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Old 2009-02-10, 22:07   Link #1301
Father Hentai
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Originally Posted by Tak View Post
She knew that Alto was not going to fly with her. She did not even bother asking if Alto could go with her, she only said "I wish you could have gone with me". Nothing more.

I don't know why you are pushing this. You have absolutely no evidence to support the indication that Banana was there without Ranka's prior knowledge. She knew he was there, she was ready to go with him, she was only surprised by the fact that Banana jumped to intervene Alto killing Ai-Kun. Nothing more, nothing less.

- Tak
Even if she knew that Alto would say no, she still hoped to hear something else and that he would fly with her. I also think that she would have gone to Brera after the talk if Alto would have said no, because he is the only one who she knows who is not tooling her and who supports her with her decisions. (Now from her view).

As you mention I have no evidence of that it was not a planned scenario please show me from an official sourcebook that you are right. Again I can only say that she might have guessed it. If what you have said would be right then there is a missing scene where Ranka would asked Brera for a favor to put a hint for the viewers that this was intended.

Also one thing about Brera intervened because of Alto wanted to kill Ai kun. It was because Ranka threw herself into the line of fire and the risk that she gets hurt was far greater than the possibility that he will hit Ai kun. So his decision to come out of the shadows was right.
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Old 2009-02-10, 22:10   Link #1302
Liddo-kun
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Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
The deaths were not her fault, remember that the Vajra came out from Frontier itself and began to kill civilians, so before her song angered the Vajra there were already people dying and although her song angered the Vajra, it's not something she could control.
Are you referring to Ranka's first concert?

I don't think it's her song that angered them, rather it's her emotion of wishing to die that caused the vajra inside frontier to go on a rampage. Ranka is partly responsible for what happened there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
She confessed on Banana's Valkyrie, but you are right. It was not at knife point. It was at gun point.

Although I don't know where you get the "she doesn't know Banana was gonna show up".

- Tak
"Banana" is a funny nickname for Brera.

Did you give him that nickname because of his hair color?

*cookied

Last edited by Liddo-kun; 2009-02-10 at 22:25.
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Old 2009-02-10, 22:15   Link #1303
DeX-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liddo-kun View Post
Are you referring to Ranka's first concert?

I don't think it's her song that angered them, rather it's her emotion of wishing to die that caused the vajra inside frontier to go on a rampage. Ranka is partly responsible for what happened there.
Agreed, but it still isn't completely her fault. It's really hard to put it all on her like that when your emotions get the best of you.
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Old 2009-02-10, 22:15   Link #1304
Father Hentai
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Originally Posted by Liddo-kun View Post
Are you referring to Ranka's first concert?

I don't think it's her song that angered them, rather it's her emotion of wishing to die that caused the vajra inside frontier to go on a rampage. Ranka is partly responsible for what happened there.
It was because of the negative emotions she had in her singing in combination with the melody of Graces' version of Aimo. To say now that it is partly her fault that people died is... bitter, because she was asked to sing although she was not mentally capable due to the fact of a "torn heart" and she firstly denied to sing.
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Old 2009-02-10, 22:20   Link #1305
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Originally Posted by Father Hentai View Post
It was because of the negative emotions she had in her singing in combination with the melody of Graces' version of Aimo. To say now that it is partly her fault that people died is... bitter, because she was asked to sing although she was not mentally capable due to the fact of a "teared heart" and she firstly denied to sing.
A "torn heart" would be a better term to use xD
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Old 2009-02-10, 22:21   Link #1306
Father Hentai
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A "torn heart" would be a better term to use xD
It's 4 a.m. CET ...
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Old 2009-02-10, 22:22   Link #1307
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Originally Posted by Father Hentai View Post
It's 4 a.m. CET ...
It's so early over there , I guess you should start making some breakfast Ask Ranka, she'll make you some spaceship cookies xD
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Old 2009-02-10, 22:24   Link #1308
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Go to sleep lol, Father Hentai

I may join if I see more "interesting" argument, but I really answered a lot of those in my previous post (another reason why I can't replace my sig)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Hentai View Post
I just want to mention it that while we are discussing about Ranka nobody has compared her actions with those of the Macross Crew who went on Piracy. Both left Frontier fleet with their own reasons.
Actually I did lol, but it was so long ago....
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Old 2009-02-10, 22:26   Link #1309
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Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
lol, it's funny because it's actually you that haven't backed up anything with evidence, just "logic." I'm bringing the damn anime as my evidence and even then you can't admit that I'm right, you can't even admit that I could be partially correct. You're just twisting the scene in order to make it look like I'm the one in the wrong here, the scene shows you the proof as clear as day buddy. Ranka was there to ask Alto for the favor and she wanted Alto to help her but he refused and was going to take a shot at Ai-kun when Brera came dashing in and knocks him down, just look at Ranka right after that, she's confused and surprised because he showed up. Ranka was not expecting Brera to show up and when Brera wants to know her desire, she says what she wants to do. Ok so if their plan was so well "orchestrated" as you say, then how is it that Brera doesn't even know what Ranka wanted to do? C'mon, and I'm the one in denial? Right.
Gah, I got up again from bed for an entirely different reason ( wanted to check if there was any update on the THORA releases for ep 15-16 ), but I couldnīt pass up the chance to check into the thread.

Okay, from the top:

- Ranka, from what I can see, does not show surprise that Brera is there at all in the park, but rather is surprised at his violent behaviour towards Alto.

- Brera asks "What do you desire" after pulling the knife on Alto. That is when she goes "Eh?". Itīs pretty clear that he is asking her if he should kill Alto, and I supose that wasnīt what she expected.

- She then goes into her monologue about what she wants to do ( the stated goals of which are "Bring Ai-kun back to his people, because he just molted and is innocent"... even if she had the deeper goal of finding a way to communicate with the Vajra, that was a pretty damned stupid thing to say to Alto at this point ). This monologue is clearly directed at Alto. Because Brera already knows what her wishes are. Her subsequent tears come because Alto wasnīt the one to go along with her insane plan.

And, again, how exactly do you explain Breras plane being there? Do you honestly think he piloted it there without Ranka having noticed? Please.

Back to bed now, this is getting really too late.
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Old 2009-02-10, 22:32   Link #1310
Liddo-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Hentai View Post
It was because of the negative emotions she had in her singing in combination with the melody of Graces' version of Aimo. To say now that it is partly her fault that people died is... bitter, because she was asked to sing although she was not mentally capable due to the fact of a "torn heart" and she firstly denied to sing.
Her torn heart caused many people in Frontier to get torn apart as well, quite literally.

Which is something that could have been avoided if Ranka had been more calm.
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Old 2009-02-10, 22:37   Link #1311
Father Hentai
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ehm. magnus, you are aware that it was Alto who was ready to fire although Ranka throw herself into the line of fire. And the shot was also triggered.

That Brera was willing to kill Alto is sure IF the situation would force him to handle like that. It is the same behavior if the police say "Stop or I shot!" It is only a warning how far he will go.
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Old 2009-02-10, 22:38   Link #1312
justavisitor
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Originally Posted by Liddo-kun View Post
Her torn heart caused many people in Frontier to get torn apart as well - literally.

Which is something that could have been avoided if Ranka had been more calm.
hi, long time no see

About the discussion, I am actually curious to know whether Ranka, or anyone besides Grace knows that neg emotion can cause this great effect to Vajra

the point I try to make is Ranka already sang and she sang the best she could

She pressed down her sadness and sang...and no one at there knows what went wrong...Luca thought it was not loud enough

So what else could she do??
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Old 2009-02-10, 22:44   Link #1313
Father Hentai
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Originally Posted by Liddo-kun View Post
Her torn heart caused many people in Frontier to get torn apart as well, quite literally.

Which is something that could have been avoided if Ranka had been more calm.
Ok... We are talking about a sixteen to seventeen year old girl who has no experience with love, is still a virgin (in non MF hentai dojinshis) and just saw that her love hugs another girl. And even more a friend of both.

Do you really think that she could stay calm? Sheryl's slap brought her back to sense but this does not mean that her feelings will automatically get calm.
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Old 2009-02-10, 22:50   Link #1314
DeX-kun
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Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
Gah, I got up again from bed for an entirely different reason ( wanted to check if there was any update on the THORA releases for ep 15-16 ), but I couldnīt pass up the chance to check into the thread.

Okay, from the top:

- Ranka, from what I can see, does not show surprise that Brera is there at all in the park, but rather is surprised at his violent behaviour towards Alto.

- Brera asks "What do you desire" after pulling the knife on Alto. That is when she goes "Eh?". Itīs pretty clear that he is asking her if he should kill Alto, and I supose that wasnīt what she expected.

- She then goes into her monologue about what she wants to do ( the stated goals of which are "Bring Ai-kun back to his people, because he just molted and is innocent"... even if she had the deeper goal of finding a way to communicate with the Vajra, that was a pretty damned stupid thing to say to Alto at this point ). This monologue is clearly directed at Alto. Because Brera already knows what her wishes are. Her subsequent tears come because Alto wasnīt the one to go along with her insane plan.

And, again, how exactly do you explain Breras plane being there? Do you honestly think he piloted it there without Ranka having noticed? Please.

Back to bed now, this is getting really too late.
Oh magnus, I'm already tired of explaining this over and over again lol. Ok, I admit the plane is an interesting aspect and it's weird that it was there but I don't see the point in Kawamori/Ohnogi writing a scene where Brera is asking Ranka what she wants if it was planned already, it would just be redundant. I can't see them planning this and Ranka acting all flustered like that, it clearly shows that she wasn't expecting Brera and there is more evidence pointing towards that then their "orchestrated" plan as you see it. If they were going to show a well orchestrated plan, then they would have just shown us a scene where Brera and Ranka meet before the conversation with Alto like father_hentai said. That or Brera would have just said "Ok Ranka, let's go." It just doesn't make sense the way the scene unfolded.
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Old 2009-02-10, 22:54   Link #1315
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There are 3 key scenes that point to the fact that Ranka went to Griffith Park knowing that she would say goodbye to Alto and that she was ready to leave Frontier that very day. Her final pleas to Alto are nothing but a last ditch effort which she knows deep down in her heart are fruitless.

Earlier in the episode while Ranka is playing bait, she comes to the conclusion that her songs/feelings never reached Alto. This is the point where she throws in the towel for the triangle, not the scene at Giffith Park. We know she premeditated her departure for that very day because she left behind letters to Ozma and Nanase. So her departure from Frontier was imminant, with or without Alto. Finally, we're shown that Beara had the VF-27 ready to travel because the scene at Griffith Park shows the VF-27 equipped with a fold booster. It's not like people slap on fold boosters on a whim or carry it around with them 24/7. Those things are only equipped when they know long distance traveling is invovled.

Now you can argue that Ranka and Beara didn't plan things together, and we aren't shown any direct evidence that they did, but come on...what reasonable person would think the goodbye letters and the fold booster were not related events. To say that they weren't implies that Ranka is completely ignorant of Alto and his feelings with the unreasonable expectation that Alto would abandon everything he had on Frontier for Ranka. In addition it makes her look like she naively pins all her hopes on Alto without having a backup plan if he refused her request. If you argue that Beara was her backup plan then you're just confirming that Beara and Ranka premeditated their departure. It also suggests that Beara is in some way psychic and can read Ranka's desires. I want to give Ranka the benefit of the doubt that she's not that stupid and that Beara didn't have to resort to a deus ex machina trick. So the best conclusion is to assume that at some point in time Ranka and Beara did collude with each other and commit on departing Frontier.
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Old 2009-02-10, 23:01   Link #1316
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To be fair, Ranka had no control over Brera. It's not like she said "lol go draw a knife on Alto." Brera has always done his own thing. I do agree that I don't think he was merely stalking her that moment. I get the feeling his being there was planned. She already knew what she wanted to do and Brera was clearly a part of it. While she did shirk certain responsibilities I can at least give her credit for finally going her own way and not caving in cause "Alto-kun doesn't agree." Her plan certainly wasn't well thought out at all, but she did have the right intentions.
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Old 2009-02-10, 23:04   Link #1317
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ADD: While I'm glad Ranka finally did do something useful she didn't do so with tact.
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Old 2009-02-10, 23:11   Link #1318
zalem
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Ok... We are talking about a sixteen to seventeen year old girl who has no experience with love, is still a virgin (in non MF hentai dojinshis) and just saw that her love hugs another girl. And even more a friend of both.

Do you really think that she could stay calm? Sheryl's slap brought her back to sense but this does not mean that her feelings will automatically get calm.
While Ranka's behavior that episode was infuriating and made me want to break my monitor, I do agree with you here. Ranka wasn't going to just calm down instantly. She was too upset and would have needed more time. It's easy to say to someone "calm down," but when you're that anxious/upset about something it's not an easy thing to do. Of course, I think her reasons for being so upset were absolutely ridiculous, but that's just Ranka being Ranka I suppose. She was still really immature in her way of thinking at that time. That's something I really hope they fix in the movie.
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Old 2009-02-10, 23:27   Link #1319
cerrian
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Hey, she took care of Ai-kun while Ranka went to Gallia IV :P

Btw. Nanase > Sheryl > Ranka in terms of "boob" factor

Shouldn't it be:

Klan > Grace > Nanase > Sheryl > Ranka

anyone know where Cathy falls in there?
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Old 2009-02-10, 23:31   Link #1320
Father Hentai
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I just compared the three young ladies.

But yes, Klan (Macronized) > rest. Cathy would be between Nanase and Sheryl. And don't ask me where the Bridge Bunnies belong to in the row....
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