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Old 2009-01-21, 18:23   Link #1241
Tak
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Originally Posted by Father Hentai View Post
I do agree with what you have seen in Rankas character but I guess this is something that no one wants to hear here in the forums nor will you find a lot who would agree on that. I already tried to to argue with that but well... read the last few pages.
Actually, that is something a lot of us want to hear. Why would we disagree with that? Thats what we've been saying about Ranka for the past year!

I don't know why you think people like me would disagree.

- Tak
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Old 2009-01-21, 19:00   Link #1242
Daril Gukku
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Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Actually, that is something a lot of us want to hear. Why would we disagree with that? Thats what we've been saying about Ranka for the past year!

I don't know why you think people like me would disagree.

- Tak
I think maybe he was talking about the part where I said I liked Ranka, found her interesting and she made my top five fave characters in Frontier. Not trying to be argumentative, but that appears to be a pretty rare opinion in this board.
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Old 2009-01-21, 20:28   Link #1243
DeX-kun
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Originally Posted by Daril Gukku View Post
I think maybe he was talking about the part where I said I liked Ranka, found her interesting and she made my top five fave characters in Frontier. Not trying to be argumentative, but that appears to be a pretty rare opinion in this board.
It is a pretty rare opinion, especially on these boards. I'm one of the few that actually find her interesting because although she is immature and pretty naive, she always has instances where she becomes determined, while not strong, she has her positive qualities which attracted me to her character in the first place. Just like Alto himself said about her, in the beginning Alto didn't know what to think of Ranka because she used to say things such as, "I know I can't" or somewhere along those lines but at the same time she was determined to accomplish what she wanted to do, hence her success in singing.
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Old 2009-01-21, 21:34   Link #1244
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Originally Posted by Daril Gukku View Post
Well put her in a real life situation and see what happens--that's exactly what they did with Ranka, show the immaturity and childlike tendencies those characters often have.
In a way, the series has touched on a scenario which I've pondered about, during the moe explosion back then - how the concept behind moe would fare when placed under situations that adhere to the complexity of real-life standards. Although Ranka is unable to break out of the mold, she's regardless one of the best examples of her archtype, and the likelihoods of her becoming the cherished fan-favorite of harem and moe series are extremely high. In Macross Frontier, it shouldn't come as a surprise that moe failed, as it was an extremely idealistic (and I might add, unrealistic) concept that fell apart under the weight of the position that requires it to drive forward the story, especially when handling MF's certain themes.
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Old 2009-02-06, 05:03   Link #1245
Natsuki Hyuga
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Originally Posted by soulassassin547 View Post
As an exception to my tastes, I came here because I'm kinda disappointed with this contest below, which seems to justify character bashing:
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=77363

Looks like the shippers are short of asking the producers to bring her to martyrdom.
I found it funny you blamed the shippers just because of a comment saying Die For Our Ship is what making Ranka hated.

Surely, please check the vocal Sheryl shipper that has voted there-I believe 40-50% only that has voted Ranka, hell, even less (since more characters are way more annoying *coughKazukicoughKoutacough*).

Please, 50-60% of the Ranka voters there hardly ever post in Romance Section, let alone have Sheryl as their favourite character! I can also say that I know that some of them were former Ranka shippers lol. You said that is bashing by Sheryl shippers? I only found a few Sheryl shippers name there voting for Ranka What makes Ranka voted into Worst Character Section? Because she is simply bad in Character Development divison or/and annoying in the latter part.
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Old 2009-02-06, 05:08   Link #1246
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Funny, how that poll was brought up. In my case, the only reason I voted for Ranka was because she was a choice. Suzaku didn't annoy me and the other nominees were from anime shows I didn't watch, so...*shrug*

And really must those who voted for Ranka be automatically be labeled as Sheryl shippers?
=__=
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Old 2009-02-06, 11:48   Link #1247
zalem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soulassassin547 View Post
As an exception to my tastes, I came here because I'm kinda disappointed with this contest below, which seems to justify character bashing:
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=77363

Looks like the shippers are short of asking the producers to bring her to martyrdom.
There are lots of people who never come into the Macross forum voting in that thread, so don't assume automatically that it's all shippers or Sheryl fans. Dig up the old nominees voting thread and I'm sure you'll see it's the same. Personally I had to choose Kazuki. Ranka is certainly not the type of character I like, but she is not so bad that I'd call her the worst. Especially since Kazuki is on that list. If more people watched the horrible Dragonaut they would understand and vote for him too!
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Old 2009-02-06, 12:16   Link #1248
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Thank God I didn't see Dragonaut, then. Nor did I vote for Ranka, in that thread - it's not even so much as I dislike her character, in as much as I dislike her development (or lack thereof).
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Old 2009-02-06, 17:42   Link #1249
Westlo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raile View Post
And really must those who voted for Ranka be automatically be labeled as Sheryl shippers?
=__=
Well it seems that if you vote for Ranka you're either a Sheryl shipper or anti-moe. Of course the majority of people voting for Ranka either haven't even posted in the Macross forum and/or voted for Horo who won the Korean Best Moe last year... whatever helps Ranka fans sleep at night I guess Just ignore that Ranka has a lot of hate threads on 2ch as well, lol @ Brera fans going off at Ranka after episode 21.

Also anyone find it funny that you don't see Suzaku fans going "Omg everyone voting for Suzaku is just riding Lelouche's nuts!" As for the other two options in Dragonaut and Kanonkon... well they were considered to be complete crap and had bad word of mouth right away and those 2 shows were nowhere near as watched as much as Mac F and Geass was. Hard to vote for someone when you haven't seen the show or enough of it to give a fair judgment.
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Old 2009-02-06, 19:57   Link #1250
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But you gotta realize that shippers are irrational when picking favorites. Much different from the average viewer who picks who they like through deductive reasoning.
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Old 2009-02-06, 23:47   Link #1251
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Originally Posted by erfine View Post
But you gotta realize that shippers are irrational when picking favorites. Much different from the average viewer who picks who they like through deductive reasoning.
That they are.
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Old 2009-02-07, 07:46   Link #1252
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Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
That they are.
It can work both ways. I definitely ship Sheryl and Alto, but I do it by logical deduction.
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Old 2009-02-10, 08:55   Link #1253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
It is a pretty rare opinion, especially on these boards. I'm one of the few that actually find her interesting because although she is immature and pretty naive, she always has instances where she becomes determined, while not strong, she has her positive qualities which attracted me to her character in the first place. Just like Alto himself said about her, in the beginning Alto didn't know what to think of Ranka because she used to say things such as, "I know I can't" or somewhere along those lines but at the same time she was determined to accomplish what she wanted to do, hence her success in singing.
She's a little girl with great qualities but very little confidence...spoiled by her "brother"(for obvious reasons) she has no idea what to do, no confidence and her will is somewhat weak.That's not her fault, just she's emotionaly very immature.Because her painfull memories are sealed she has no idea of hardships at the begining...
She's a great material for character development but because of some reason she's mostly left as she were. So far the only things she has learned in the whole series: sense of responsibility(perhaps way smaler than Alto's or Sheryl's), will to fight, understanding the Vajra(!She has a long way to understand the people, even Alto), little strenght for living alone(She's less clingy as she was at the start)

She should have learnt many more things but the writers left Ranka alone...It seemed like that Alto is the main Hero and SHeryl is the Main heroine, while Ranka is just secondary(the Sheryl-centered ED from the second half of the series ensured that in me). If that were a classical harem anime then Sheryl was the main heroine, the one with the Main hero fallen in love and Ranka one of the other girls who tries to break that...
Somehow Ranka is forced from the last third of the show...

I hope she gets much more character development in the movie. Perhaps even with that i can't root for any other than a Sheryl X Alto ending...:P
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Old 2009-02-10, 14:46   Link #1254
DeX-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willyvereb View Post
She's a little girl with great qualities but very little confidence...spoiled by her "brother"(for obvious reasons) she has no idea what to do, no confidence and her will is somewhat weak.That's not her fault, just she's emotionaly very immature.Because her painfull memories are sealed she has no idea of hardships at the begining...
She's a great material for character development but because of some reason she's mostly left as she were. So far the only things she has learned in the whole series: sense of responsibility(perhaps way smaler than Alto's or Sheryl's), will to fight, understanding the Vajra(!She has a long way to understand the people, even Alto), little strenght for living alone(She's less clingy as she was at the start)

She should have learnt many more things but the writers left Ranka alone...It seemed like that Alto is the main Hero and SHeryl is the Main heroine, while Ranka is just secondary(the Sheryl-centered ED from the second half of the series ensured that in me). If that were a classical harem anime then Sheryl was the main heroine, the one with the Main hero fallen in love and Ranka one of the other girls who tries to break that...
Somehow Ranka is forced from the last third of the show...

I hope she gets much more character development in the movie. Perhaps even with that i can't root for any other than a Sheryl X Alto ending...:P
I'm with you up until you say that Sheryl took over the "main heroine" role because honestly I still believe that Ranka is the main heroine but as for the LT, that's still up in the air. The plot itself had more to do with Ranka's past than anything else so that's a big hint as to who the main heroine is, at least from my perspective. I agree that Ranka could have been portrayed much better then how they did but her character isn't as bad as some make it out to be.

If you take a look at how the LT was worked in the beginning, I actually felt as if Sheryl was the one that was trying to break apart any type of relationship with Ranka. Ranka actually wanted Alto to work out his feelings himself, I recall the conversation that she had with Nanase and Ranka says it's too early, but you get the point. Still as for who Alto loves, well that is a never ending debate lol
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Old 2009-02-10, 14:52   Link #1255
Tak
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Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
I'm with you up until you say that Sheryl took over the "main heroine" role because honestly I still believe that Ranka is the main heroine but as for the LT, that's still up in the air.
Believe that she is the main heroine on what basis?

I am sorry, but for a heroine, she has done shit to deserve that title. You can believe what you like, but we will never agree with your assessment. Yeah, she was intended for the role until she failed to uphold the title.

If you want a fan opinion of Ranka from Japan, I suggest picking up some doujins. Ranka is probably the most humiliated 'heroine' I've ever seen on doujinshi publications these days. Even artists who normally do not dabble in such extremes have indulged themselves in this affair. How extreme is extreme? I will leave that up to your imagination.

- Tak
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Last edited by Tak; 2009-02-10 at 15:03.
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Old 2009-02-10, 15:27   Link #1256
cerrian
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Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Believe that she is the main heroine on what basis?

I am sorry, but for a heroine, she has done shit to deserve that title. You can believe what you like, but we will never agree with your assessment. Yeah, she was intended for the role until she failed to uphold the title.

If you want a fan opinion of Ranka from Japan, I suggest picking up some doujins. Ranka is probably the most humiliated 'heroine' I've ever seen on doujinshi publications these days. Even artists who normally do not dabble in such extremes have indulged themselves in this affair. How extreme is extreme? I will leave that up to your imagination.

- Tak

Okay...that got my attention. Time to go find some doujins. It couldn't be that bad for Ranka could it?
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Old 2009-02-10, 15:30   Link #1257
DeX-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Believe that she is the main heroine on what basis?

I am sorry, but for a heroine, she has done shit to deserve that title. You can believe what you like, but we will never agree with your assessment. Yeah, she was intended for the role until she failed to uphold the title.

If you want a fan opinion of Ranka from Japan, I suggest picking up some doujins. Ranka is probably the most humiliated 'heroine' I've ever seen on doujinshi publications these days. Even artists who normally do not dabble in such extremes have indulged themselves in this affair. How extreme is extreme? I will leave that up to your imagination.

- Tak
And yet I'm not asking you to agree with me, I'm simply expressing how I feel about a comment. "Fan" opinions are worthless to me because they don't affect my opinion of her character and they never will, just like my opinions won't affect yours. Honestly I don't even see the point on mentioning what other fans think of her character when all that matters is your own.
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Old 2009-02-10, 15:49   Link #1258
Tak
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Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
And yet I'm not asking you to agree with me, I'm simply expressing how I feel about a comment.
And right here, I am also not asking you to agree with me, I am simply "expressing how I feel about a comment"

But while we are at it, lets spice things up.

- Tak
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Old 2009-02-10, 16:01   Link #1259
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I hear a "Letīs get friendly!" out of your comment, Tak.

But, to be more serious, I find Taks comment very interesting.

Yeah, Ranka was supposed to be the big heroine of the series. Itīs clear, with the focus on Aimo, the Vajra coming for her, everybody being her friend ( contrary to Sheryl, who had to fight to get the respect of a number of the cast. ).

But, as Tak said, Ranka faltered in her role. When push came to shove, when she had to put aside her hurt feelings for the sake of the people she had agreed to protect, Ranka quailed. And failed. As they say, Ranka cried, thousands died. And then she fled from Frontier, unable to confront the people she had let down. And thatīs the nice assessment of how she felt about them.

In this wonderful post by Crusader, he in the middle of the essay observes the same phenomenon as Tak did. I find myself in agreement with both of them, because if one does observe Rankas character arc from an objective point, it otherwise doesnīt make much sense at all.

I mean, what exactly are we to learn from Rankas experiences? That you can be as useless and callouos for other peoples life as you like, as long as you are moe enough? I also think that this is not the lesson we are to take from her character. Instead of this, a deconstruction of the principle of the moe character seems much more likely to me.
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Last edited by magnuskn; 2009-02-10 at 16:10. Reason: Had more to say.... ^^
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Old 2009-02-10, 16:26   Link #1260
Tak
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And here I would like to clear something up, because I've actually been asked in private msgs.

Crusader and Tak are two different individuals. He is a cool person and might even be my long lost relative, although he must share my loathing for Bavarians, and must know a dog named Prince William.

That is all.

- Tak
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