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Old 2009-01-24, 03:35   Link #41
Vexx
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
I just look at it at the local level. If the taxpayers don't want to fork over money for a bond to build a sidewalk so kids stop getting squicked on their way to school.... then a fair chunk of them ought to be willing to put in the volunteer time to free up funds to build it. I get a little exasperated at people who simply don't want to invest in their community (time or money) but they're always ready with a complaint.

People who want a portable health care /single payer /socialized /whatever health plan, I'd like to see them get off their fat ass and be more pro-active since either my insurance costs or my tax costs are driven by their lack of participation in their health.

If a bigshot can charm up a higher level of service and community involvement with his charisma -- what's wrong with that? Its called leadership...

Public service or volunteerism is a win-win overall -- if you improve the community, you're also raising your own quality of life a bit.
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Old 2009-01-24, 04:20   Link #42
TinyRedLeaf
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightbatŪ View Post
I never said I agree with the idiotic wages CEOs and Managers are forking in but

It's very easy for a high paid government public servant to talk about volunteerwork when he writes off every little thing he did "from the bottom of his heart" on his taxreport
Actually, I'm surprised that no one has yet bitched about the salaries of public servants in Singapore. Granted, their pay will be cut between 12 and 20 per cent this year, in line with the worst recession we've seen since independence in 1965, but, hey, that's only one bungalow less for the Prime Minister, who received S$3.76 million (US$2.5 million) last year.

Public service can potentially be very lucrative for Singaporeans, if they climb high enough. But, yes indeed, that is not the discussion here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NightbatŪ
My point is only, do the work because you want it, not because some bigshot spouts it off as 'glamourous'

And ask yourself why there are hundreds of thousands public servants being payed for the job when the government wants the taxpayers to do them themselves for free
I'd like to know why you draw the line between "us" and "them", especially when your government is democratically elected by you.

As I've asked, what does your nation stand for? Does it inspire you to serve? I've asked these specific questions because not every country is like the US, which is characterised by a spirit of public service. While studying in Britain, I had the overwhelming impression that Britons and Europeans are very cynical about their societies and governments. So much so that anyone who even thinks about public service is asking to be ridiculed.

There is nothing about public service that is glamorous at all. If it were, we wouldn't have to persuade people to do it. For that matter, I should add that I've never done volunteer work, short of what was required as part of my school programme. Perhaps I should but, as you correctly point out, there is no point in doing so unless my heart was in it, which it isn't at the moment.

That has not stopped me thinking about other ways I can contribute, in the ways such as Zaris has pointed out.
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Old 2009-01-24, 04:44   Link #43
Aoie_Emesai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
As I've asked, what does your nation stand for? Does it inspire you to serve? I've asked these specific questions because not every country is like the US, which is characterised by a spirit of public service. While studying in Britain, I had the overwhelming impression that Britons and Europeans are very cynical about their societies and governments. So much so that anyone who even thinks about public service is asking to be ridiculed.

There is nothing about public service that is glamorous at all. If it were, we wouldn't have to persuade people to do it. For that matter, I should add that I've never done volunteer work, short of what was required as part of my school programme. Perhaps I should but, as you correctly point out, there is no point in doing so unless my heart was in it, which it isn't at the moment.

That has not stopped me thinking about other ways I can contribute, in the ways such as Zaris has pointed out.
From what I can understand about my nation. It does certain activities behind my back. The amass huge sums of money and say they lost 30% of it. They have a plan to use 50 billion dollars worth of fundings, yet they cannot produce a recipe to show how much they actually spent.

A country full of deceit, is something I cannot pour my soul into protecting. The best I can do is worry about the people closest to me, and protect them. Am I being ignorant and arrogant? Yes, but selfishness is what has brought us this far and I think is the only way to survive.

I can only see the greater good if I myself is one of the primary participant in the activities is directly involved.
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Old 2009-01-24, 05:45   Link #44
Ottocycle
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I think that learning a new skill would be a good way in the broader sense of public service. They might be skills that allow you to take care of people in need(maybe first aid for example), or they might be those which allow you to take care of yourself such that society doesn't have to worry about you (job-specific skills, financial planning, perhaps?).

In my perspective, I think that at least not willfully getting in the way of the community(ie. being a slob getting government unemployment payouts), is already a form of service.
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Old 2009-01-24, 15:17   Link #45
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Originally Posted by humbug23 View Post
I think that learning a new skill would be a good way in the broader sense of public service. They might be skills that allow you to take care of people in need(maybe first aid for example), or they might be those which allow you to take care of yourself such that society doesn't have to worry about you (job-specific skills, financial planning, perhaps?).

In my perspective, I think that at least not willfully getting in the way of the community(ie. being a slob getting government unemployment payouts), is already a form of service.
My profession is Industrial Engineering. As from this profession, at least I have the some of the deciding factor of the project. I plan on improving the system, not to be a leech to society. Well... I hope to.

Another skill... humm...
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Old 2009-01-27, 21:35   Link #46
ZephyrLeanne
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Join Date: Nov 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
Actually, I'm surprised that no one has yet bitched about the salaries of public servants in Singapore. Granted, their pay will be cut between 12 and 20 per cent this year, in line with the worst recession we've seen since independence in 1965, but, hey, that's only one bungalow less for the Prime Minister, who received S$3.76 million (US$2.5 million) last year.
Actually, the biggest part about this is NOT the PM's pay, it's actually the fact hat junior ministers take home $1 million minimum home per annum. No wonder there's no corruption, they don't even need to.
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Old 2009-01-28, 12:44   Link #47
NightbatŪ
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: The Neverlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
I'd like to know why you draw the line between "us" and "them", especially when your government is democratically elected by you.

As I've asked, what does your nation stand for? Does it inspire you to serve? I've asked these specific questions because not every country is like the US, which is characterised by a spirit of public service. While studying in Britain, I had the overwhelming impression that Britons and Europeans are very cynical about their societies and governments. So much so that anyone who even thinks about public service is asking to be ridiculed.

"Democraticly chosen"

Nope, over here parties can 'join' to get the requierd votes to get into parlement.
Ofcouse, they have to compromise their standpoints to be able to form a coalition

so the election spearpoints that inspired me to vote for a certain party can vaporize
within weeks after the election

resulting in me having voted on a party who's only "agenda" was to get into parlement and do whatever the hell they wanted, but don't have to do what they promised

The fact that none of them complained about statesmen recieving a 30% raise when the economy shrunk with 4% and wageincreases were frozen for "the common man"
proved to me just what kind of people actually claim to be "the right person" to run the country

Liberal, labour, rightwing, whatever color they assign themselves, in the end they are only
in it to govern their own pockets

Show me 1 country that has integer politicians and I'll show you a group of very good liars
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Old 2009-01-28, 14:29   Link #48
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
Well, basically you've just defined why I have trouble considering that style of government effective representation of the people ... coalition governments that can be vaporized with a no-confidence vote or snap elections are just a ruddy mess.
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Old 2009-01-28, 15:52   Link #49
0utf0xZer0
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Well, basically you've just defined why I have trouble considering that style of government effective representation of the people ... coalition governments that can be vaporized with a no-confidence vote or snap elections are just a ruddy mess.
Yes, but how do you produce a non-coalition government without using non-proportional representation? Coming from a province where a party has formed a majority government while receiving less of the popular vote than another party, I'm rather skeptical of non-proportional systems.

(Your opinion isn't exactly uncommon though... most Canadians opposed the opposition forming a coalition to take down the federal government recently, despite the fact that the three opposition parties have much more in common with each other than the governing Conservatives and received far more votes last election.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NightbatŪ
The fact that none of them complained about statesmen recieving a 30% raise when the economy shrunk with 4% and wageincreases were frozen for "the common man"
proved to me just what kind of people actually claim to be "the right person" to run the country
You're so cynical... clearly they just want to do their part to spend their way out of the recession.
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