AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Maria-sama

Notices

View Poll Results: Maria-sama ga Miteru 4th - Episode 7 Rating
Perfect 10 18 37.50%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 21 43.75%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 6 12.50%
7 out of 10 : Good 3 6.25%
6 out of 10 : Average 0 0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 48. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 2009-02-16, 01:40   Link #21
textgirl
Junior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
well my intake on this is like whoa i knew this was going to happen with yumi and touko but its so intense then just reading it i felt bad for yumi touko has to stop in my personal opinion she dose not deserve yumi's kindness and excuse my french toukos additude was stank i know ppl go though thier problems but that was just wrong after yumi tried to help but i love sachicko she was the rock in this ep. for yumi i was just glad she was there she and yumi have grown termendously from season 1and2
textgirl is offline  
Old 2009-02-16, 07:46   Link #22
Proto
Knowledge is the solution
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: U. of Pittsburgh, Previously in Mexico City.
Age: 29
My guess is that Touko pretty much felt that Yumi was giving her her rosary out of pity, so she pretty much felt insulted. Pretty understandable when you factor in her personality and way of seeing things.
Proto is offline  
Old 2009-02-16, 10:10   Link #23
Gsus
Junior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Holland
Age: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiroth View Post
Ultimate shock of the episode, Kanako has ONLY JUST joined the basketball team?
It shouldn't be that surprising, considering she has only "just" resolved her issues with her father.
Her father ruined her dear sempai's basketball career, it shouldn't come as a huge surprise some of that hatred spilt over to basketball.

Good for her, but I think we won't be seeing a lot of her since her story's basically over and done with now.

Then again, it opens up great side-story possibilities / doujin fiction: Kanako, in awe of her sempai's dunking skills, enlists in the basketball club! She show great talent but she only wants to slam dunk! With the National Interhigh coming up, Kanako has to train hard and fast to make a chance!
And as if that wasn't enough, Kanako has set her sights on a young student, who is head over heels for Kanako's rival in the team!
Will Kanako succeed in winning her heart and making her her soeur? Find out in Summer 2009! (Either Comiket 76 or the Naisho! extras, whichever comes first).
Gsus is offline  
Old 2009-02-16, 11:45   Link #24
Molenir
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Quote:
My guess is that Touko pretty much felt that Yumi was giving her her rosary out of pity, so she pretty much felt insulted. Pretty understandable when you factor in her personality and way of seeing things.
I agree with this actually. I think Touko misinterpreted Yumi, when she was offered it. Much the same as Yumi misinterpreted Sachiko the previous year. Yumi realized that Touko was the one she wanted as her little sister, and upon doing so, acted immediately, to her own misfortune as Touko spurned her "pity". I think in being offered the Rosary there, Touko was really hurt, and thats part of the reason she acted the way she did. In thinking that she was receiving it out of pity, Touko's self esteem took a hit, and her regard for Yumi did as well.

Touko will eventually understand, just as Yumi herself did with Sachiko, that the offer was genuine, and not done out of pity, but rather out of a realization that she is the one for her.
Molenir is offline  
Old 2009-02-16, 11:50   Link #25
Proto
Knowledge is the solution
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: U. of Pittsburgh, Previously in Mexico City.
Age: 29
In Sachiko's case I don't really see the first offer being genuine though
Proto is offline  
Old 2009-02-16, 16:11   Link #26
Shigan
Forever a Journey
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Close to the northpole
Very good episode. And lol, Yoshino's and Rei's little jealousy game slayed me xD.

And its nice to see that Yumi is continuing the proud Chinesis tradition of getting turned down flat. Atta girl, atta.
Shigan is offline  
Old 2009-02-16, 16:28   Link #27
cynicalicious
I like pie.
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
I pretty much agree with 4Tran on this. While Yumi is my favorite character, she's clueless and impulsive, and sometimes doesn't think past herself. In this case, she did just about everything she could to send the message to Touko that "You're an afterthought," even though she cares about Touko a great deal.

For starters, inviting Kanako along with Touko was a real blow to Touko's ego, I'd wager. I haven't gotten that far in the book yet, so I can't say for sure, but were I Touko, I'd be kind of irritated. (If you care about me so much, why are you inviting her too? Am I just goldfish droppings?)

Going into "Sachiko mode" at the party wasn't much help either. And I while I know it's important to be polite to Kanako, Yumi needed to focus on Touko at the party if she really wanted to make her her soeur.

Yumi made a number of mistakes in dealing with Touko that hurt her feelings, so it was natural that she'd get rebuffed. Yumi forgot her own obeservation-- she [Touko] is very delicate. Touko is easily hurt, and quick to take offense. Yumi is good-natured, but clumsy as hell sometimes.

I felt bad for Yumi, but, well, that was hole she dug for herself. I can't really blame Touko for saying no. Yumi's got a lot of work ahead of her.

Either way, great episode. If it all was rainbows and sunshine, it wouldn't be worth watching. The great thing about the series (books and anime) is how the characters develop.

Good times.
cynicalicious is offline  
Old 2009-02-16, 22:55   Link #28
Sinestra
ショ ン (^^)
*IT Support
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Freedom Guard Ship Amaterasu
Send a message via AIM to Sinestra Send a message via MSN to Sinestra Send a message via Yahoo to Sinestra
Thumbs up

There are so many reasons why episode 7 was so exquisite its hard to know where to start. I feel that not only was the mood and portryal of the characters feelings were spot on but the music amplfied certain scenes allowing you to feel the emotions of the characters invovled.

Tsutako is just a wonderful chatacter even if she is not considered one of the main cast. Her cheerful personality and way of turning a akward sitauation around is noteworthy. When no one else knew what to say in a matter of seconds she managed to to difuse the sitaution and put everyone at ease.

I cant believe how flawlessly they transitioned scenes in this episode. The episode itself was quite decieving in a good way. The main focus of the first half was on the party and it seemed the episode would revolve around Yoshino and Nana and how Rei would cope with the situation. But by time the first half of the introductions were over one could tell that it was not going to be the case. But they once again pulled you back in after Shimako's and Yumi's talk outside which gave me another realization but i will get to that later. As we return to the room Yoshino has discoved that Rei will not be attending Liliian Uni. After an honest and direct explanation causing the situation to diffused itself. Yoshino showed signs of her starting to mature. If this would have been the first season she would have been upset for days and not have spoken to Rei. I found this scene to show more than what was really being said after watching the characters facial expressions.

Up to this point everything had gone quite well and then suddenly we transition into a serious theme involving Yumi and Touko. I loved how Touko spoke during her conversation with Yumi. As she gave a monolog earlier this time it was like she was giving her own about her life. The lesson she was portraying is a basic one and that is life is not fair and no matter how much you dream of something often more than not that dream will never become the full reality that we build up in our heads. Using her past self as an example she gives an example and its very accuratly portrayed. Notice the lack of emotion in Toukos eyes while telling Yumi the story. As she walks away we are again pulled in and another transition takes place. I knew this scene was going to happen i however thought it was be episode 8. Touko refusing Yumis rosary was only natural at this point given Toukos problems. But the way she did it was comfort herself by using sarcasm as a defense in the end i believe she hurt Yumi more than she intended. So far its shaping up like how Yumi and Sachiko started out. Which brings us to our last transition in the episode.

Yumi personality is that of someone who is naturally happy and puts others before her. So when Sachiko handed her the present im sure she did want to spoil the moment the scene was very delightful as most of Sachiko and Yumi's scenes are when they are alone. Both their gifts were perfect baring a red roses of the Rosa Chinensis family of Liliian Youko. Sachiko and Yumi Sachiko lives up to her acute sense of detail and notices instantly something is wrong with Yumi (start the slow violin sonata perfect for this scene). The following scene is touching one as Sachiko tries to comfort Yumi and encourage her not to give up by telling her how she felt when Yumi first rejected her. But you could notice the shock on Sachikos face when Yumi told her, almost like she didnt expect Touko to decline. The timing was terrible and Touko did not feel like Yumi was asking her to actually be her sister Touko felt like she was pitting her and Touko defenses went right up.

Over all i feel this episode was top notch in both quality and character development with excellent writing. The emotions portrayed by all the characters are just so well done it easy to get lost in their world looks like we have another winner with Maria-sama. I know im singing this episodes praises but i really do this it deserves it.

If you couldn't guess 10/10

My theory on Touko is that she had a fight with her family about what she wants to do when she grows up. I believe she wants to act for a living but her family felt otherwise and since they don't understand she ran away ending up Yumi's. Thats m theory anyway.
__________________
Sinestra is offline  
Old 2009-02-16, 23:27   Link #29
mintyfresh
Altoid
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by cynicalicious View Post
I pretty much agree with 4Tran on this. While Yumi is my favorite character, she's clueless and impulsive, and sometimes doesn't think past herself. In this case, she did just about everything she could to send the message to Touko that "You're an afterthought," even though she cares about Touko a great deal.
You bring up some pretty good pretty good points in your post. I never looked at Yumi as so much at fault before now.

Quote:
For starters, inviting Kanako along with Touko was a real blow to Touko's ego, I'd wager. I haven't gotten that far in the book yet, so I can't say for sure, but were I Touko, I'd be kind of irritated. (If you care about me so much, why are you inviting her too? Am I just goldfish droppings?)
This however, I'm inclined to slightly contend with. If this were the case, I think Touko might have been a bit more relieved to go to the Yamayurikai party after Kanako said that she was likely unable to attend.
But more than anything, Touko's reaction to the invitation was probably because she had just been avoiding Yumi altogether. I'm certain a part of her found the fact that Yumi knew that she had ran away terribly embarassing, and she had since been trying to avoid talking about it (or even being reminded of it) at all costs. That is to say, going to the party was probably the last thing Touko wanted to do. Nevertheless, she went along anyway, possibly because she may have a hard time fighting back the other part of her that indeed does want to see Yumi.
__________________
mintyfresh is offline  
Old 2009-02-17, 10:27   Link #30
cynicalicious
I like pie.
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Yeah, I was guessing because I haven't read that far in the book yet, so it's hard to say for sure what Touko was thinking when Yumi invited them both to the party, but judging from Noriko's rather strong opposition to inviting both of them (instead, I think, of just inviting Touko), I thought I was on the right track. I was keeping in mind the fact that Noriko is one of the more "normal" people in the series, and that she also cares a great deal about Touko.

Either way, this reminds me of the whole discussion during Rainy Blue over who was more at fault. And while the anime made it look like like poor little Yumi got bulldozed by evil Sachiko and Touko's evil eyebrows, the reality was that Yumi ran away from her responsibilities in her relationship with Sachiko because she was being paranoid and childish, and wasn't unable to trust the person she loved at a critical moment. She wasn't *entirely* at fault (Sachiko was acting really weird, after all), but she wasn't blameless, either.

As the saying goes, it takes two to tango.

But she learned a Valuable Lesson, grew a bit as a character, and it made for some nice drama.
cynicalicious is offline  
Old 2009-02-17, 13:58   Link #31
Otus
Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by cynicalicious View Post
Either way, this reminds me of the whole discussion during Rainy Blue over who was more at fault. And while the anime made it look like like poor little Yumi got bulldozed by evil Sachiko and Touko's evil eyebrows, the reality was that Yumi ran away from her responsibilities in her relationship with Sachiko because she was being paranoid and childish, and wasn't unable to trust the person she loved at a critical moment. She wasn't *entirely* at fault (Sachiko was acting really weird, after all), but she wasn't blameless, either.
It's not uncommon to see people who have read the novel loving Touko, while those who have just seen anime are feeling very differently. I guess it's something to be expected with such a fast pace and the focus of the previous seasons being mainly Yumi & Sachiko.
Otus is offline  
Old 2009-02-17, 14:01   Link #32
Proto
Knowledge is the solution
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: U. of Pittsburgh, Previously in Mexico City.
Age: 29
<-- anime-only viewer + likes Touko.


There are of course some blank spaces in the character development department on both sides, but it's not difficult to see why they ended up liking each other (Yumi and Touko that is). At least from how I see it

Last edited by Proto; 2009-02-17 at 14:50.
Proto is offline  
Old 2009-02-17, 14:37   Link #33
4Tran
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by cynicalicious View Post
I pretty much agree with 4Tran on this. While Yumi is my favorite character, she's clueless and impulsive, and sometimes doesn't think past herself. In this case, she did just about everything she could to send the message to Touko that "You're an afterthought," even though she cares about Touko a great deal.
While Yumi can be clueless and impulsive at times, she's generally quite perceptive. In this episode, she happened to completely misread Touko which is where all the drama arises from.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cynicalicious View Post
For starters, inviting Kanako along with Touko was a real blow to Touko's ego, I'd wager. I haven't gotten that far in the book yet, so I can't say for sure, but were I Touko, I'd be kind of irritated. (If you care about me so much, why are you inviting her too? Am I just goldfish droppings?)
I don't think that this registers to any significant degree. Touko was disinclined to attend the party for her own reasons, and it's the inclusion of Kanako that brought her along.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cynicalicious View Post
Going into "Sachiko mode" at the party wasn't much help either. And I while I know it's important to be polite to Kanako, Yumi needed to focus on Touko at the party if she really wanted to make her her soeur.
That's much more of a kicker. Yumi was giving off the wrong signals as to her intentions, and Touko was busy dealing with her own issues. One of the biggest reasons for Touko's rejection was her pride - she misinterpreted Yumi's intentions as arising from pity, and being pitied was the last thing she wanted. Touko has yet to learn that Yumi is incapable of being insincere no matter how much she tries...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otus View Post
It's not uncommon to see people who have read the novel loving Touko, while those who have just seen anime are feeling very differently. I guess it's something to be expected with such a fast pace and the focus of the previous seasons being mainly Yumi & Sachiko.
I don't know about that. Most viewers probably have never read the novels/manga (*raises hand*), but many of us don't seem to have any trouble liking Touko.
__________________
The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won...
4Tran is offline  
Old 2009-02-17, 14:48   Link #34
Molenir
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Quote:
While Yumi can be clueless and impulsive at times, she's generally quite perceptive. In this episode, she happened to completely misread Touko which is where all the drama arises from.
I don't think she misread her at all. She just didn't think. She had a flash of realization that Touko was the one for her, and having come to this realization acted immediately. She didn't stop to think whether it was the right time, or whether or not Touko would accept. She had been troubled by who would fit her best. Having realizing it, she acted. Obviously she would have been better served to wait a day or 2, for the right moment, then act. Even then however, I'm not sure Touko would have accepted, without Yumi explaining why.

I've read the first 5 books. Whats been translated. Touko hasn't yet been introduced. I'm a big fan of Touko. I started liking her during episode 1, season 3, at the party.
Molenir is offline  
Old 2009-02-17, 14:59   Link #35
Sinestra
ショ ン (^^)
*IT Support
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Freedom Guard Ship Amaterasu
Send a message via AIM to Sinestra Send a message via MSN to Sinestra Send a message via Yahoo to Sinestra
Quote:
Originally Posted by Molenir View Post
I don't think she misread her at all. She just didn't think. She had a flash of realization that Touko was the one for her, and having come to this realization acted immediately. She didn't stop to think whether it was the right time, or whether or not Touko would accept. She had been troubled by who would fit her best. Having realizing it, she acted. Obviously she would have been better served to wait a day or 2, for the right moment, then act. Even then however, I'm not sure Touko would have accepted, without Yumi explaining why.

I've read the first 5 books. Whats been translated. Touko hasn't yet been introduced. I'm a big fan of Touko. I started liking her during episode 1, season 3, at the party.
I actually think it was combination of your's and 4tran's thoughts. Yumi had been leaning towards Touko for a while now i think that it was going to take one little push for to solidify it and that happen at the wrong time and Yumi acted on it not realizing nor evaluating the situation. But she also misread Touko to a certain extent because of how personal the story was that Touko told her. How often have we seen Touko open up like and speak from her heart not very often and usually it happens with Yumi. Touko also misread Yumi but it was easy to see why she did. I believe you are both right about circumstances and 4tran hit the mark about Touko's pride.

You both deserve some cookies for these nice post im going to rep you guys when i get a sec.

Man watching the episode again i dont think we have ever seen Yumi cry like that it kind of broke my heart. Which got me thinking what ran through Touko's mind as she left? did she cry when she was alone? or did the whole situation not bother her at all?
__________________
Sinestra is offline  
Old 2009-02-17, 15:02   Link #36
4Tran
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Molenir View Post
I don't think she misread her at all. She just didn't think. She had a flash of realization that Touko was the one for her, and having come to this realization acted immediately. She didn't stop to think whether it was the right time, or whether or not Touko would accept. She had been troubled by who would fit her best.
That's partially what I mean by misreading Touko. The other part of it is not stopping to think about what Touko had been going through and how she would perceive the situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinestra View Post
I believe you are both right about circumstances and 4tran hit the mark about Touko's pride.
This play on pride is an element that used to be pretty common in shoujo works, but that I haven't seen much of recently. Marimite draws a great deal from the older tradition (hello, Oniisama e), so it's only natural for this to show up in some way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinestra View Post
Man watching the episode again i dont think we have ever seen Yumi cry like that it kind of broke my heart. Which got me thinking what ran through Touko's mind as she left? did she cry when she was alone? or did the whole situation not bother her at all?
Touko is probably just about as broken up about it as Yumi. You can tell that she wanted to accept the offer very badly, but that she couldn't allow herself to do so. It's doubly sad for Touko since her rejection was based on thinking that Yumi's offer wasn't for her sake, but based on the last thing that she wanted Yumi to feel for her - pity. She can't see from Yumi's point of view, so she has no idea how much it hurt the other party as well. Which of course is a ripe recipe for melodrama .
__________________
The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won...
4Tran is offline  
Old 2009-02-17, 15:52   Link #37
Sinestra
ショ ン (^^)
*IT Support
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Freedom Guard Ship Amaterasu
Send a message via AIM to Sinestra Send a message via MSN to Sinestra Send a message via Yahoo to Sinestra
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
Touko is probably just about as broken up about it as Yumi. You can tell that she wanted to accept the offer very badly, but that she couldn't allow herself to do so. It's doubly sad for Touko since her rejection was based on thinking that Yumi's offer wasn't for her sake, but based on the last thing that she wanted Yumi to feel for her - pity. She can't see from Yumi's point of view, so she has no idea how much it hurt the other party as well. Which of course is a ripe recipe for melodrama .
I think thats pretty much right and thats the feeling i had. Touko is not really prone to show such emotions in public and unless we see what shes thinking she would never come out and say directly without someone like Sachiko or Kashiwagi intervening. This is what i dont want to happen too many people have been involved with them for far too long I would like to see them work this out by themselves it would make it all the sweeter and make more melodrama and we all love melodrama.
__________________
Sinestra is offline  
Old 2009-02-17, 17:32   Link #38
dream-seeker
soar high
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Washington State
Age: 31
Send a message via Yahoo to dream-seeker
From another point of view:

Touko must really like Yumi. Her rejection maybe 'not' out of misreading Yumi pitied her, but for Yumi-sama's sake. Touko probably thought it was better not to dragged Yumi into her family affairs / personal problems. Yumi's offer of the rosary was also a symbol that Yumi has a say in her life as an Onee-sama.
dream-seeker is offline  
Old 2009-02-17, 20:26   Link #39
Matrim
Naysayer?Fanboy?Wiseacre?
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Rei surely likes to live on the edge, I was a bit surprised she didn't get much more in the way of angry outburst from Yoshino, possibly including attempts of using violence.

And Yumi certainly has learned well from the best in the category of lame rosary offers, viz. Sachiko.

Kidding aside, it was a real quality episode.
__________________
'The world we live in is always in darkness.'
'Yes, and that is why we seek light.'

Matrim is offline  
Old 2009-02-18, 05:56   Link #40
Sorrow-K
Somehow I found out
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 30
It's hard to call this the best episode of the season when there have been so many amazing episodes, but this has got to be up there.

That was an emotional rollercoaster. I went from utter glee at Yumi's offer to a deep feeling of empathy at her heartbreak when she was rejected and in tears in Sachiko's arms. But it was the moment that I saw tears in Sachiko's face that really got me. Sachiko's been there, she knows what it's like to be rejected, and she's obviously feeling for Yumi right now. It was a moment of confirmation that this isn't trivial, this sort of rejection hurts, and it will take a lot from Yumi to get over.

I'm not going to be critical of Yumi's timing at all. All the pressure and emotion of that moment, I can totally understand why she did it then.

Excellent episode.
Sorrow-K is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:41.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.