AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Toradora!

Notices

View Poll Results: Toradora! - Episode 19 Rating
Perfect 10 151 66.23%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 39 17.11%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 19 8.33%
7 out of 10 : Good 10 4.39%
6 out of 10 : Average 4 1.75%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.44%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 4 1.75%
Voters: 228. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 2009-02-12, 14:46   Link #81
palmtopDRAGON
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NY
Age: 27
Send a message via AIM to palmtopDRAGON
Hey guys,

I'm new here, I've been watching the anime, and I decided I wanted to join in on the discussions.

Episode 19 was great. I'm still waiting on the subs, but from what I saw/understood there are some good things happening. I still feel that there is more to come from Minori, though. I don't remember who it was, but you've been discussion the way in which she left Ryuji down. Her not making eye contact says to me she didn't do it for her own sake, and eventually those feelings will come forth. We'll see.

I'm actually more curious why a large majority of people on the internet don't want a TaigaxRyuji ending.
palmtopDRAGON is offline  
Old 2009-02-12, 15:22   Link #82
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 56
I don't *think* its a "large majority"..... just a vocal one.

If Ami had shown up just a few months earlier this might have been quite a different story. But I think that's something the author WANTS to get across... that time and space and chance have more to do with life than "true soulmates" or anything like that. What we're starting to see is that real life isn't "boy picks the girl, lalala whee" like a harem fantasy -- the girls make their own decisions as well. No matter how much Ryuuji may think he wants Minorin, if she tags herself out - thats the end of it. No matter how much Ami may desire things to be different, she was late and got off on the wrong foot with Ryuuji. She also knows these are the only friends she really has (Kihara and her buddy are really just moths drawn to her light), so SHE's deciding how to proceed to protect her circle of friends. Taiga is trying to do what she thinks Ryuuji wants even though it tears her up once the probable outcome of that is realized.

One of the more interesting things here is that, much like real life, each character is operating with a partial set of information (some of which is wrong) but that drives their choices just the same.
Vexx is offline  
Old 2009-02-12, 15:52   Link #83
Darknemo2000
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Lithuania
Age: 29
Send a message via AIM to Darknemo2000
Vexx, though it may be not a 'majority' I would not call it just a vocal minority either. For a few reasons.

One that TaigaxRyuuji is juts too predictable and not all like that, other is that some people, like me f.e., can't stand Taiga's character, or some simply prefer other girls.

Taiga's and Ryyuuji's relationship can be disturbing, but again it depends on what you think love is. This excessive Ryuuji's care about Taiga looks bit unhealthy. Sometimes like too caring mothers that do not want to admit their children to be grown up... And Taiga being very dependable on him, though she tries to show her independence in the end she still remains as a pet as a final result, palm-top tiger.

Such love can be disturbing to some, as opposed to relationship between two equal people (something in the lines what RuyuujixAmi could be), here we have too deep reaching (maybe even obsessive) caring and dependence, that some have troubles to call true love.
Darknemo2000 is offline  
Old 2009-02-12, 15:57   Link #84
SageGaiGar
You are Next
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NE USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
I don't *think* its a "large majority"..... just a vocal one.

If Ami had shown up just a few months earlier this might have been quite a different story. But I think that's something the author WANTS to get across... that time and space and chance have more to do with life than "true soulmates" or anything like that. What we're starting to see is that real life isn't "boy picks the girl, lalala whee" like a harem fantasy -- the girls make their own decisions as well. No matter how much Ryuuji may think he wants Minorin, if she tags herself out - thats the end of it. No matter how much Ami may desire things to be different, she was late and got off on the wrong foot with Ryuuji. She also knows these are the only friends she really has (Kihara and her buddy are really just moths drawn to her light), so SHE's deciding how to proceed to protect her circle of friends. Taiga is trying to do what she thinks Ryuuji wants even though it tears her up once the probable outcome of that is realized.

One of the more interesting things here is that, much like real life, each character is operating with a partial set of information (some of which is wrong) but that drives their choices just the same.
Couldn't have said it better. It's easier and more masochistically fun to complain about an outcome not going *your* way.

At the start I was more in the camp of finding a TaigaxRyuuji boring 'cliche'. The development along the way has changed that feeling. And this episode clearly shows it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
Vexx, though it may be not a 'majority' I would not call it just a vocal minority either. For a few reasons.

One that TaigaxRyuuji is juts too predictable and not all like that, other is that some people, like me f.e., can't stand Taiga's character, or some simply prefer other girls.

Taiga's and Ryyuuji's relationship can be disturbing, but again it depends on what you think love is. This excessive Ryuuji's care about Taiga looks bit unhealthy. Sometimes like too caring mothers that do not want to admit their children to be grown up... And Taiga being very dependable on him, though she tries to show her independence in the end she still remains as a pet as a final result, palm-top tiger.

Such love can be disturbing to some, as opposed to relationship between two equal people (something in the lines what RuyuujixAmi could be), here we have too deep reaching caring and dependence.
Every opinion has its place but really the questions to ask are:
What is love? Friendship? How much would you sacrifice for others? Is your happiness dependent on others?

Probably a bit much for an episode discussion but these are the questions of the story.
SageGaiGar is offline  
Old 2009-02-12, 16:12   Link #85
Darknemo2000
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Lithuania
Age: 29
Send a message via AIM to Darknemo2000
Well lets say what is a difference of motherly love - one mother cares for her son but allows him to have separate life, another protrudes in every living sphere of her son and basically controls him through her care.

Both mother's love their children but some people may find the second type of love unhealthy.

Same way with this love between Ryuuji and Taiga. Is it real love or an obsessive attachment? A confused friendship or a romance? etc.

It makes you ask questions to which you cannot really find real undeniable answers as the relationship is ... different than you are used to...

Something similar in relationship was when AsukaxShinji questions rose more than ten years ago in Evangelion... Though in that case because Shinji and Asuka were much more mentally disturbed than Taiga and Ryuuji their love was much easier to label as a disturbing one.
Darknemo2000 is offline  
Old 2009-02-12, 16:28   Link #86
Kyanme
suzuya_luvrx666
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: witchville
Age: 22
Send a message via AIM to Kyanme Send a message via MSN to Kyanme
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
Same way with this love between Ryuuji and Taiga. Is it real love or an obsessive attachment? A confused friendship or a romance? etc.
...What love? Up until now, it was friendship. Nothing more, nothing less. They were and are friends. We won't know if their relationship is/would be healthy until it actually happens.

I'm pretty confident in saying it'd be a normal relationship with lots of tsundereism, but that's me.

On topic, are subs out yet? /lazy
__________________
kawaii signature.png!!

tumblr | i don't have any other links to post here, whoops
Kyanme is offline  
Old 2009-02-12, 16:42   Link #87
Deathscyther
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The Netherlands
Age: 26
Everyone has a different opinion about 'love' There isn't a right answer to questions like 'what is true love' either.

So of course some people wouldn't lable TaigaxRyuuji as love, just as some people wouldn't lable RyuujixMinorin as love. Which one is better, which one is true love? We can't be the judges of that. Outsiders can say what they want, but it's about their feelings in the end.

But that's what make these kind of stories great to watch. Everyone has his/her own opinion about the matter, just like this is the case in real life.
__________________
Deathscyther is offline  
Old 2009-02-12, 16:57   Link #88
Kinku
Hate a Hater.Love a Lover
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 29
Send a message via MSN to Kinku
I think its normal for Ryuuji and Taiga starting to have feeling for each other... they both set out looking for love and slowly thier path about to criss cross with each other.... through good times and bad times they were there for each other in thier search for love. Just like in battle, bonds are created between people and thats how i felt Ryuuji and Taiga relationship was develope through out the show.
__________________
☆● PeAcE N Love●☆
Kinku is offline  
Old 2009-02-12, 17:14   Link #89
Oberon
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2004
Out of curiosity, when Taiga tried to set up Ryuuji and Minori, does she still operate under the assumption that it's mainly Ryuuji who's interested in Minori, or is she aware that Minori did indeed like Ryuuji back and would have "gone for it" on her own accord?
Oberon is offline  
Old 2009-02-12, 17:21   Link #90
Kinku
Hate a Hater.Love a Lover
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 29
Send a message via MSN to Kinku
i dont think Taiga actually knows Minori has feeling for Ryuuji otherwise it would been easier to hook both them up.
__________________
☆● PeAcE N Love●☆
Kinku is offline  
Old 2009-02-12, 17:50   Link #91
Oberon
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinku View Post
i dont think Taiga actually knows Minori has feeling for Ryuuji otherwise it would been easier to hook both them up.
Hmm, if that's right then I really hope this will somehow get addressed by the author before the end, otherwise these circumstances, which will then lead to Taiga and Ryuuji finally together, would seem a bit too "railroaded" for my personal tastes.
Oberon is offline  
Old 2009-02-12, 18:20   Link #92
Led_Zeppelin
Achilles Last Stand
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Bs As, Argentina
Age: 27
Send a message via MSN to Led_Zeppelin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
Out of curiosity, when Taiga tried to set up Ryuuji and Minori, does she still operate under the assumption that it's mainly Ryuuji who's interested in Minori, or is she aware that Minori did indeed like Ryuuji back and would have "gone for it" on her own accord?
In the novels Taiga Believes that Minori love Ryuuji ...

"She believed that Minori was attracted to Ryuuji. She believed that Ryuuji really liked Minori. In other words, their feelings were mutual"

and in the anime she have the same thoughts...
__________________
Led_Zeppelin is offline  
Old 2009-02-12, 18:27   Link #93
Oberon
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Led_Zeppelin View Post
In the novels Taiga Believes that Minori love Ryuuji ...

"She believed that Minori was attracted to Ryuuji. She believed that Ryuuji really liked Minori. In other words, their feelings were mutual"

and in the anime she have the same thoughts...
Ah, thanks for the clarification.
Oberon is offline  
Old 2009-02-12, 18:38   Link #94
typhonsentra
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
I don't think she says love. At least according to Roan's translation, she said "Attraction" on Minori's part.
typhonsentra is offline  
Old 2009-02-12, 18:52   Link #95
Waking_Dreamer
Dreamer King
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: lost - with no intention to be found...
Age: 28
Okay, I havent read the novels but I dont see what the problem here is.

Okay, okay maybe its the guy in me...but why can it go both ways?!

So what if Minori and Ryuuji hook up? How does this seriously change Ryuuji and Taiga's relationship? They'll still be eating dinner at his place, spending time at school, eating the same prepared lunches.

Its not like Taiga dislikes Minori's company either, so why cant she be holding Ryuuji's hand and be taking to them about UFOs while Taiga is poking Ryuuji's face asking why there isnt more meat in her obento...

If you chose not to go melodramatic about it...its hardly the end of the world...
__________________

All current Sig & Avy images coloured by me / Waking Dreams Studios
Waking_Dreamer is offline  
Old 2009-02-12, 19:07   Link #96
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 56
Aye, a "significant number" of posters would prefer RxT or RxM or RxA (or they dance off into poly or yuri land ). I just grimaced at "Large Majority" because that simply isn't known information. No one has done a survey. So asserting anything other than "a significant number" is hyperbole. It also doesn't address whether one is speaking of the target audience (domestic japanese fans), western fans, or the overall world audience; especially since the latter two don't officially exist at all

@Waking Dreamer: as a guy... that might make sense but not many real women seem to go for the polygamic solutions. That's just not the kind of future relationship each of these girls will consider. And as I said earlier, these women make their own decisions in this story, a long way off from "what will Ryuuji do? A? B? C?) This isn't a harem game story.... its really kind of hilariously subversive to me that Toradora! was ever sold under a shounen publisher to begin with (maybe seinen/josei or both). The authoress is clearly having a good time with that.
Vexx is offline  
Old 2009-02-12, 19:45   Link #97
Kinku
Hate a Hater.Love a Lover
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 29
Send a message via MSN to Kinku
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waking_Dreamer View Post
Okay, I havent read the novels but I dont see what the problem here is.

Okay, okay maybe its the guy in me...but why can it go both ways?!

So what if Minori and Ryuuji hook up? How does this seriously change Ryuuji and Taiga's relationship? They'll still be eating dinner at his place, spending time at school, eating the same prepared lunches.

Its not like Taiga dislikes Minori's company either, so why cant she be holding Ryuuji's hand and be taking to them about UFOs while Taiga is poking Ryuuji's face asking why there isnt more meat in her obento...

If you chose not to go melodramatic about it...its hardly the end of the world...
It would be diffrent if Taiga actually like Ryuuji more than a friend... then it would be a werid triangle relationship. Thats why Minori isnt really going for Ryuuji
__________________
☆● PeAcE N Love●☆
Kinku is offline  
Old 2009-02-12, 19:51   Link #98
Peanutbutter
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Aye, a "significant number" of posters would prefer RxT or RxM or RxA (or they dance off into poly or yuri land ). I just grimaced at "Large Majority" because that simply isn't known information. No one has done a survey. So asserting anything other than "a significant number" is hyperbole. It also doesn't address whether one is speaking of the target audience (domestic japanese fans), western fans, or the overall world audience; especially since the latter two don't officially exist at all
That's why we need one. Where is this place? Where are we? Where are the polls?
Peanutbutter is offline  
Old 2009-02-12, 20:17   Link #99
Waking_Dreamer
Dreamer King
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: lost - with no intention to be found...
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
@Waking Dreamer: as a guy... that might make sense but not many real women seem to go for the polygamic solutions. That's just not the kind of future relationship each of these girls will consider. And as I said earlier, these women make their own decisions in this story, a long way off from "what will Ryuuji do? A? B? C?) This isn't a harem game story.... its really kind of hilariously subversive to me that Toradora! was ever sold under a shounen publisher to begin with (maybe seinen/josei or both). The authoress is clearly having a good time with that.
Ay okay...maybe I sometimes forget to take off my harem goggles when looking at a situation...still.

So whats going to happen now, is Taiga going to want to have kisses and hugs from Ryuuji? Yes they're more than friends, best of friends even. Though she seemed perfectly fine with the previous situation...being close to Ryuuji, talking about personal stuff and being completely comfortable WHILE not desiring to have him kiss her, or have his arms constantly around her.

Cause if theyre goin to be an official couple but still have the same interaction between each other - minus the presence of Minori...that kind sucks...
__________________

All current Sig & Avy images coloured by me / Waking Dreams Studios
Waking_Dreamer is offline  
Old 2009-02-12, 20:38   Link #100
BetoJR
D-d-don't look!!!
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fortaleza-CE, Brazil
Age: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinku View Post
It would be diffrent if Taiga actually like Ryuuji more than a friend... then it would be a werid triangle relationship. Thats why Minori isnt really going for Ryuuji
Wait... What? Come again? Am I the only one who really did not understand this?
__________________
It's always a great time to immerse yourself in Deculture love!
All hail the Empress!!!

BetoJR is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:19.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.