seem like a more realistic relationship or whatever =P

Just wanted to prove a point... and now I'm finished ranting.
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Old 2009-01-09, 21:40   Link #1184
Swampstorm
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Oddly enough, the strength of Alto and Sheryl's relationship lies in their quiet moments together, much moreso than their banter. The banter makes the pairing fun to watch, but once you move past that, many of their interactions have a great deal of depth to them. I suspect that's what people are referring to.

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Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
While I do agree with pretty much everything you said, could it be possible that Kawamori did try to do that but failed to convey the message in a more direct manner like Alto and Sheryl? If I remember correct, when Brera and Ranka arrived at the Vajra home planet and the Vajra began to attack them, Ranka did say something along the lines of "That isn't enough, I want to stop all the fighting!" because Brera had suggested to leave because the Vajra became violent once again. Now the only problem here is that Brera was the only person to hear this.
You're right. Specifically, she states that she wants to make things so that they don't have to fight: it's in episode twenty three. It's almost presented as an aside, though.

I don't doubt that Kawamori intended to have her act as a bridge between the two species. I think the problem is entirely in the presentation.
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Old 2009-01-09, 21:47   Link #1185
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From my view it is cruel to push somebody to do/act something he does not desire. We are all individuals with a free will to decide. As you say she should have do it you can' t force her and that is the crux. She denied because she developed her will to say/decide what she wants and not what other desire from her. As Brera said in the series, her song is her heart and this heart belongs to her. If you can' t still understand that, then it can' t be helped. But this frees her from being toyed by an usurper. I can' t push you to understand what it means. But what I can ask you is if would let your own child have such a heavy burden to be blessed to love and then to act something she actually did not desire. Think about when her heart got torn by some reason and then she got is being forced/ to act something and also being taken into responsibility. You may see that Ranka ran away but in fact she did what was right: Listening to her heart.
While I would like to have my ( imaginary ) child follow her heart, Iīd much more like her to consider the consequences of her actions.

I really think you should be a bit less presumptuos to try to tell me that I donīt "understand" what you are saying. I fully understand your point, it just appears to me to be ostentatious wishy-washy flowery wishful thinking.

There was a war going on, thousands of people had just been killed. Running off to "listen to your heart" is no option there for anybody with even a shred of self-respect and dignity. Itīs the act of an egotistical coward.

Ranka failed. Big time. Sheryl immediately stepped up when she was asked to give up her life for the people of Frontier, which wasnīt even really her home to begin with.
And, no, Sheryl didnīt agree to sing for Alto alone, as Ranka did. That was shown quite well after Sheryls talk with Luca and Leon.

Geez, the more I think I about it, the more my disgust for Ranka glimmers to life again. SK really dropped the ball on her character. I mean, what was the lesson he wanted to impart with her behaviour to us? That you can be as irresponsible, cowardly and dependent as you like, as long as you are enough of a moe-blob, then everybody will forgive you?
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Old 2009-01-09, 21:55   Link #1186
Father Hentai
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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
And here's also something that should be taken into consideration, "With great power comes great responsibility" then there's also the belief that people with the power to help others should use that power.
Again that's your opinion, and your entitled to have it, but like I said before I said before if the discomfort of one person can save a over a thousand lives, then, guess what? That person will be feeling that discomfort, because quite frankly I value the lives of thousands of people more than the I value the discomfort of some immature 16 year old girl. I still don't understand you, by the way, mostly because like I said when faced with the facts of the situation I don't care, about what Ranka is feeling, because to me her feelings don't matter because in a situation like that her feelings don't matter to me.
If I may add something to "With great power comes great responsibility" then it would be "With great power comes great responsibility when the time is right".
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Old 2009-01-09, 22:22   Link #1187
magnuskn
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Originally Posted by Father Hentai View Post
If I may add something to "With great power comes great responsibility" then it would be "With great power comes great responsibility when the time is right".
Seems to me more of a case of "With great power comes great responsibility when I feel like it" with Ranka.
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Old 2009-01-09, 22:25   Link #1188
wisteria233
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Originally Posted by Father Hentai View Post
If I may add something to "With great power comes great responsibility" then it would be "With great power comes great responsibility when the time is right".
What better time than when such a power is needed, like when an entire fleet, with over one thousand civilians are in danger, of an attack, from a advanced species with the potential to wipe them out, and only you have the power to stop said species?
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Old 2009-01-09, 22:25   Link #1189
Father Hentai
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Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
Seems to me more of a case of "With great power comes great responsibility when I feel like it" with Ranka.
Yepp. But this depends if you stop analizing her in episode 21 or in episode 25.
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Old 2009-01-09, 22:29   Link #1190
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There's no timing for responsibility, bub. Not really.
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Old 2009-01-09, 22:35   Link #1191
Father Hentai
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There's no timing for responsibility, bub. Not really.
So then you would let a young prince take the throne and rule the country as he wants without any advisor?

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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
What better time than when such a power is needed, like when an entire fleet, with over one thousand civilians are in danger, of an attack, from a advanced species with the potential to wipe them out, and only you have the power to stop said species?
This is something what the person who bears that power has to say. Neither you, I or somebody else has the right to decide that.
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Old 2009-01-09, 22:35   Link #1192
magnuskn
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Yepp. But this depends if you stop analizing her in episode 21 or in episode 25.
Since her characterization didnīt change one iota until she somehow got a "Magic HaX, lololol" update after getting freed by Alto of Graces mind-wammy, I donīt see the difference. She suddenly had the ability to directly communicate with the Vajra and cure Sheryl of her illness with said Magic HaX, none of which had to do anything with her character development. Getting obvious super-powers will of course boost your self-confidence somewhat.

All in all the writers totally abandoned the character development of all three mains after the scene on that "higher plane" where Ranka cured Sheryl. They went instead for the happy-go-lucky finish, which is fine in a way, but a shame for all the wasted character plotlines.

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Originally Posted by Father Hentai View Post
So then you would let a young prince take the throne and rule the country as he wants without any advisor?
Throwing random non-sequitors into the discussion does not make your point better.

*edit* God, itīs almost 5 a.m. here... Beto, take over, please. ^^
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Old 2009-01-09, 22:45   Link #1193
wisteria233
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This is something what the person who bears that power has to say. Neither you, I or somebody else has the right to decide that.
Yeah and she already did that, when she agreed to Frontier's songstress of hope.

We'll have to continue this discussion tomorrow, I'm done for tonight.
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Old 2009-01-09, 23:03   Link #1194
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So then you would let a young prince take the throne and rule the country as he wants without any advisor?
Louis XIV did quite well over at France... Honestly, you're still grasping at straws. It's not even near the same measure of responsibility we're calling out on Ranka.

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Originally Posted by Father Hentai View Post
This is something what the person who bears that power has to say. Neither you, I or somebody else has the right to decide that.
Right. So, if you have the power to stop someone from dying - and by doing it wouldn't harm you even a little - and you don't save said someone... I can't say you're a heartless, horrible, irresponsible person?
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Old 2009-01-09, 23:37   Link #1195
Father Hentai
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Louis XIV did quite well over at France... Honestly, you're still grasping at straws. It's not even near the same measure of responsibility we're calling out on Ranka.
Louis XIV suceed the throne in age of four but the the actual ruler was Cardinal Mazarin, prime miniser. Louis took over the throne at an age of 22 when Mazarin deceased.

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Right. So, if you have the power to stop someone from dying - and by doing it wouldn't harm you even a little - and you don't save said someone... I can't say you're a heartless, horrible, irresponsible person?
I would save that persons life. But you already pointed depending on how much it harms me I would reask for refusal and try to find alternative methods to cure. If it means to sacrifice my life for one battle then would it not be a waste if the war still goes on? I am no use if I died unneccesarily. May sound arrogant now but I would always try to find more than one methods to solve an issue and also spare my own life for a higher goal.
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Old 2009-01-10, 00:43   Link #1196
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Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
snip...

Geez, the more I think I about it, the more my disgust for Ranka glimmers to life again. SK really dropped the ball on her character. I mean, what was the lesson he wanted to impart with her behaviour to us? That you can be as irresponsible, cowardly and dependent as you like, as long as you are enough of a moe-blob, then everybody will forgive you?
I couldn't have said it better myself. Cookie for you.
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Old 2009-01-10, 03:08   Link #1197
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So then you would let a young prince take the throne and rule the country as he wants without any advisor?
Won't help if he chose not to have any, now, would it? Thats what Ranka did. She chose not to have council.

But historically, many young princes held themselves up pretty well. Genghis Khan, for example.

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This is something what the person who bears that power has to say. Neither you, I or somebody else has the right to decide that.
Yeah, you are right. We can't decide. What we can decide, however, is our judgment on the character, such is what we are doing now.

I also get irritated when some fans would state something like "but Ranka, like, totally deserves Alto" as if Alto was a thing to be shoved around with. As if Alto was not a human being with feelings. No, its not who deserves who, but its which relationship can Alto and _insert name here_ reach the greatest equilibrium.

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Old 2009-01-10, 07:39   Link #1198
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Won't help if he chose not to have any, now, would it? Thats what Ranka did. She chose not to have council.

But historically, many young princes held themselves up pretty well. Genghis Khan, for example.
I did not mean to go too far into history and comparing any royalties or great historical persons. The question was if he still feels right about puting someone into a positon with authorization to decide even though that person still did not reach the mental capability do make right decisions... but Beto just avoided my question by going into history.
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Old 2009-01-10, 07:48   Link #1199
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I also get irritated when some fans would state something like "but Ranka, like, totally deserves Alto" as if Alto was a thing to be shoved around with. As if Alto was not a human being with feelings. No, its not who deserves who, but its which relationship can Alto and _insert name here_ reach the greatest equilibrium.
Well, it may be a thing of semantics, but I donīt mind if anybody says "Sheryl deserves Alto", because I know that she put in the necessary "work" to get to know him and his and her personalities mesh very well.

Ranka just put him onto a pedestal and didnīt show the slightest interest into getting to know him as a person until the very end .
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Old 2009-01-10, 08:11   Link #1200
Father Hentai
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Well, it may be a thing of semantics, but I donīt mind if anybody says "Sheryl deserves Alto", because I know that she put in the necessary "work" to get to know him and his and her personalities mesh very well.

Ranka just put him onto a pedestal and didnīt show the slightest interest into getting to know him as a person until the very end .
The point is Sheryl is a more open person while Ranka is shy. Sheryl was from the beginning a person where you could easily create a love story because of their interactions.

Ranka is more difficult. Creating a love story is here way to complicated and would take too much time to create a love relationship. And putting someone into a central position to desire is not wrong at least not until you openly force him to love you.
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