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View Poll Results: Toradora! - Episode 16 Rating
Perfect 10 108 61.02%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 47 26.55%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 10 5.65%
7 out of 10 : Good 8 4.52%
6 out of 10 : Average 3 1.69%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 0.56%
Voters: 177. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-01-26, 05:13   Link #201
Darknemo2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nvenya View Post
I think what you're referring to is companionate love. I'm not quite certain what Darknemo2000 is upset about though. I don't believe that the type of love one is in has to remain the same, nor do I see a problem with it changing suddenly as long as it's believable. Thus friendship can change into companionate love and then into consummate love(romance being a part of this type) like it did in the anime Lovely Complex.

At least I think that's what is being referred to here.
Oh I do agree that Lovely Complex is a romance... But not before their perception changes, and if you look at it their perception changes very soon, thus allowing to build up a romantic relationship.

In toradora we are at episode 16 and the perception of their relationship is the same (few minor differences here and there but nothing that would indicate a real romance) which is about two similar spirit bond.

However spirit bond is not a romance. I feel a great spiritual bond with my friend but do not want to kiss him or hold him.

I do not question that the switch is impossible or anything like that - it can really switch, but in Toradora's case they spend teh majority of part of it exploring the bound that is not a romance by any means.

Now siwitching to a romance and creating a climax over the teen drama coming from it, looks forced considering that the majority of this show is not about romance, but about a spiritual bond.

Building spiritual bond is not building a romance. And no it cannot be considered as necessarily continuity of the same relationship. Like some sort of prelude. The spiritual bond and romance are two different relationships.

For me saying that one necessarily leads/builds up to another is the same as saying that everything since my birth were just build up for a romance which would be silly (though poets like such hyperbole).

Like I ate egg and this was an build up to the romance relationship I had after 13 years, because if I haven't I would not have done exact the same strings of events that lead me to that particular place with that particular person.

Guess in this case is where my difference with Vexx lies as I view a romantic relationship to be a relationship new in quality and perception than a relationship of spiritual bond. The switch can happen between one and another, but its not necessarily progression at all. Meaning that there is no necessarily continuity we still have to face the fact that spiritual bond does not necessarily lead to a romance, meaning that romance depends on other things rather than just progression of spiritual bond.

Romance can appear even without proper build up of a relationship and the bond is found while already in it, here however, author shows two separate relationships and hopes that we would see a continuity between the spiritual bond and romance, but they are two different forms of relationship and within romantic relationship your perception upon the things change quite a bid, so for this relationship to have stronger ground it has to be build up on it's own properly instead of linking to the past and saying that it was a build up for a romance, while it really does not indicate romance but the spiritual bond.

In Toradora's we have an exploration of the spiritual bond but we have no real romance between the two protagonists and most likely we will never see a romantic relationship between them, as it will end up with a romantic switch.

I guess for me such switch looks more like a forced attempt to build up climax of the drama rather than natural outcome of the events.
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Old 2009-01-26, 07:27   Link #202
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Why do these episode threads turn out so off-topic after a while, eh?

Edit ADD: It's kinda funny how we can't seem to comment on these threads without incurring the wrath of some sycophant youth who seems to think that, by bestowing one with negative reputation, he/she/it will gain favor with some sort of higher being. Even funnier when said person (?) has no reputation points to give.
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Last edited by BetoJR; 2009-01-26 at 12:38.
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Old 2009-01-26, 08:56   Link #203
wistfulloner
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Perhaps its because Toradora is so addictive, maddened viewers need to find something to talk about in between episodes.

I'll admit, I'm guilty of that too
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Old 2009-01-26, 12:49   Link #204
Vexx
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Not to belabor the point but "romance" actually has a fairly broad meaning, which may explain our differing views:
Quote:
Merriam-Webster
Main Entry: 1ro·mance
Pronunciation: \rō-ˈman(t)s, rə-; ˈrō-ˌ\
Function: noun
Etymology:
Middle English romauns, from Anglo-French romanz French, narrative in French, from Medieval Latin Romanice in a vernacular (as opposed to Latin), from Late Latin Romanus Gallo-Romance speaker (as opposed to a Frank), from Latin, Roman
Date:14th century 1 a (1): a medieval tale based on legend, chivalric love and adventure, or the supernatural (2): a prose narrative treating imaginary characters involved in events remote in time or place and usually heroic, adventurous, or mysterious (3): a love story especially in the form of a novel b: a class of such literature
2: something (as an extravagant story or account) that lacks basis in fact
3: an emotional attraction or aura belonging to an especially heroic era, adventure, or activity
4: love affair
5 capitalized : the Romance languages
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Old 2009-01-26, 15:14   Link #205
typhonsentra
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I say we also add in more on the etymology while we're at it.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?...earchmode=none
Quote:
romance Look up romance at Dictionary.com
c.1300, "story of a hero's adventures," also (c.1330), "vernacular language of France" (as opposed to Latin), from O.Fr. romanz "verse narrative," originally an adverb, "in the vernacular language," from V.L. *romanice scribere "to write in a Romance language" (one developed from Latin instead of Frankish), from L. Romanicus "of or in the Roman style," from Romanus "Roman" (see Roman). The connecting notion is that medieval vernacular tales were usually about chivalric adventure. Literary sense extended by 1667 to "a love story." Extended 1612 to other modern languages derived from Latin (Spanish, Italian, etc.). Meaning "adventurous quality" first recorded 1801; that of "love affair, idealistic quality" is from 1916. The verb meaning "court as a lover" is from 1942.
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Old 2009-01-26, 15:44   Link #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wistfulloner View Post
Perhaps its because Toradora is so addictive, maddened viewers need to find something to talk about in between episodes.

I'll admit, I'm guilty of that too
Me too.

But people should respect more the rules and go to specific threads.
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Old 2009-01-26, 16:13   Link #207
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Wow-

I just started watching this series upon a recommendation and....
Wow....
I'm not into romance comedies (LoveCom was the only other series I've watched) much but I really like this series. Far more entertaining.
But we can't really call this a romance series, can we? It's far to early in the season to see what developed between the main characters.
Anyway, my only comments to this episode is
Spoiler for :

I'm looking forward to the next episodes.
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Last edited by Stahlwolf; 2009-01-27 at 05:49.
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Old 2009-01-26, 16:24   Link #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
In Toradora's we have an exploration of the spiritual bond but we have no real romance between the two protagonists and most likely we will never see a romantic relationship between them, as it will end up with a romantic switch.
I love how you continue to make definitive statements about books that haven't been released yet.
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Old 2009-01-26, 23:23   Link #209
physics223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stahlwolf View Post
Wow-

I just started watching this series upon a recommendation and....
Wow....
I'm not into romance comedies (LoveCom was the only other series I've watched) much but I really like this series. Far more entertaining.
But we can't really call this a romance series, can we? It's far to early in the season to see what developed between the main characters.
Anyway, my only comments to this episode is
Spoiler for :

I'm looking forward to the next episodes.
In case you're looking for a wonderful romance series, check out Honey and Clover.
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Old 2009-01-27, 02:12   Link #210
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Toradora has been one of the biggest surprise in a very long time for me. This episode prove that Toradora is going to get alot of love from R1, hopefully soon (I know on Youtube that one of the VA from Nanohi, was doing VA for Taiga on a short clip) so people is taken notice to this.

But what Kitamura did in front of the school takes alot of courage and even know that he knew that his feeling wouldnt been answer, he take that step anyway that takes courage. Even, Taiga fight with Sumire show me how much she really love Kitamura alot, even know that she knows that Kitamura would never love her. Ryuuji show great mature as well, and there not too many leading males would that as well. At the end too with exchange between Ami and Minorin was done perfect.

Seriously, I dont really think it will be another series like this for a very long time that is very good.
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Old 2009-01-27, 09:52   Link #211
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awesome episode i'd say,but i have been thinking.After watching this ep,it seem that Kawashima Ami and Minori are in love with Kitamura too.Do u think so ?
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Old 2009-01-27, 09:57   Link #212
Fran~
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Originally Posted by lokimc View Post
awesome episode i'd say,but i have been thinking.After watching this ep,it seem that Kawashima Ami and Minori are in love with Kitamura too.Do u think so ?
No... Amin falled for Ryuuji... and Minori probably too...
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Old 2009-01-27, 09:58   Link #213
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Originally Posted by lokimc View Post
awesome episode i'd say,but i have been thinking.After watching this ep,it seem that Kawashima Ami and Minori are in love with Kitamura too.Do u think so ?
No, no. I think you mixed some things up in your understanding... Fran is telling the truth.
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Old 2009-01-27, 10:20   Link #214
Fran~
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The question now is if Kitamura would move on from his love for Sumire and he would be looking for someone else...

The trouble here is that Kitamura thinks that Ryuuji and Taiga are really close and Taiga already rejected him once, so i dont think that he would run to Taiga's arms. It's the same with Minori who thinked in Ryuuji and Taiga and for that reason she is not sincere with her feelings for Ryuuji.

This situation is the typical one where a couple of friends is seen by everybody as "lovers" and no one wants to interfere between them. The only person selfish enough to not follow that trend is Amin, but Minori and Kitamura would not dare to.
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Old 2009-01-27, 11:40   Link #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fran~ View Post
The question now is if Kitamura would move on from his love for Sumire and he would be looking for someone else...
Actually, i wonder if Kitamura has to get over his love for Sumire. Kitamura is very smart he could easily get into a US university near Sumire. He also overheard her saying that she had to resist asking him to follow her because she knew he would. Just because shes not there right now does not mean that he cant be with her later. Kitamura and crew only have 1 year of high school left.

Not saying its going to happen but it is option and as much as Kitamura claimed he loved Sumire i dont think he will be that quick to get over her, if they try to pair him with someone right away it will feel false and forced and i would like Toradora to avoid that.
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Old 2009-01-27, 11:59   Link #216
Fran~
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Hmmm, Toradora is quite "realistic" about "life issues" take for instance Taiga's Dad, he was always an asshole, in a "happy unrealistic anime" he would be a real father. So i think that maybe we wont see Kitamura chasing Sumire. He already said good bye after Taiga's and Sumire's fight.

I think that he will move on... Taiga showed her feelings already... so...


let's see...
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Old 2009-01-27, 12:09   Link #217
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Originally Posted by Fran~ View Post
Hmmm, Toradora is quite "realistic" about "life issues" take for instance Taiga's Dad, he was always an asshole, in a "happy unrealistic anime" he would be a real father. So i think that maybe we wont see Kitamura chasing Sumire. He already said good bye after Taiga's and Sumire's fight.

I think that he will move on... Taiga showed her feelings already... so...


let's see...
Could be possible but if they jump him from one girl to another quickly i wont like it at all.
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Old 2009-01-27, 12:45   Link #218
Fran~
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I'm not talking about of that, i'm talking about just move on and open his mind and remember Sumire as his first love...
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Old 2009-01-27, 13:51   Link #219
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Originally Posted by lokimc View Post
awesome episode i'd say,but i have been thinking.After watching this ep,it seem that Kawashima Ami and Minori are in love with Kitamura too.Do u think so ?
WTF , do you really watch the anime huh
Lol ! Joking BUT you are wrong
Look more closer at the situation now

For kitamura , maybe he's courageous but look his situation , he is the council president (don't remember what is he) , so he got the experience to talks with pupils and he's popular in the school , also he got more courage to express oneself compared to a student who some people didn't know !(but just a few people have the guts )
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Old 2009-01-27, 14:19   Link #220
Fran~
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And remember, there is one of the girls who called him "Maruo" who also loves him. Kitamura is not the lonely crappy schoolboy, like a Kenji Harima.
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