2009-02-12, 06:18 | Link #1584 | |
is this so?
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Gradius Home World
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I come from a country whose main religion is catholicism. Some catholics here (my coworkers are a good example) get shocked if they knew someone is an atheist. Their usual threats would be either I'd spend eternity in limbo or an evil spirit would surely possess me someday.
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Last edited by Liddo-kun; 2009-02-12 at 07:40. |
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2009-02-12, 09:35 | Link #1585 | |
Please call me "senpai":)
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I am + know any Catholics. Some are very conservative, espacially the older persons, but I have to say that these are the less ones.
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2009-02-12, 12:40 | Link #1586 | |
Human
Join Date: Aug 2004
Age: 37
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The reasoning behind the dislike of atheism comes from the idea that religion = morality. Some people assume that without a god to tell you what's good or bad, atheists must be amoral hedonists who will do anything without hesitation to satisfy their desires. Personally, I feel like this attitude says a lot more about the person thinking it than the atheist. Does that mean that they, without the threat of hell or whatever, would be an amoral hedonist? That they need some carrot and stick reward to be moral? That's kind of scary actually. Anyway, atheists generally have some secular philosophy of morality, of which there are an absurd number to choose from (the philosophy of secular morality has been discussed since ~500 BC at the very least; the Greeks even had a simple "proof" that morality must exist prior to God). The most basic of course is "treat others in the way you'd like to be treated" or some derivation of that. |
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2009-02-12, 14:20 | Link #1587 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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I'd just add this to Clarste's note:
Evolution seems to drive the idea that for social animals, "win-win" is better served by cooperation rather than selfish actions, hence the natural tendency to share resources once a critter has been socialized. Selfishness still cuts in of course, but the group tends to naturally discourage such behavior (at least publicly). That is the behavior seen in all social animals. That's speculated to be the underlying basis for the moral - "treat other people the way you want to be treated" that every sustainable religion in the world has as a core belief. And yes, the surest path to political death in the USA is to admit being an agnostic or atheist. The average voter doesn't necessarily care WHICH you are (though Muslim seems to scare a few, we do have a Muslim or two in Congress) -- you can be Hindu, Buddhist, Mormon, Catholic, etc ... what seems to scare them is the notion that someone has an ethical system that doesn't derive from "a higher source". Interestingly, USA is about the only industrialized nation in the world where many of the voters place that check on any priority list at all, outside of those countries where people actually shoot each other or form political parties based on their religious quirks.
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Last edited by Vexx; 2009-02-12 at 14:30. |
2009-02-12, 15:07 | Link #1589 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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Ah yes.. Fox "News".. the disinformation source for the 30%ers so they can remain in their little fantasy world, imaginary revisionist history, and roll in fear and anxiety. Toxic....
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2009-02-12, 15:11 | Link #1590 | |
I'll end it before April.
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Personnaly, I'm atheist but i have a strong sense of values, I have dream etc.... But i don't believe in God that's all. But i think the more the society progress the more there is Atheist (sorry i'm not sure how to say that in English). And i tend to believe that's for many peoples the only god is money...
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2009-02-12, 15:15 | Link #1591 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 31
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2009-02-12, 15:18 | Link #1592 | |
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2006
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It was Socrates who asked the following: "Is conduct right because the gods command it, or do the gods command it because it is right?" Both ways lead to serious difficulty. If something is right simply because god has commanded it, than anything would have been okay prior to god making it a rule, including murder and lying. So from an objective standpoint, god could've just as easily chosen things the other way around and murder would be completely alright, which goes against human reason. Therefore it's more likely morals are derived from reason, not god given. Otherwise all atheists would be murdering. If you go the other way, there must be some kind of "rightness" that exists independently of god, which he in his almighty wisdom has acknowledged to be right and therefore commands it. However this view is quite secular since god wouldn't actually be the almighty creator. Morality would somehow be greater than god. |
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2009-02-12, 15:43 | Link #1594 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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Spoiler for Probably moving off-topic here:
We're starting to move off topic here.... the line of query is "what's your religion" .... not "what's wrong with religion or the lack of it". People may explain WHY they feel a certain way and others can direct them to information that may resolve that -- but the mods are pretty firm about deleting derails away from that.
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2009-02-12, 15:51 | Link #1595 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: In line to confess his sins.
Age: 36
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I know plenty of nice Catholics too. There are, after all, around a billion of them, there's bound to be both nice and not so nice ones.
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2009-02-12, 17:02 | Link #1597 |
suteki da ne?~
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Personally I am agnostic, I grew up with a Catholic family though and I still celebrate Christmas and Easter and stuff. I also go to church(not willingly..) with my parents cause they prefer it.
I believe in a higher power, just not sure what it is yet. I have yet to be enlightened. |
2009-02-12, 18:46 | Link #1598 | |
Human
Join Date: Aug 2004
Age: 37
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Also, you can avoid that dilemma by positing that God is morality and is reason and that rationality among humans is merely partaking in the aspect of God that is reason. Or you could say the exact opposite: that God is beyond reason and, being infinite, is not confined by finite logic. God has long since be de-anthropomorphized by philosophers and is host to all sorts of funny properties. |
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2009-02-12, 19:22 | Link #1599 | |
思想工作
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Vereinigte Staaten
Age: 32
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not a debate, philosophy, religion |
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