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Old 2009-02-10, 20:39   Link #1281
Tak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
Oh but Brera was already in the VF when Ranka confessed so it wasn't at knife point
She confessed on Banana's Valkyrie, but you are right. It was not at knife point. It was at gun point.

Although I don't know where you get the "she doesn't know Banana was gonna show up".

- Tak
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Old 2009-02-10, 20:46   Link #1282
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She would have been honest enough to tell Alto that Brera is stalking again. There is no proof that she knew it or not. We can only guess. Also I do think that she had wanted to arrange an appointment to talk with Alto alone.
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Old 2009-02-10, 20:49   Link #1283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
She confessed on Banana's Valkyrie, but you are right. It was not at knife point. It was at gun point.

Although I don't know where you get the "she doesn't know Banana was gonna show up".

- Tak
I could have sworn the "Banana's" VF was facing the other way If you say that she knew he was going to show up, I want to know how? because I remember quite specifically that Ranka saw Ai-kun mold and then hours later she calls Alto who comes sprinting to Griffith and we all know what happens next. When is it that she spoke to Brera and told him to show up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Hentai View Post
She would have been honest enough to tell Alto that Brera is stalking again. There is no proof that she knew it or not. We can only guess. Also I do think that she had wanted to arrange an appointment to talk with Alto alone.
See what I find interesting is that if Ranka had known that he would show up, then why did Brera ask her what she "desired," when Ranka could have simply told him the hours between Ai-kun molding and the 3 a.m. call to Alto. Ranka's decision to leave was thought-out but leaving with Brera was a spur of the moment type of thing.
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Old 2009-02-10, 20:53   Link #1284
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Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
I could have sworn the "Banana's" VF was facing the other way If you say that she knew he was going to show up, I want to know how? because I remember quite specifically that Ranka saw Ai-kun mold and then hours later she calls Alto who comes sprinting to Griffith and we all know what happens next. When is it that she spoke to Brera and told him to show up?
You mean aside from the fact that the entire trip was orchestrated by the two? Aside from the fact that Ranka's line after she confessed was that she really wanted to go with Alto? Aside from the fact that she was not the least bit surprised to see Banana? Aside from the fact that she was ready to climb up into the VF-27?

Come on. How the hell is she going to be on a trip to Vajra land without Banana's help? Give me a friggin break. Analyzing her character is one thing, going on denial is quite another. I am amused that every once in a while, a new, totally illogical excuse would suddenly spawn out of nowhere.

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Old 2009-02-10, 20:57   Link #1285
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One point to add about Brera. He would still be on stalker mode if Alto would not have risked friendly fire to kill Ai kun. That is why he intervened.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
You mean aside from the fact that the entire trip was orchestrated by the two? Aside from the fact that Ranka's line after she confessed was that she really wanted to go with Alto? Aside from the fact that she was not the least bit surprised to see Banana? Aside from the fact that she was ready to climb up into the VF-27?

Come on. How the hell is she going to be on a trip to Vajra land without Banana's help? Give me a friggin break. Analyzing her character is one thing, going on denial is quite another. I am amused that every once in a while, a new, totally illogical excuse would suddenly spawn out of nowhere.

- Tak
Yes, it is correct that she has already set in mind to leave to the Vajra but who would have fly was still to be decide. Her wish was with Alto because she somehow wanted to give it a try for her relationship to him. Hope dies with the last breath as you would say. And the last breath was made when he was not able to see through his hate for the vajra. Understandable but does not help her. That she was willing to be taken with the purple birld to the vajra homeplanet was after she has been asked what she desires.
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Old 2009-02-10, 21:01   Link #1286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
You mean aside from the fact that the entire trip was orchestrated by the two? Aside from the fact that Ranka's line after she confessed was that she really wanted to go with Alto? Aside from the fact that she was not the least bit surprised to see Banana? Aside from the fact that she was ready to climb up into the VF-27?

Come on. How the hell is she going to be on a trip to Vajra land without Banana's help? Give me a friggin break. Analyzing her character is one thing, going on denial is quite another. I am amused that every once in a while, a new, totally illogical excuse would suddenly spawn out of nowhere.

- Tak
lol, you get fired up quite easily. My reasoning is quite logical and it is just as good as yours, when it comes down to it both of our statements could be possible, we're merely discussing the situation. Both our views are just speculation though and I'm not giving Ranka an "excuse" as you like to put it, I'm merely justifying her situations because what I say is as much possible as yours. You can keep saying I'm in denial but there are people that tend to at least acknowledge my views.
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Old 2009-02-10, 21:05   Link #1287
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Actually, at this point, I am still mild. You don't want to see me get fired up.

The difference between your arguments and mine is that I back up mine with logic. You say she doesn't know that he was there. Ok, then tell me how Ranka will be able to go without Banana's aid? Tell me why Ranka was ready to step into Banana's VF-27? She exercised absolutely no suspicion, doubt or even fright when Banana's VF-27 showed up, its a perfect indication that she was ready and that the entire event was orchestrated beforehand.

- Tak
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Old 2009-02-10, 21:10   Link #1288
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Sorry to dissapoint you but I said "we can only guess" which really means "we can only guess".

And what else should she do to get to her trip if not accepting Breras offer? Try to ask leon to fly straight to the Vajra planet? Oh wait. Then she will be tooled around again which is fine for everybody except what she really desires.
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Old 2009-02-10, 21:11   Link #1289
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Originally Posted by Father Hentai View Post
If you want to have a quote which is more important than reason one moreover reason two.
Making grammatically nonsensical statements like this makes it really difficult to debate you, y'know. I canīt make heads or tails about what you are trying to say here.

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Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
The deaths were not her fault, remember that the Vajra came out from Frontier itself and began to kill civilians, so before her song angered the Vajra there were already people dying and although her song angered the Vajra, it's not something she could control.
Wrong, the Vajra began swarming when she lost it over Alto hugging Sheryl. Which she couldnīt know would happen, granted, but that still doesnīt excuse her not getting a grip on herself later on.

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Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
To be honest, I don't see how you can blame Ranka for not being able to overcome her emotions. After Sheryl slapped her, Ranka tried to get a hold of herself and did try to tame the Vajra, but how can you blame her for the song having the opposite affect? Seriously, you know that emotions wouldn't be emotions if we could control them. Emotions are based off reactions to situations, so Ranka was unable to tame the Vajra because of the emotions she felt at that moment. For example, when you get angry what do you do? You either go blow off some steam or you wait to calm down, well Ranka had no time to calm herself down and was swayed by the present situation. It's not like she intended to anger the Vajra.
I canīt blame her for her intent, true.

But not being able to compose herself? I am damned sure I can blame her for that. One should be able to master your emotions, especially in such a situation. Unless you are a panic-prone useless moe-blob that is. Oh, wait...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
Ranka's running away is the result of fear because she had no idea what her singing would do this time around, she sings and then another hoard of Vajra come attacking Frontier.
Hey, funnily she later was able to control her singing, although she still was heart-broken about Alto. So she knew that her singing would still be able to help out against the Vajra. Too bad it cost Michael his life to get the point across and for her to snap out of her funk.

As for Breras appearance at the park, Tak said it best already. You two are making fools out of yourselves if you really believe that Brera "just showed up" with his giant VF-27. Funny how we didnīt see him flying to the park while Alto and Ranka were having their discussion. Or do you think the VF-27 also has a never-shown-in-the-show stealth mode?
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Old 2009-02-10, 21:12   Link #1290
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Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Actually, at this point, I am still mild. You don't want to see me get fired up.

The difference between your arguments and mine is that I back up mine with logic. You say she doesn't know that he was there. Ok, then tell me how Ranka will be able to go without Banana's aid? Tell me why Ranka was ready to step into Banana's VF-27? She exercised absolutely no suspicion, doubt or even fright when Banana's VF-27 showed up, its a perfect indication that she was ready and that the entire event was orchestrated beforehand.

- Tak
Ok I agree that you do back your statements up with logic, but proof always beats logic, no? I understand what you're trying to say here but the fact is that when Brera came running and attacked Alto, what was Ranka's response? Ranka responded by saying "Brera-san?" Now if Ranka had known before-hand that he was coming, then why would she be confused at Brera being there? This was not an orchestrated plan with Ranka, it was just an orchestrated plan on Brera's behalf. This is what I'm trying to prove here. Just re-watch the scene.
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Old 2009-02-10, 21:18   Link #1291
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Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
Making grammatically nonsensical statements like this makes it really difficult to debate you, y'know. I canīt make heads or tails about what you are trying to say here.
Oh, no problem. We can talk german, right? About my grammar problem... look at the watch. It's 3:15 a.m. CET

Ok, no kidding now. I wrote two reasons why she has left but I put more weight on the first reason as this is the key to unravel her past and to uncover the power of her songs.

Is this more understandable now?
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Old 2009-02-10, 21:19   Link #1292
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Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
Ok I agree that you do back your statements up with logic, but proof always beats logic, no? I understand what you're trying to say here but the fact is that when Brera came running and attacked Alto, what was Ranka's response? Ranka responded by saying "Brera-san?" Now if Ranka had known before-hand that he was coming, then why would she be confused at Brera being there? This was not an orchestrated plan with Ranka, it was just an orchestrated plan on Brera's behalf. This is what I'm trying to prove here. Just re-watch the scene.
That can actually be taken as a statement of surprise that Brera would intervene in her and Altos conversation. Her statement came with enough delay to indicate, at least to me, that it wasnīt out of surprise that he was there at all. Otherwise I *think* she would have at least let out some yelp of surprise when Brera came out of nowhere to toss Alto around.

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Is this more understandable now?
Yep. ^^
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Old 2009-02-10, 21:23   Link #1293
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The "Brera-san?" is the surprise yelp you are asking for. It is quite short but this is it. We can now put more analizing the size of her eyes to determine "how suprised" she was but this would go too far for some of you... in terms of her moe factor now :P
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Old 2009-02-10, 21:27   Link #1294
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Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
I canīt blame her for her intent, true.

But not being able to compose herself? I am damned sure I can blame her for that. One should be able to master your emotions, especially in such a situation. Unless you are a panic-prone useless moe-blob that is. Oh, wait...
Although you don't like when people bring age into account, I just want to know what the difference is between a 16 year old and a 30 year old? Yes, their ability to control their emotions, someone older will usually be able to control themselves much more easily than a 16 year old. Now of course personality sometimes comes into play since people have different traits and such, which could change situations but that's on a different topic.

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Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
Hey, funnily she later was able to control her singing, although she still was heart-broken about Alto. So she knew that her singing would still be able to help out against the Vajra. Too bad it cost Michael his life to get the point across and for her to snap out of her funk.
True, she was able to control it better the second time around but what are the percentages of getting something right the first time around? Surely someone doesn't become an expert at something the first time, it usually takes a while before you can get the hang of things. It is too bad about Michel but there are things that you can't avoid at times, we all wish we could go back in time and undo something that we regret, but there is no such thing.
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Old 2009-02-10, 21:28   Link #1295
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Originally Posted by Father Hentai View Post
The "Brera-san?" is the surprise yelp you are asking for. It is quite short but this is it. We can now put more analizing the size of her eyes to determine "how suprised" she was but this would go too far for some of you... in terms of her moe factor now :P
Watch the scene again. Her exclamation comes *after* he already kicked Altos ass. So either she has a *very* slow reaction time, or she didnīt really was surprised that he was there ( in a general sense ), but more surprised that he had chosen to interrupt her and Altos conversation.

Anyway, thatīs my opinion. Iīm going to sleep ( as you said, it is 03:30 a.m. here ).
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Old 2009-02-10, 21:30   Link #1296
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She always addressed Banana as Banana-san. I am fairly certain that she also instructed Banana that she wanted a moment with Alto alone. What she did not expect, was that Banana would intervene and put Alto at gunpoint. Never mind the very fact that she only expressed her surprise after he had kicked Alto's ass, beat him to the ground, hold him at knife point, ready to end his life should Ranka wish it...

Sure, whatever you say.

To even suggest that she does not know Banana was going to be there is a fallacy. She cannot go anywhere without transportation, and of all people left in the galaxy, Banana was her only option left.

She was ready to go. Look at how naturally she stepped on Banana's VF-27. If she did not know he was there at all, then would it also be equally natural for her to question his sudden appearance? Not only did she not do so, but she went with him so willingly and easily. You are telling me that she did not expect him to be there at all? Come on buddies.

- Tak
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Old 2009-02-10, 21:37   Link #1297
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Originally Posted by Tak View Post
She always addressed Banana as Banana-san. I am fairly certain that she also instructed Banana that she wanted a moment with Alto alone. What she did not expect, was that Banana would intervene and put Alto at gunpoint. Never mind the very fact that she only expressed her surprise after he had kicked Alto's ass, beat him to the ground, hold him at knife point, ready to end his life should Ranka wish it...

Sure, whatever you say.

To even suggest that she does not know Banana was going to be there is a fallacy. She cannot go anywhere without transportation, and of all people left in the galaxy, Banana was her only option left.

She was ready to go. Look at how naturally she stepped on Banana's VF-27. If she did not know he was there at all, then would it also be equally natural for her to question his sudden appearance? Not only did she not do so, but she went with him so willingly and easily. You are telling me that she did not expect him to be there at all? Come on buddies.

- Tak
Oh boy, I honestly don't have anything else to say about that scene...I mean what more can I say to prove that Ranka did not orchestrate any plan with Brera? Even when Brera asks "Ranka, speak your desire" she responds with a "huh?" What really just makes this pointless is that you guys can't even acknowledge this, like I have to be completely wrong to make people happy here. I'll be lurking around but this has really gotten out of hand and I'm tired it, I don't see how else I can prove this. Why go out of your way for something so petty? Just watch the scene as a whole, from where Brera comes dashing in to Ranka's departure. It's not that hard to comprehend.
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Old 2009-02-10, 21:43   Link #1298
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We can guess that she knows that Brera will fly her if Alto wouldn' t do it. The complete situation escalated when Ranka threw herself into the line of fire. A situation where a bodyguard will intervene.

Still there is no proof that she has planned this scenario from the beginning.
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Old 2009-02-10, 21:45   Link #1299
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Oh boy, I honestly don't have anything else to say about that scene...I mean what more can I say to prove that Ranka did not orchestrate any plan with Brera? Even when Brera asks "Ranka, speak your desire" she responds with a "huh?" What really just makes this pointless is that you guys can't even acknowledge this, like I have to be completely wrong to make people happy here. I'll be lurking around but this has really gotten out of hand and I'm tired it, I don't see how else I can prove this. Why go out of your way for something so petty? Just watch the scene as a whole, from where Brera comes dashing in to Ranka's departure. It's not that hard to comprehend.
And which part of the plan are you referring to? Are you saying that Ranka was going to Vajra land without assistance? Like that she was just going to go there magically? Look buddy, you have yet to even back up your comments with evidence. You kept on stating that Ranka did not orchestrate the trip with Banana, but what you only did was to overlook the fact that Banana was Ranka's only option to go anywhere.

Moreover, the 'scene' you are referring to has all the evidence against you. Ranka only expressed surprise after Banana beaten the crap out of Alto, not before. So as Maggy stated, she either has an unbelievable slow reaction time, or she simply did not expect Banana to actually wanting to kill him. If she was surprised at anything, its at Banana's intervention and his question asking what Ranka desired. Everything else was in Ranka and Berera's playbook. If do not believe so, please back it up with evidence. Don't go "logic is not always correct" or "this is getting out of hand". Sorry bud, this is only getting out of hand for you due to very obvious reasons, as you cannot back up your arguments with proper evidence. If you wish to lurk, that is your call, but it won't improve your situation on this argument.

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We can guess that she knows that Brera will fly her if Alto wouldn' t do it.
She knew that Alto was not going to fly with her. She did not even bother asking if Alto could go with her, she only said "I wish you could have gone with me". Nothing more.

I don't know why you are pushing this. You have absolutely no evidence to support the indication that Banana was there without Ranka's prior knowledge. She knew he was there, she was ready to go with him, she was only surprised by the fact that Banana jumped to intervene Alto killing Ai-Kun. Nothing more, nothing less.

- Tak
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Old 2009-02-10, 22:02   Link #1300
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And which part of the plan are you referring to? Are you saying that Ranka was going to Vajra land without assistance? Like that she was just going to go there magically? Look buddy, you have yet to even back up your comments with evidence. You kept on stating that Ranka did not orchestrate the trip with Banana, but what you only did was to overlook the fact that Banana was Ranka's only option to go anywhere.

Moreover, the 'scene' you are referring to has all the evidence against you. Ranka only expressed surprise after Banana beaten the crap out of Alto, not before. So as Maggy stated, she either has an unbelievable slow reaction time, or she simply did not expect Banana to actually wanting to kill him. If she was surprised at anything, its at Banana's intervention and his question asking what Ranka desired. Everything else was in Ranka and Berera's playbook. If do not believe so, please back it up with evidence. Don't go "logic is not always correct" or "this is getting out of hand". Sorry bud, this is only getting out of hand for you due to very obvious reasons, as you cannot back up your arguments with proper evidence. If you wish to lurk, that is your call, but it won't improve your situation on this argument.

- Tak
lol, it's funny because it's actually you that haven't backed up anything with evidence, just "logic." I'm bringing the damn anime as my evidence and even then you can't admit that I'm right, you can't even admit that I could be partially correct. You're just twisting the scene in order to make it look like I'm the one in the wrong here, the scene shows you the proof as clear as day buddy. Ranka was there to ask Alto for the favor and she wanted Alto to help her but he refused and was going to take a shot at Ai-kun when Brera came dashing in and knocks him down, just look at Ranka right after that, she's confused and surprised because he showed up. Ranka was not expecting Brera to show up and when Brera wants to know her desire, she says what she wants to do. Ok so if their plan was so well "orchestrated" as you say, then how is it that Brera doesn't even know what Ranka wanted to do? C'mon, and I'm the one in denial? Right.
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