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Old 2009-02-03, 21:10   Link #841
Light_Yamagi_Kira
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Actually these laws are still in tact in these particular places, it is that they are not punished. Rather it be a law, it is usually not the law itself that does not imply to the area, it is the morality and religion. Nevertheless there is a difference in "Morality" and the "law" hence the idea of "legal positivism". Nevertheless, Solachinx, you're irrelevant and your argument is rejected noted and rejected.
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Old 2009-02-04, 00:26   Link #842
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Actually these laws are still in tact in these particular places, it is that they are not punished. Rather it be a law, it is usually not the law itself that does not imply to the area, it is the morality and religion. Nevertheless there is a difference in "Morality" and the "law" hence the idea of "legal positivism". Nevertheless, Solachinx, you're irrelevant and your argument is rejected noted and rejected.
I don't think that Light cared about anything other than morality as he defined it. He certainly didn't give a damn about the law since the law has rather strict rules about killing... Solachinx is actually quite correct in pointing out a policy of basing using the Death Note on the pure basis of the law.

On a slightly different note, only legalism equates morality with legality. Legalism is rejected by just about all moral philosophies of note, so I don't think that it's really necessary to bring that up.
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Old 2009-02-04, 06:48   Link #843
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My personal opinion is that Light was by no means the "ultimate evil" as certain reviewers described him, according to wiki atleast. The stuff about killing criminals was hardly very evil, many of them, especially those guilty of murder, rape etc deserved death anyways. The sole things that for me diminished Light's character was how he killed those FBI agents without any remorse, how he after a while killed petty criminals, wasn't there a purse thief or something at some point?, and more importantly the way he relished his killing of Naomi (Penber's fiancee) and his uncaring treatment of Misa although she wasn't very deserving either. I didn't much like the "good" characters, L, N and Mello weren't favourites at all, rather they were pretty hypocritical. I was rooting for L in the end despite the cons, and I was very much disappointed in the ending.
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Old 2009-02-04, 14:09   Link #844
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I would strongly suggest the notion that death note has no morality, I believe in China people once pulled a prank using a copy of a death note on a student, who wrote names of students and teachers, and got arrested the following day on grounds of attempted murder...real story.
I'd say that even if one is given the power to judge, they should leave judging to the rest of the world, both Light and the detectives broke many laws to achieve their goals,so in the end it was all done "for the greater good", which is, in my opinion, the most hypocritic thing a person can say.
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Old 2009-02-05, 20:20   Link #845
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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
I don't think that Light cared about anything other than morality as he defined it. He certainly didn't give a damn about the law since the law has rather strict rules about killing... Solachinx is actually quite correct in pointing out a policy of basing using the Death Note on the pure basis of the law.

On a slightly different note, only legalism equates morality with legality. Legalism is rejected by just about all moral philosophies of note, so I don't think that it's really necessary to bring that up.
Actually, Light did care; this is the reason why Light took the burden to become "justice" he felt the legal system, was not holding it's own - criminals were not being punished. Legalism (The Law) and Morality are two very different things as Harvard Prof. Hart claims.
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Old 2009-02-05, 23:43   Link #846
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The stuff about killing criminals was hardly very evil, many of them, especially those guilty of murder, rape etc deserved death anyways.
Out of curiosity, for what severity of crime do you think that criminals deserve death? And does it matter what the law is on the matter?

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I'd say that even if one is given the power to judge, they should leave judging to the rest of the world, both Light and the detectives broke many laws to achieve their goals,so in the end it was all done "for the greater good", which is, in my opinion, the most hypocritic thing a person can say.
Isn't this a bit of a case of false equivalency? There are very different degrees to breaking laws. Likewise there can be extremely good reasons for doing so.

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Actually, Light did care; this is the reason why Light took the burden to become "justice" he felt the legal system, was not holding it's own - criminals were not being punished.
What Light cared about was "justice" as a concept; and only when it applied to other people. This is completely different from abiding laws as they are written; which is my point in claiming that he didn't actually give a damn about the law. And to be honest, a moral system that only applies to other people isn't much of a moral system at all.
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Old 2009-02-06, 13:34   Link #847
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I think Light was evil from the start and only cared about himself. He killed people (Good and bad) for his own personal gain. L was trying to make the world a better place by bringing criminals justice. IMO, L was a hero.
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Old 2009-02-06, 20:33   Link #848
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A justice where one has the right over others' life and death never exist in the first place.
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Old 2009-02-06, 20:56   Link #849
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I pose this question, What is justice? What is just and what is simply fair? how can someone consider someone else "good" or "bad" when we are all biased and have our own prejudices? Morality is self-defined, and while society has its general consent of morality, one's morals ultimately vary.

While we can "justify" the morality of Light's actions, to justify someone else's actions through morals would be wrong simply because when we reason, we think though our own mindset, morals, biases, beliefs. However, Light's actions are based off his morals, biases and beliefs, things that we, for the most part, don't understand.

Some of this debate has been because of different morals, biases and beliefs. As a result, there probably won't be an actual answer the proposed question. However, it is an interesting topic nonetheless.

Maybe Light was simply following more primitive instincts such as becoming the alpha-male, fighting for personal gain in a "kill or be killed" world.
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Old 2009-02-07, 00:14   Link #850
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^ Do we hav to make everthing so complicated? LOL.Well, we rili dont nid alot of analysis on the morality of the anime. Its actually quite simple. Killing=bad.Kira=kills.Kira=bad. There!
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Old 2009-02-07, 00:35   Link #851
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Originally Posted by EternalNeptune View Post
^ Do we hav to make everthing so complicated? LOL.Well, we rili dont nid alot of analysis on the morality of the anime. Its actually quite simple. Killing=bad.Kira=kills.Kira=bad. There!
Uhm.... what?
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Old 2009-02-07, 02:22   Link #852
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Ok.... killing itself is an immoral act. Did kira hav to kill those people for self-defense? No, he chose to
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Old 2009-02-07, 05:34   Link #853
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He killed them out of spite, that's pure evil.
On the other hand, L planted cameras, wanted to use death note and let many people die deliberately with the same excuse as Light, that they were just criminals...and mello kidnapped people and was in a mafia of sorts, so the only character in death note representing justice is Near...although I didn't really like him:P
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Old 2009-02-07, 18:24   Link #854
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragon4dudes
I pose this question, What is justice? What is just and what is simply fair? how can someone consider someone else "good" or "bad" when we are all biased and have our own prejudices? Morality is self-defined, and while society has its general consent of morality, one's morals ultimately vary.
In most way, justice is merely the manifestation of moral philosophy. And moral philosophy arises from fulfilling the societal need for regulating behavior. Boil it down, and morality is basically the ruleset that best reduces the amount of harm produced by people's actions. Admittedly, this is just a utilitarian view of how morality works, but all of the different systems try to accomplish the same basic thing.

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Originally Posted by dragon4dudes
While we can "justify" the morality of Light's actions, to justify someone else's actions through morals would be wrong simply because when we reason, we think though our own mindset, morals, biases, beliefs. However, Light's actions are based off his morals, biases and beliefs, things that we, for the most part, don't understand.
This is only true if you ascribe an inordinate amount of the judgement on a person's feelings and motives rather than on his actions. Personally, I think that motives are relatively incidental to judgement, so I don't see this as an issue at all. And for that matter, most moral and justice systems don't really care all that much either.

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Maybe Light was simply following more primitive instincts such as becoming the alpha-male, fighting for personal gain in a "kill or be killed" world.
I'm not sure what difference it would make whether this was true or not.

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Originally Posted by EternalNeptune
^ Do we hav to make everthing so complicated? LOL.Well, we rili dont nid alot of analysis on the morality of the anime. Its actually quite simple. Killing=bad.Kira=kills.Kira=bad. There!
You know, that's actually not that bad a summary of most of this thread so far .

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Originally Posted by HassenSekkai
On the other hand, L planted cameras, wanted to use death note and let many people die deliberately with the same excuse as Light, that they were just criminals...
While L's behavior wasn't completely on the up and up, he was also forced into a situation where there weren't a whole lot of options. If he had really been ruthless, he would have simply had Light killed off.
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Old 2009-02-09, 22:15   Link #855
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He killed them out of spite, that's pure evil.
On the other hand, L planted cameras, wanted to use death note and let many people die deliberately with the same excuse as Light, that they were just criminals...and mello kidnapped people and was in a mafia of sorts, so the only character in death note representing justice is Near...although I didn't really like him:P

Your statement is not very logical. Light did not kill anyone for spite. He had reason every time, he killed the FBI because they were in his way. They were in his way to his overall plan, would you not want to get rid of anyone who was in your way to whatever goal you might have? Near did not represent justice at all. He doesn't even know what justice is. All Near thought was that Kira was a serial killer and had to be stopped. You must realize Near is a young kid and intelligent or not he lacks many skills. Near got lucky and needs more than his hunches to be considered just.
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Old 2009-02-10, 09:37   Link #856
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Then why DID Light kill people? Out of discrimination because they were criminals? I doubt he knew any of the people they could have harmed, and even if he did, vengeance is not justice either.Light's goal was to kill, and killing-for whatever reason- isn't just.
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Old 2009-02-10, 18:36   Link #857
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Light killed because he could for one. And for a more logical answer how about because he wanted a better world. He said and had much reason to believe that the legal system was not justice at all and did not punish criminals. No, Light has not vengeance at all so that is cancelled out. Light's goal was not to "kill" it was to create a better world. "Killing-for-whatever reason isn't just," well what about Capital Punishment? That is just and lawful is it not?
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Old 2009-02-10, 23:42   Link #858
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Above all, replying to your previous statement, you can't kill people whom you don't know out of spite.
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Old 2009-02-11, 02:13   Link #859
EternalNeptune
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Your statement is not very logical. Light did not kill anyone for spite. He had reason every time, he killed the FBI because they were in his way. They were in his way to his overall plan, would you not want to get rid of anyone who was in your way to whatever goal you might have? Near did not represent justice at all. He doesn't even know what justice is. All Near thought was that Kira was a serial killer and had to be stopped. You must realize Near is a young kid and intelligent or not he lacks many skills. Near got lucky and needs more than his hunches to be considered just.
Killing pipol just bcuz they're in ur way is plain wrong in itself. But i do respect ur opinion bcuz we all grew up with different views. I hav to honestly say that it is annoying to hav someone in ur way but killing just isnt the answer.
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Old 2009-02-11, 06:12   Link #860
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"Killing-for-whatever reason isn't just," well what about Capital Punishment? That is just and lawful is it not?
I don't know of any country that still applies such penalties, and if there are any, it's not justice. Things would have been a lot better if Light had Geass instead of Death note, but guess that's a story for another time.
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