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Old 2009-02-11, 20:54   Link #1001
Christen
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This talk of Battler's killer gave me an idea, but it's still farfetched due to Eva's dialogue.

Spoiler for Eva's dialogue:
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Old 2009-02-12, 00:31   Link #1002
Keriaku
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Not to interuppt in the middle of the discussion, but after finally looking through all 51 pages, is there any chance some could translate or even just paraphrase the interviews that were discussed earlier?

http://news.dengeki.com/elem/000/000/107/107667/
http://news.dengeki.com/elem/000/000/109/109077/

And I think there is a Part 3 too.

Another request would be Berun's letter that was apparently included with the game, though I'm more interested in the interviews.
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Old 2009-02-12, 11:01   Link #1003
theacefrehley
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Here's Bernkastel letter, half-assed translation

There's also much more stuff, like lamda-delta's diary and other things

Spoiler:
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Last edited by theacefrehley; 2009-02-13 at 04:58.
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Old 2009-02-12, 15:39   Link #1004
Exilon
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That letter is weird << kinda bugs my mind, though, is it safe to consider what she's writing as hints, or is it just something like a side-note, which has no real meaning?
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Old 2009-02-12, 16:05   Link #1005
Haruyan
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I think it's more like a series of letters. 'Cause it seems like she's responding to someone. Also, it seems at the beginning that the game has not started, but halfway through it's like she's already inside the game, or at least seen it.
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Old 2009-02-12, 19:54   Link #1006
Christen
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I believe there's one more letter from Lambda, now I'm curious on what that her letter says.

The poems intrigue me, specially Bern's. Her earlier poems always hinted at what's happening behind the scenes of each chapter.

Spoiler for Early poems and their meanings from Higurashi:


Now when we get to this particular poem, I can't help but think there's something to it.
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Old 2009-02-13, 05:06   Link #1007
theacefrehley
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Bern's poem is just a devil's proof example, applied to romantic affairs (that's what my level of stupidity allows me understand)
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Old 2009-02-13, 12:05   Link #1008
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I have a feeling that the engagement has some sort of new found significance. That or Ryu trying to mindscrew us again. For the last poem which room is she refering to with "my"? May prove useful.
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Old 2009-02-13, 12:11   Link #1009
theacefrehley
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Here's Lamda's diary
.....


Spoiler:



Hmm
I don't know if her signature came out alright, but it should look like a cat.
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Old 2009-02-13, 12:29   Link #1010
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later, I'll try to translate more of those extra stuff.
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Old 2009-02-13, 13:29   Link #1011
Haruyan
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So, as long as Lambda wills it, Beato is a witch? Lemme, rephrase that, as long as Beato keeps winning, Lambda will support her (against Bern?) What happens when Beato loses?

I think Lambda's letter is a clue to Beato's origin. If we think of them as personalized concepts, Lambda is the certainty that something will always happen (Absoluteness), Bern could be the random chance for something to happen (Miracles), then what could Beato be if her supposed power is Endlessness. It could reveal the motive for the murders (if we remember Higurashi, Lambda's Absoluteness was expressed by Takano's will), and thus, the real culprit.

These are just my thoughts though.
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Old 2009-02-13, 13:34   Link #1012
Exilon
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From what I know, Beato's power is being able to "kill a human a thousand times"; which, in my opinion, is the power to makie the same thing with minor differences happen over and over again (in Higurashi, this was caused by takano's will, in Umineko, since Lambda's power isn't present, no one has the determination she had, so the fact that everything happens at the same time in this year (like the typhoon) is probably caused by Beato's power).
I wonder, if we couple the power to repeat things for an endless time with the power to always win (Lambda's absoluteness), what could happen?
...they'll never get bored.
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Old 2009-02-13, 13:50   Link #1013
Haruyan
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I think Beato's power has to do with "having the same thing happen over and over again", and Lambda's power is "have the same result always come up."

Together, it comes up a bit like "have the same result happen over and over again." Maybe?

Bern mentions that she and Beato have the worst combination (that's not the word I was looking for), since Bern looks for chances in variations, it would make sense that she has little power against Beato, who can repeat things (while Lambda only looks for the same result, not the way to get to that result).
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Old 2009-02-15, 15:32   Link #1014
Marion
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Okay I am still VERY confused about one thing in this episode.

Spoiler for Episode 3:


Also: For Lambda's memoirs:

Spoiler for Lambda's memoirs, Higurashi spoilers:


And finally:

Spoiler for Episode 3 Hidden Tea party:


I haven't played 3 in a while and I've been busy with school to look back to it :P Forgive me if I got some things wrong.
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Old 2009-02-15, 15:40   Link #1015
Klashikari
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@ Exilon + Haruyan:
To be more exact, Beato is special because she can sentence to death, regardless of the dice roll, which is why she is such an affinity trouble with Bern.
Bern basically resets the world every time, which can have a result that is factored with random and preordained points. Lambda has a power that will force the dice to have the result she wants, hence certainty.
Since bern can create a situation as long the probability of it happening not being 0, it doesn't conflict with Lambda's power, and on the long run, if the dice is favorable to Bern, she can overcome Lambda's certainty, as Lambda's result is always fix.

Beato, however, is tricky because she ignores these requirements and goes on rampage, regardless the situation (hence, the rules are: the culprit either change or goes in the flow). If the situation changes, the modus operandi as well, etc.
That is why Bern has trouble, since not only she can't read Beato's strategy or even tactics (due to her being fickle), but the dice is basically almost irrelevant.


@ Marion:
1) Regardless if supernatural exists or not, what is shown to use doesn't mean it exists (otherwise, you have no room for arguing against Beato's ostentatious magic tricks).
Therefore, on the fantasy side, Eva-Beatrice might be simply Beato's creation. Even if it isn't the case, another entity isn't out of question considering the setup.
As for the reality, since we cannot take granted with everything, we can conclude that:
a) Eva-Beatrice shows Eva acting as the culprit
b) Someone framing Eva, or completely unrelated
c) does not exist at all

2) huh... Lambda's memoires?
And no, she didn't consider herself as Bern's sister, especially considering ep3 and ep4.

3) That is actually what was explained weeks ago yes.
Both Virgilia and Lambda were required for Beato's status. The magical arts and the other tribe recommendation. That is, it is hinted that Beato is on her own, for personal reasons.
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Old 2009-02-15, 15:51   Link #1016
Marion
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Message 1009 - theacefrehley translating Lambda's diary XD Sorry if that was confusing.

Thanks for answering my questions.

Spoiler for Ep 3:
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Old 2009-02-15, 16:00   Link #1017
theacefrehley
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Would you guys prefer anti-fantasy x anti-mystery or stakes's valentine day first?
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Old 2009-02-15, 16:29   Link #1018
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Anti-fantasyxAnti-mystery please!
And thanks for these translations
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Old 2009-02-15, 17:16   Link #1019
Haruyan
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Quote:
To be more exact, Beato is special because she can sentence to death, regardless of the dice roll, which is why she is such an affinity trouble with Bern.
Bern basically resets the world every time, which can have a result that is factored with random and preordained points. Lambda has a power that will force the dice to have the result she wants, hence certainty.
Since bern can create a situation as long the probability of it happening not being 0, it doesn't conflict with Lambda's power, and on the long run, if the dice is favorable to Bern, she can overcome Lambda's certainty, as Lambda's result is always fix.

Beato, however, is tricky because she ignores these requirements and goes on rampage, regardless the situation (hence, the rules are: the culprit either change or goes in the flow). If the situation changes, the modus operandi as well, etc.
That is why Bern has trouble, since not only she can't read Beato's strategy or even tactics (due to her being fickle), but the dice is basically almost irrelevant.
....that's what I said...or what I was trying to say.

This is turning out to be a multi-level game. We have the game between Battler and Beatrice, the game between Beatrice and Bern, and I think that on a larger scale, it's also a game between Lambda and Bern.

I still think that the three witches (Beato, Bern and Lambda) are personalized concepts in the Umineko world, and thus related to the real culprit and motives. Beato mentions that she can deny witches, and confesses to Eva-Beatrice how it could be done without magic, I interpreted that as "it wasn't done with magic, but I did it anyway, I'm just lying to Battler to keep playing with him".

I think Bern's and Lambda's diary/letters could be a big clue, or a red herring...or maybe even both...
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Old 2009-02-15, 18:14   Link #1020
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Okay, now that I've read all EP3 and the entire topic, I'm going to post what I came up with (sorry if my English isn't correct, I’m French).

Let's start with the suspects.

Spoiler for Suspicious people:



Now, let's take a look at the previous episodes.

Spoiler for ep1:


This turned out to be longer than I thought, I will post my comments about ep2, ep3 and the epitaph in another post...

Last edited by Chadauw; 2009-02-15 at 18:27.
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