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Old 2009-01-16, 21:09   Link #2221
RWBladewing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos View Post
Nope. I'm on Ner'zhul. Kagamin is my hunter, Shana is my DK.
I can't believe you got those names, especially the DK. Did you have that sitting reserved on a lv 1 alt for years? Or do they have other characters/accents in them? Guess it's not a complete surprise though, I used to know this BE named Cloud, he apparently just rolled the character and got the name, no idea how since that's like the first name taken on every server.

Edit: You know what, I am positive I was in a bg against you when my hunter was still on Proudmoore, I distinctly remember seeing that name on a BE hunter and thinking "hey, another anime fan, he has a lucky star name though so I have to try and kill him", guild name sounds familiar too.
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Old 2009-01-16, 21:30   Link #2222
Mr Hat and Clogs
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I never think to try anime names generally, most are usually taken. Along with book names and movie names.

Shana is a great name for a DK heh.
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Old 2009-01-16, 21:30   Link #2223
Xellos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RWBladewing View Post
I can't believe you got those names, especially the DK. Did you have that sitting reserved on a lv 1 alt for years? Or do they have other characters/accents in them? Guess it's not a complete surprise though, I used to know this BE named Cloud, he apparently just rolled the character and got the name, no idea how since that's like the first name taken on every server.

Edit: You know what, I am positive I was in a bg against you when my hunter was still on Proudmoore, I distinctly remember seeing that name on a BE hunter and thinking "hey, another anime fan, he has a lucky star name though so I have to try and kill him", guild name sounds familiar too.
Hmm, I believe I was doing BGs on my paladin back in TBC when one of my guild mates made an alt named Kagamin and whispered me. Knowing my fondness for Kagami, he deleted the alt so I could use it. I'm more surprised that Shana wasn't taken since I remember a Shana on my server back in TBC. I had made an undead rogue alt with the name well before WotLK came out and just deleted it before I made my DK. I originally wanted Fate as my DK name, but that was taken. If I had to reroll, I'd probably go male Orc and have Bardiche as the name hah. Speaking of Nanoha, there's a DK named Dvinebuster on my server as well. Male orc no less.

Yeah, you probably saw me in BGs back in the day when I somewhat cared about pvp.
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Old 2009-01-16, 21:38   Link #2224
RWBladewing
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I've seen a few Nanoha names myself, a BE paladin named Shamal and a NE rogue named Zafira, as well as a "Sigunamu".

Most of my names come from anime as well though they tend to be extremely minor characters, including Bartley who was that one random fat general in Code Geass. My pets Kotomi and Tomoyo were a bit less subtle though, haha.
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Old 2009-01-16, 21:51   Link #2225
Xellos
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Ah yes, hunter pet names. My main pet, a ghost stalker cat, is named Konata. Not that I'm a big Konata fan, but I figured it was appropriate considering my hunter's name. I also have a scorpid named Adiane, from TTGL, which I used for pvp. Still thinking about what to name Loque if I decide to go tame it.
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Old 2009-01-16, 22:04   Link #2226
krisslanza
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Hmmmm on a random different note I have to say WoW has one big negative impact on the MMO community. Pretty much when any MMO is shown it'll be instantly compared to WoW even if its different.

And this isn't totally WoW related but it annoys me too that the second a Korean MMO is shown it'll be instantly labeled grindfest. Ok sure, they all have grind but... If you think about it WoW has a ton of grind too. It's just more... Subtle and diverse.

I mean you have your basic level grind (which isn't too bad until you get to Northrend and cry at the 1.5million you need compared to like 500k from 69 > 70...) but you also have PvP grind, your reputation grind (arguably the worst of it all?), professions grind... And I guess a gear/raid grind too. So when I think about it WoW is about as grindy as some Korean MMOs, the grind is just more divided out so you don't notice it as easily... Or maybe I'm just fed up with every MMO being compared to WoW the second anyone hears of it.
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Old 2009-01-16, 22:24   Link #2227
Xellos
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The comparisons will be unavoidable considering the overwhelming success of WoW. I'm sure it gets annoying for some people, but I don't pay much mind to it.

I played FFXI before WoW and that was a more painful game than WoW by far. Solo xp is pretty much non-existent past the teens, so you have to group up for xp. God forbid you're a dps class that has to compete with every other dps class for a xp spot. Think of LFG for heroics/raid as dps in WoW except 1000x worse. Then you're stuck killing the relatively same looking mobs for 60+ levels while having a nice -XP penalty everytime you die. Granted, things are better now in FFXI with level sync and campaign, but I'll take WoW leveling any day. Professions in FFXI were a lot worse as well. Nothing like spending hundreds of thousands of gil for that 0.1 skillup. Sure, WoW has a lot of grind, but it's a lot more user friendly and varied.
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Old 2009-01-16, 22:27   Link #2228
krisslanza
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Originally Posted by Xellos View Post
The comparisons will be unavoidable considering the overwhelming success of WoW. I'm sure it gets annoying for some people, but I don't pay much mind to it.

I played FFXI before WoW and that was a more painful game than WoW by far. Solo xp is pretty much non-existent past the teens, so you have to group up for xp. God forbid you're a dps class that has to compete with every other dps class for a xp spot. Think of LFG for heroics/raid as dps in WoW except 1000x worse. Then you're stuck killing the relatively same looking mobs for 60+ levels while having a nice -XP penalty everytime you die. Granted, things are better now in FFXI with level sync and campaign, but I'll take WoW leveling any day. Professions in FFXI were a lot worse as well. Nothing like spending hundreds of thousands of gil for that 0.1 skillup. Sure, WoW has a lot of grind, but it's a lot more user friendly and varied.
Yeah WoW has a lot of grind but that's kind of the problem... No one ever seems to notice. Unless you get to the 'raid' grind everyone assumes WoW is grind-free and easy. Which instantly makes any other game look like a grindfest. Since I guess compared to WoW they're a lot more 'obviously' grinds.

*shrug*

I did try FFXI myself. I never got into it. And due to the inanely stupid password system and stuff I can't even remember my info to sign in and cancel the darn thing.
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Old 2009-01-16, 23:55   Link #2229
Mr Hat and Clogs
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I've played a shitload of MMO's (western, korean or otherwise). They all have grinds present in some form, WoW just hides it the best. I feel that most people enjoy it because WoW is primarily quest based, so people can feel like they achieve something in a short time. Others replace questing with 'camping', and as enjoyably social as it was to sit in the corner of a zone somewhere killing mobs over and over again for hours at a time I'd have to say the majority will enjoy the questing keeping things 'fresh'.

Although it probably is unfair to label every korean MMO as a grindfest, it is a fairly common, blatantly so, occurrence in them. Lineage was almost painful, but EQ was no worse or better. Thankfully most have come a long way since those heady days of MMO infancy!

It is a pity that all new games are compared to WoW, but that's the way it is now. WoW is like the MMO equivalent of a monopoly and when another game comes along with an idea that they haven't tried they incorporate it into WoW, take the achievements for example that's straight from LoTRO. Although in WoW's favor they did start with a very good base (smooth gameplay, interesting story, easy to pick up and understand) to begin with and have improved on it.
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Old 2009-01-17, 00:35   Link #2230
krisslanza
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Yeah all MMOs have grind. It's the only way to keep players in the game. I just get angry and people assuming WoW has no grind when, as pointed out, it has a lot it just isn't as noticeable due to how well it hides it.

The quest-based gameplay of WoW does help reduce the grinding feel. Even if it really IS flat out grinding (Kill 'x' mob or get 'y' item) you don't feel like it since the quests seem to make it well... Worthwhile? Problem is after a while I started to notice this and it started to bug me. The quests might be nice but I got annoyed at how all the time I'd put into a nice quest chain to get some shiny useless reward. Sure it's shiny but what a letdown for something I didn't need...

Korean MMOs usually have high grind I think due to the higher patience level for grinding. Western gamers typically dislike grinding a lot so having to grind quickly drains their patience. Korean, and asian gamers in general, seem to withstand it a lot better in my experience.

Lineage II was one of those 'Oh my god this game is gorgeous' but the graphics are there to just cover up the total lack of quests/plot and grinding. It works to an extent. I mean I was pretty motivated to level my Dark Elf up on some servers to well... See the 'armor' but... Once I started to REALLY grind I lost interest.

Really is a shame any MMO gets insta-compared to WoW. It instantly makes them all sound and feel vastly inferior. I mean what fresh MMO has a chance of competing with the 'ruler of the playground' so to speak? LoTRO does have one nice advantage (not that I've played it since beta) in that the whole legendary weapon thing? Sounds totally awesome. I'd love my own personal, special, nameable weapon...
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Old 2009-01-17, 00:47   Link #2231
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Yeah, I'm totally expecting WoW to ad hock that in somehow. Its a shame too, I really like LoTRO, both story and game-play were pretty enjoyable and to me it seemed like it should have been a good competitor to WoW. I mean they were quite similar and at the time LoTRO had some features over WoW that really added to the game.

I'm of the belief that lots of competition drives innovation. One game comes up with something the others adapt it, and so on. It makes for a more interesting gaming experience. But it does have the downside that once the big fish adapts it, things become harder for the smaller fish as they lose their advantage.
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Old 2009-01-17, 04:15   Link #2232
Sephi
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Talking about grindfest, how does wow hide it better than other MMORPG? I haven't played other MMORPG, but back when i was playing, grinding my way to exalted rep with furbolgs for +15agi, or exalted with AV/Arathi Basin was also quite a long and boring grind fest...

Seeing how it's mentioned that it has changed, i assume it's easier or atleast more fun in TBC/WoTLK ? If not those other MMORPG's must of been some really hardcore grindfest, as (vanilla)WOW was already too much for me.

I notice previous page was about Hunter pet. I use to use this site. I really like the rare frostsaber spawn in Winterspring. Think i camped there with my hunter for 3 days until i finally spot it in the morning before going to school Was one of the coolest looking pet imho. But seems like TBC/WoTLK brought a lot of new pets. corehouds/Devilsaurs oO!!
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Old 2009-01-17, 04:32   Link #2233
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Talking about grindfest, how does wow hide it better than other MMORPG? I haven't played other MMORPG, but back when i was playing, grinding my way to exalted rep with furbolgs for +15agi, or exalted with AV/Arathi Basin was also quite a long and boring grind fest...

Seeing how it's mentioned that it has changed, i assume it's easier or atleast more fun in TBC/WoTLK ? If not those other MMORPG's must of been some really hardcore grindfest, as (vanilla)WOW was already too much for me.
WoW has always been one of the least grindy MMOs out there. They've changed it recently (basically to keep the time it takes to get to max level a constant despite it going up), but its always been like that. Some people actually complain that leveling is far too easy...
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Old 2009-01-17, 04:48   Link #2234
Ithekro
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Reputation grinding is still grinding. However most are daily based or tabard based in instances for 80s in Northrend. The older factions are still the same grinds, though I imagine they've reduced the time needed by increasing the reputation earned for kills and some quests. On the otherhand, you generally don't need to do those older rep grinds because you'll find quest items later on that are superior to the older level 60 items (and later level 70 items). Unless you want the achievement for them that is...or a mount or pet maybe.

The difference is not so great moving from Outland to Northrend in terms of item quality in the starting areas. Moving from Old WoW to Outland is quite a much larger jump in item quality. There are still some things that one would use for a long time in Outland, and there are other things you'll ditch because the starting quest items in the Hellfire are vastly superior.

Take the Furblog quests in Winterspring and Felwood. At the end you get a blue quality trinket. That trinket is rather good for a long time in Outland. I don't think I replaced it fully until I hit Northrend. It had just that much more spell damage than any of the other questing trinkets.

Other stuff will be replaced just on the first quest chain. Even Tier 2 Epics from what I understand

In Northrend however, it took me quite a while before I was replacing items. Especially crafted items and rares items. Epic items even longer. (I don't think I've replaced my "Belt of Blasting" yet, just regemmed it instead). It just depends on how much you were geared before hitting Northrend. People with Tier 6 gear didn't get much in the terms of items until late in the game (or even until they started doing Level 80 content for Tier 7 stuff)
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Old 2009-01-17, 08:48   Link #2235
krisslanza
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Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
WoW has always been one of the least grindy MMOs out there. They've changed it recently (basically to keep the time it takes to get to max level a constant despite it going up), but its always been like that. Some people actually complain that leveling is far too easy...
Maybe level-wise but if you take into account things like reputation grinding it's still relatively hard to grind in... Reputation grinding is really the big 'grind' factor. I think it just get disguised due to all the questing you do in the process of the grind that it doesn't feel like you're grinding.

Or possibly since WoW is made by a western company the majority of players will assume it's grind-free simply because it isn't Korean. *shrug*
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Old 2009-01-17, 09:11   Link #2236
Mr Hat and Clogs
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Or possibly since WoW is made by a western company the majority of players will assume it's grind-free simply because it isn't Korean.
That's not really a fair statement, there are plenty of western MMO's that are grind fests, in fact pre-wow, near all western MMO's were primarily grind fests. Blatant grind fests that is. Since WoW they have evolved to include quests as the primary mode of leveling. It is still grinding since that's what MMO's are, games of time and numbers, but they made the process far more engaging and enjoyable. Perhaps it is true that western audiences have a lower tolerance to grinding, or asian audiences have a larger tolerance for it but neither way is wrong, its merely companies evolving and catering to their customers/society in order to make the best profit, I mean product.

I'm not sure since I haven't kept much of an eye on other MMO's for a little while now (other then LoTRO), but I'm pretty sure that even the korean MMO's are slowly following WoW's model. Heck Ragnarok (I think it was) has taken steps to do that from memory when I last played it, making it easier to level.
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Old 2009-01-17, 10:33   Link #2237
Clarste
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Or possibly since WoW is made by a western company the majority of players will assume it's grind-free simply because it isn't Korean. *shrug*
Actually, most of the people I've heard say it was less grindy were comparing it to Everquest and other western MMOs (Korean MMOs seem to be entirely outside the awareness zone of most of WoW's players). Often its a complaint ("it's too easy to level up in WoW!" "There's not enough penalty for dying!") which just seems weird to me.

Rep grinding... well they changed the way it usually works because of the addition of daily quests. Most reps nowadays cannot be ground by killing lots of mobs. Instead you have to do the same few quests over and over again once per day. It's still a grind, but it's a different kind of grind (that sometimes involves wrestling dragons to death in mid-air). Another set of reps get leveled by doing dungeons, although you get to choose which one goes up no matter what dungeon you're doing. Overall, its pretty streamlined. And heck, I've already gotten exalted with most of them in less than two months...

Not that it really matters since most of them have completely useless rewards. The only thing vaguely worth reaching exalted with is Sons of Hodir.

Anyway, WoW obviously has a grind, heck that's the entire point of the genre. Without a grind, no one would ever play. It just has less (compared to pretty much everything that came before it). I suppose more modern MMOs are being designed with "less grind = more success" as a known possible consideration, but WoW started that trend, at the very least. And is considerably less grindy than all the free Korean MMOs I've played.
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Old 2009-01-17, 12:14   Link #2238
DarkestHour
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KILL ARTHAS THE LICH KING...(U WISH) xD

i wish there was a ppl will kill Arthas.. xD

illidan is so fatal pawning by ppl xD
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Old 2009-01-17, 12:51   Link #2239
krisslanza
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Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
Actually, most of the people I've heard say it was less grindy were comparing it to Everquest and other western MMOs (Korean MMOs seem to be entirely outside the awareness zone of most of WoW's players). Often its a complaint ("it's too easy to level up in WoW!" "There's not enough penalty for dying!") which just seems weird to me.

Rep grinding... well they changed the way it usually works because of the addition of daily quests. Most reps nowadays cannot be ground by killing lots of mobs. Instead you have to do the same few quests over and over again once per day. It's still a grind, but it's a different kind of grind (that sometimes involves wrestling dragons to death in mid-air). Another set of reps get leveled by doing dungeons, although you get to choose which one goes up no matter what dungeon you're doing. Overall, its pretty streamlined. And heck, I've already gotten exalted with most of them in less than two months...

Not that it really matters since most of them have completely useless rewards. The only thing vaguely worth reaching exalted with is Sons of Hodir.

Anyway, WoW obviously has a grind, heck that's the entire point of the genre. Without a grind, no one would ever play. It just has less (compared to pretty much everything that came before it). I suppose more modern MMOs are being designed with "less grind = more success" as a known possible consideration, but WoW started that trend, at the very least. And is considerably less grindy than all the free Korean MMOs I've played.
Well it goes without saying WoW would be less grindy then a free game. I mean if you have to pay for it wouldn't you prefer not having to do a L2-style grind anymore?

Free games on the other hand rely on their optional 'Cash' items to survive. And these are mostly always aimed to helping reduce grind or the like.
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Old 2009-01-17, 13:21   Link #2240
RWBladewing
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I tried that free Mabinogi mmo once. The ads showed these total badass anime warriors and said you could do pretty much anything you wanted. My actual character looked like a stick figure I could draw in MS paint and my gameplay consisted of running around punching foxes. Yeah, I'll stick to WoW for now.
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