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Old 2009-01-26, 23:36   Link #1
Ottocycle
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Kyoto Animation: Studio discussion, speculation, and whatnot.

I saw a Gonzo thread, so I guessed why not.

Many a time I've seen a KyoAni series discussion degenerate into speculation for one of their highly desired sequels/remakes/whatever. Well since these discussions have no place around here(I tried searching, too many results), I made one.

Be it Haruhi, Key, FMP or Munto(le gasp!) fans, enjoy yourselves.

To kick off, anyone notice how people only noticed the animation studio of a series after the emergence of KyoAni?
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Old 2009-01-26, 23:40   Link #2
0utf0xZer0
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One of the things that I find fascinating about Kyoto Animation is it's ability to polarize people into gushing fanboys and haters. Seems to be a pretty strong correlation between a person's opinion of KyoAni and their opinion of moe, too.

I got into Kyoto Animation stuff pretty early in my anime watching, so I did notice studio a lot more after becoming familiar with them - but it's not like I had much of an opportunity to notice studio previously.
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Old 2009-01-26, 23:45   Link #3
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Lately I'm finding this to be occurring less though, since it's clear that they have set a new bar in terms of TV animation detail(which is what is causing the polarising), and ever since then, other studios have either been catching up, and they are the ones who have been stagnant.
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Old 2009-01-26, 23:46   Link #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by humbug23 View Post

To kick off, anyone notice how people only noticed the animation studio of a series after the emergence of KyoAni?
I don't know how one could not notice.

Regarding the fanboyism vs. the haters thing, I've definitely noticed a sharp drop-off in defensive fanboyism, but with regard to the haters, it almost seems like it's cool to give them a hard time about stuff that's out of their control right now such as the Haruhi and Full Metal Panic license, which actually belong to Kadokawa Shoten along with Lucky Star. There's really not much they can do if Kadokawa doesn't give them the go ahead to make another adaptation for these two series so it's little wonder that they turn to Key and Munto instead. I say they need to find more diverse partners, but eh...
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Old 2009-01-27, 00:03   Link #5
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I certainly think that a certain demand is being stoked with the passing of time, and it should be nothing more than a business and marketing decision.

I'm willing to bet that their risk assessment won't turn out to be high, since there's a certain pedigree(is that the word?) that fans definitely expect. Look at the budget for Clannad AS! What a far cry from the crispness of AIR. Not a bad thing to me though.
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Old 2009-01-27, 00:27   Link #6
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Well you do have to keep in mind that Clannad does have 4 times as much episodes than AIR, so the budget is probably being spread and thinned out much more in Clannad.

KyoAni has been growing pretty steadily these past couple of years so it'll be interesting to see their development as a studio in the upcoming future imo. Back during Kanon, i still remember the anxiousness of fans whether they were ready to tackle a full 2 cour season or not. Now look at em, Munto and Clannad AS both airing at once with a little youtube side-project soon to boot as well.
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Last edited by brocko; 2009-01-27 at 20:28.
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Old 2009-01-27, 01:10   Link #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
I don't know how one could not notice.

Regarding the fanboyism vs. the haters thing, I've definitely noticed a sharp drop-off in defensive fanboyism, but with regard to the haters, it almost seems like it's cool to give them a hard time about stuff that's out of their control right now such as the Haruhi and Full Metal Panic license, which actually belong to Kadokawa Shoten along with Lucky Star. There's really not much they can do if Kadokawa doesn't give them the go ahead to make another adaptation for these two series so it's little wonder that they turn to Key and Munto instead. I say they need to find more diverse partners, but eh...
Maybe it's just my memory bias towards controversy, but reading something that level headed about studio fanboyism coming from you had me wondering if hell had frozen over.

I think the Haruhi one just bugs people because they keep announcing it and then doing nothing.
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Old 2009-01-27, 01:11   Link #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by humbug23 View Post
To kick off, anyone notice how people only noticed the animation studio of a series after the emergence of KyoAni?
Can't agree with that, Gainax had legions of fanboys with Eva and than FLCL who made KyoAni fanboys look tame in comparison. Sunrise were always well known, same with Madhouse and Bones quickly made a name for themselves with RahXephon, Wolf's Rain and especially Full Metal Alchemist.
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Old 2009-01-27, 01:19   Link #9
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Originally Posted by humbug23 View Post
To kick off, anyone notice how people only noticed the animation studio of a series after the emergence of KyoAni?
Actually, they have Key to thank for. Seriously.
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Old 2009-01-27, 01:23   Link #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post

I think the Haruhi one just bugs people because they keep announcing it and then doing nothing.
That's sort of more Newtype magazine's fault which is of course a division of Kadokawa publishing. This is a company I have found has a history of getting ahead of itself with marketing campaigns. I mean their whole monthly Gundam episode summaries and latest anime announcement plugs that they do to give people an added incentive to buy the next issue are actually advertisements for future advertisements for a product when you get down to it.
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Old 2009-01-27, 01:47   Link #11
Ottocycle
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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Can't agree with that, Gainax had legions of fanboys with Eva and than FLCL who made KyoAni fanboys look tame in comparison. Sunrise were always well known, same with Madhouse and Bones quickly made a name for themselves with RahXephon, Wolf's Rain and especially Full Metal Alchemist.
Honestly I don't quite see that nowadays, maybe they're Eva fanboys rather than Gainax fanboys, and also the fact that they've grown up. I am not old enough to see that crowd at their prime, so I can't say much, and Madhouse and Bones has always had fans, but not fanboys from my point of view.

Well it could be a trend thing, and now it's just another studio by the name of KyoAni? Maybe it's got something to do with the proliferation of the internet and fansubs as well, such that it made the phenomenon more pronounced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShimatheKat View Post
Actually, they have Key to thank for. Seriously.
What does Gatoh Shouji count for then? Don't forget Fumoffu is the first show that fans took notice of in a big way, not AIR.
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Old 2009-01-27, 01:57   Link #12
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What does Gatoh Shouji count for then? Don't forget Fumoffu is the first show that fans took notice of in a big way, not AIR.
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Old 2009-01-27, 09:37   Link #13
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Carrying over a discussion from an earlier thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShimatheKat View Post
Some commercial pointers to think about.

1. How profitable is Haruhi [or more specifically, Tanigawa's works] compared to the Key-Kyoani relationship?
2. What is the total audience that Tanigawa-Haruhi and Key will reach respectively?
3. Does the partnership constantly provide more milking opportunities?
4. How long will the partnership be able to last?
5. Does Kyoani feel that it is able to create a success every time with the partnership?


Think about it, and respond.
Hmm, you made me think all right.

Let's see.

1. Of course Key has been more profitable overall, but that's simply because it has had 3 anime releases (4 if you count Clannad and Clannad After Story as separate). Haruhi has had merely 1 anime release, but that one has become a massive phenomenon in the anime fan's world. Just one season. So comparing it fairly to individual Key anime releases, it triumphs.

2. It depends. But mostly Haruhi fans have spread like fuel on a floor ever since the first season release. I say fuel because a second season release would be more than sufficient to "ignite" that fuel and sweep success from that huge audience. Key audiences are also large, especially in Japan, don't get me wrong. Key stories are famous for their sad "crying stories" and beautiful characters. I myself can't get enough Key anime series. but Haruhi is, as I said, a phenomenon. No doubt it has a bigger audience than each individual Key anime on average.

3. I have to say Key's visual novels have so much more story space for anime than the Haruhi novels. In that case, it is justified for more Key series to be released, thus more milking opportunities. However, the Haruhi novels have been delayed enough; there is much more than enough story material for a second season. Key can still be adopted, it's just prime time for more Haruhi!

4. I don't really know how to answer this because I don't have much knowledge on the terms of these company partnerships. Sorry. Can you please clarify this part for me?

5. I think I answered this question on #2. Both partnerships are almost guaranteed for success, but a second Haruhi season would probably bring about a bigger success.

If I said anything wrong, please correct me. And tell me your thoughts and facts on this matter, because I'd love to know.
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Old 2009-01-27, 09:43   Link #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by humbug23 View Post
Honestly I don't quite see that nowadays, maybe they're Eva fanboys rather than Gainax fanboys, and also the fact that they've grown up. I am not old enough to see that crowd at their prime, so I can't say much,


I am old enough to remember why the Eva movies came out (raging fanboys pressure and all), it just tell how rabid they were. The aftereffects can be still felt over thirteen years later.
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Old 2009-01-27, 12:21   Link #15
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Originally Posted by Tempester View Post
Carrying over a discussion from an earlier thread:

Spoiler for long:




If I said anything wrong, please correct me. And tell me your thoughts and facts on this matter, because I'd love to know.

OK I see. I was actually looking out for responses since I wanted to know the ground feelings on this, not just the commercial viewpoint.

But still, I'd answer the questions.
From a commercial view.

1. I know that Haruhi is a standalone series, and Key has had 3 works [CLANNAD is just one loooong work spread over 4 cours.] But the average... yeah, you COULD say that Haruhi sells better when you add in the miscellaneous goods like figurines, shirts, mugs, armbands... BUT you've got to realize that Haruhi, once Vol. 10 comes out, is finished, and Tanigawa has no incentive to work with Kyoani again, not right now. Or ever. Kyoani doesn't have the financial means either to woo him further... I guess.

2. You realise that Haruhi is more geared towards moderate to extreme otakus, almost like Lucky Star, whereas AIR and Kanon were for shoujo market, and CLANNAD a family-friendly series? [At least, outside the main cities of Tokyo to Fukuoka, much like BosWash, but we call it Taiheiyo Belt] So, Key still has slight advantage for now. But LB seems to be geared differently, might even clash with Haruhi.

3. Haruhi? No, not really. Again, once V10 is out, that's the end of the script. But Key is always creating new games. Which equates to more material to work on. This also answers 4.

5. Well, honestly, either way, yes.
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Old 2009-01-27, 14:32   Link #16
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Haruhi and the 10th book are still speculative as to if it is final or not. With the dragged out nature of its release, it seems like it will be so, however we do not know. The story in and of itself does not suggest an ending from what I understand.

The internal relationship between Tanigawa and Kyoto is not public knowledge to my understanding. Rumors fly on that all the time to the point where one will believe what they want to believe based on their mindset (optimist-pessimist). In reality...we don't know.

We do know that the Youtubed based Haruhi-chan anime is coming out is about three weeks (February 13th)...so that is another Kyoto Animation Project.

We don't know how long Munto (TV) will last. I don't recall hearing an episode count for it other than it will be more than just the remastered OVAs.

We aren't even sure how the episodes will end up for Clannad After Story. Will the story run its course by the end of Ep.22 and we get two OVA-like specials, or does it run the full 24 for the season...or does it get a full 26 episode run?

We also have no clue what KyoAni will do later this year, if anything at all. They could move on with their proposed Disappearance of Haruhi series as advertised a few years ago. They could make 801-chan that was "cancelled". They could be gearing up for Little Busters, a Planetarium Movie...Tomoyo After even on the Key front. They could surprise the hell out of everyone and do more Full Metal Panic!

Did anyone every find out just what studio is making K-On?
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Old 2009-01-27, 14:38   Link #17
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But Key is always creating new games. Which equates to more material to work on. This also answers 4.
Key releases a single full length new game every +-2 years, which doesn't sounds like an steady source of revenue for me Not to mention KyoAni is about to run out of Key franchises before reaching Rewrite.
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Old 2009-01-27, 15:31   Link #18
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With Yutaka Yamamoto's departure, Kyoto Animation isn't as appealing as before.

So what if the animation is generally consistent? The direction is already changed.
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Old 2009-01-27, 15:42   Link #19
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Actually, before Lucky Star Yamamoto had little involvement in Kyoani's direction work beyond storyboarding, an episode director for 2 or 3 episodes and being an assistant director for Munto 2, so my guess is that he bought you with all those Kannagi in gags.
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Old 2009-01-27, 17:15   Link #20
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Key releases a single full length new game every +-2 years, which doesn't sounds like an steady source of revenue for me Not to mention KyoAni is about to run out of Key franchises before reaching Rewrite.
Key easily sells over 10,000 copies per game, not to mention merchandise licensing. Also, eroge work, just like anime, doesn't come with an annual salary.
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