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View Poll Results: Toradora! - Episode 16 Rating
Perfect 10 108 61.02%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 47 26.55%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 10 5.65%
7 out of 10 : Good 8 4.52%
6 out of 10 : Average 3 1.69%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 0.56%
Voters: 177. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-01-22, 09:13   Link #41
Kinny Riddle
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This series continues to amaze me, despite the lack of any supernatural or mecha related stuff, which seems to be the staple of anime these days.

When I first read the part up to where Taiga pulled out her wooden blade in the novel, I was still stunned shitless at what she was about to do. Sumire's unexpected reaction afterwards also revealed that she's just as insecure as Kitamura, despite the perfect facade she normally puts up. Instead of thinking she's gone out of character, I now appreciate Sumire even more knowing that she's also human.

At first I thought they cut out the part with Sumire receiving Taiga's postcard, but was relieved they inserted that as an epilogue after the credits. (Also, Sumire with ponytail FTW. ) Pity we won't be seeing any more of Sumire in the near future.

As I've only read up to volume 6 of the novels, the following is all my nonsensical speculation: This may or may not mean Kitamura's now fully committed himself to Sumire, after her confession of her feelings. So now it seems Taiga's come to terms with that fact and has moved on, probably towards Ryuji, without even herself knowing it.

While she still keeps a photo of her dancing with Kitamura in her student handbook as a facade, it's obvious that the second photo hidden underneath that (which Ami saw and Minori caught a glimpse of) is that of Taiga and Ryuji.

Ami's "taunt" towards Minori afterwards about Minori feeling less guilty was actually followed by Ami regretting saying that in the novel, but that was removed in this episode for some reason. That really affected how the audience would view Ami's character.
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Old 2009-01-22, 09:25   Link #42
houkoholic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by typhonsentra View Post
Huh? I'm not ignoring anything.
I didn't say you are ignoring anything, but just highlighting the jealous part is misleading.

Quote:
There's no text like that in the English translation of that scene:

Nothing like what you described is mentioned (Ami being angry with Minori being carefree.), is there a problem with the wiki?
You're missing out on the context. You quoted some of the text, but without understanding the context of it.

Spoiler:
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Old 2009-01-22, 09:48   Link #43
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waiting...................................for the subs

but i think it gonna be a quite good ep

cant wait to see what kitamura will do?
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Old 2009-01-22, 09:50   Link #44
typhonsentra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houkoholic View Post
I didn't say you are ignoring anything, but just highlighting the jealous part is misleading.



You're missing out on the context. You quoted some of the text, but without understanding the context of it.

Spoiler:
I understand where you're coming from, but there is a difference between what she did to Minori and the other provocations:

Spoiler:
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Old 2009-01-22, 09:52   Link #45
roan
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Originally Posted by houkoholic View Post
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
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Old 2009-01-22, 11:04   Link #46
apr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roan View Post
Spoiler:
Same.
Spoiler:
I haven't actually been following the anime, just talking to friends who do, and this episode makes it apparent that the anime studio has simply failed. Everywhere I look (here, blogs, even 2ch) people are asking "what guilt?" and the novel readers have to come out and fill in the gaps. I think they've stuffed the show too full of pop culture jokes while skimping on important plot bits.
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Old 2009-01-22, 12:48   Link #47
SageGaiGar
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Originally Posted by apr View Post
Same.
Spoiler:
I haven't actually been following the anime, just talking to friends who do, and this episode makes it apparent that the anime studio has simply failed. Everywhere I look (here, blogs, even 2ch) people are asking "what guilt?" and the novel readers have to come out and fill in the gaps. I think they've stuffed the show too full of pop culture jokes while skimping on important plot bits.
Spoiler for Ami:
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Old 2009-01-22, 14:33   Link #48
Deathkillz
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Sorry...I tried to like this arc...I really did ;____;
Spoiler:
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Old 2009-01-22, 15:52   Link #49
wistfulloner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathkillz View Post
Sorry...I tried to like this arc...I really did ;____;
Spoiler:
For your rant on Kitamura, I felt the same way at first, until I read Vexx's post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Read up on "Peter Pan" syndrome... young people who have too much pressure put on them sometimes act out and revert to childish ways (especially during a crisis) --- the idea of growing up, much less not quite the way you envisioned is scary.

Kitamura had just planned out a certain future in his mind (that included a certain someone). When that future was made impossible - he freaked out.
You can't blame it on him really, Sumire was someone more important to him than anyone else, something like a shining beacon in a tumultuous ocean. And how would you react to a brick wall when it comes to love?

And as for your second part on Taiga; unless you intend to drone on and on about the moral implications of beating up your senior, I don't have to remind you that this IS an anime. Stuff which happens there are not real life cases, and are only used to bring out the meanings and emotions. So don't complain how violent Taiga is; instead start thinking of what she felt when she did that. You might actually be able to appreciate this episode more that way.

The degeneration of the animation quality was, IMHO quite fitting to the moment. Would you look like a bunch of roses after participating in a fist-fight?
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Old 2009-01-22, 16:56   Link #50
aldw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wistfulloner View Post
For your rant on Kitamura, I felt the same way at first, until I read Vexx's post:



You can't blame it on him really, Sumire was someone more important to him than anyone else, something like a shining beacon in a tumultuous ocean. And how would you react to a brick wall when it comes to love?

And as for your second part on Taiga; unless you intend to drone on and on about the moral implications of beating up your senior, I don't have to remind you that this IS an anime. Stuff which happens there are not real life cases, and are only used to bring out the meanings and emotions. So don't complain how violent Taiga is; instead start thinking of what she felt when she did that. You might actually be able to appreciate this episode more that way.

The degeneration of the animation quality was, IMHO quite fitting to the moment. Would you look like a bunch of roses after participating in a fist-fight?
Stupider and crazier things happen in real life all the time, what Taiga did in all honesty isn't that far from what people in real life end up doing. In a way I almost have to applaud Taiga's passion here, even if it seemed outlandish in certain moments.
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Old 2009-01-22, 17:27   Link #51
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apr View Post
I haven't actually been following the anime, just talking to friends who do, and this episode makes it apparent that the anime studio has simply failed. Everywhere I look (here, blogs, even 2ch) people are asking "what guilt?" and the novel readers have to come out and fill in the gaps. I think they've stuffed the show too full of pop culture jokes while skimping on important plot bits.
Hey, maybe you should watch the show and make up your own mind before stating that the studio has "failed".

Ami's comment should probably become more apparent in the next arc anyway. It's called foreshadowing.

Also, the only pop culture jokes come from Minorin, and I'm pretty sure most of those are in the novels anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nojay View Post
I've not read the light novels but the Wikipedia summary lists a bunch of characters who have not made the cut into the anime (Sumire's sister, for example).
Sakura Kanou can be seen in episodes 13 and 14.

She only really shows up in the Spin-Off, in any case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathkillz View Post
Sorry...I tried to like this arc...I really did ;____;
Spoiler:
Stop watching now. Trust me, just stop watching now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinny Riddle View Post
Ami's "taunt" towards Minori afterwards about Minori feeling less guilty was actually followed by Ami regretting saying that in the novel, but that was removed in this episode for some reason. That really affected how the audience would view Ami's character.
They'll probably add something in later to make up for it. They've done that before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wistfulloner View Post
The degeneration of the animation quality was, IMHO quite fitting to the moment. Would you look like a bunch of roses after participating in a fist-fight?
I think that may have been the point, yeah.
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Old 2009-01-22, 18:07   Link #52
SageGaiGar
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A lot of anime has it's 'quality' moments during fight scenes. It's either to save budget or make it more fluid, we're not exactly expected to pause in the middle of the scene and gawk at the crappy artwork. It's kind of nitpicking. In a way I've felt this entire show hasn't been absolutely high quality. But I'm not expecting to be wowed by the visuals here as long as the storyline keeps charging along.

I felt it worked with the scene, especially if you consider how broken down the two combatants were.
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Old 2009-01-22, 18:12   Link #53
Vexx
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I volunteer a lot in high school as I work towards my teaching cert.... I've seen all this acted out in real life (emo-drama, insane behavior, "ooc", classroom fights over quite trivial things).

Teen brains are flooded with hormones during adolescence.... they're "insane" by adult standards. Its a bit difficult to write any of this off as un-realistic....

hell, I just attended the funeral recently of a 19yr old who killed himself because things just weren't going well... I knew his parents, they were good people, worked hard raising kids. That one just got lost in a bad moment.
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Old 2009-01-23, 00:46   Link #54
wistfulloner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinny Riddle View Post
Ami's "taunt" towards Minori afterwards about Minori feeling less guilty was actually followed by Ami regretting saying that in the novel, but that was removed in this episode for some reason. That really affected how the audience would view Ami's character.
Was it really a taunt? Or was Ami trying to be the "good guy" acting mature and telling Minori to stop preventing herself from chasing love?

After that speech, Minori may have been more relieved than troubled.
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Old 2009-01-23, 02:09   Link #55
Deathkillz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aldw View Post
Stupider and crazier things happen in real life all the time, what Taiga did in all honesty isn't that far from what people in real life end up doing. In a way I almost have to applaud Taiga's passion here, even if it seemed outlandish in certain moments.
I call that stupid rage.

Just because Taiga "doesn't value" (note the quotes) her own privacy doesn't mean she has the right to drag Sumire down to her level right? And that by no means does it make Sumire anymore shallow that Taiga for keeping her problems to herself as we hear her true feelings on the situation after the rumble. Ganted that the end result made the situation better going to such extreme is highly uncalled for. Even (or should I say especially) for a school themed anime some realism is inevitably reflected here and knowing that crazier things than this really do happen in real life doesn't make it any better. What is wrong is wrong whether in real life or reflected in anime (while some wrongs are intended for "fantasy story purposes" we have cases like these where it is realistically possible).

Whether Taiga did do it for the sake of Kitamura as she saw how hurt he was without recieving a reply from inevitably or for her own feelings of betrayal (like how the one she loves confessed to another girl but rather than that girl being happy and jumping to the occasion she was just "playing around" leading him into severe depression) I still don't agree with violence in this certain situation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
I volunteer a lot in high school as I work towards my teaching cert.... I've seen all this acted out in real life (emo-drama, insane behavior, "ooc", classroom fights over quite trivial things).

Teen brains are flooded with hormones during adolescence.... they're "insane" "Plain-ass-stupid" by adult standards. Its a bit difficult to write any of this off as un-realistic....

hell, I just attended the funeral recently of a 19yr old who killed himself because things just weren't going well... I knew his parents, they were good people, worked hard raising kids. That one just got lost in a bad moment.
Yare, yare...

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Old 2009-01-23, 02:49   Link #56
Vexx
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No... actually "insane". That was a near quote from psychologists who specialize in the teenage brain. During adolescence, the brain is drenched in hormones (chemicals) at a level only matched by the initial CNS eruption during fetal development.
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Old 2009-01-23, 04:04   Link #57
Waven
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Nature certainly gotta improve the side effects here, it's unbearable for teenagers

back to topic: subs are here hooray
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Old 2009-01-23, 04:57   Link #58
Bordix
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Hmm....gonna re watch this again. Didn't quite "feel" this episode.

Anyways, Does anybody know what was the picture underneath the picture of Taiga and Kitamura holding hands?

If it's really that "spoilerish" just pm me, thanks
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Old 2009-01-23, 04:59   Link #59
ipernorris
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What a wonderful chicks' match!!!
It was shown even the blood: it has been a very long time since I've seen blood on a woman in anime, in a "normal" one at least (not horror or something along these lines I mean).
The last part of this episode became a shounen!
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Old 2009-01-23, 05:03   Link #60
Kikuchi
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Bordix > I didn't read the novel (at least not until there, I stopped at the holiday arc), but I'm ready to bet it's a picture with Ryuji.
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