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View Poll Results: Toradora! - Episode 19 Rating
Perfect 10 151 66.23%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 39 17.11%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 19 8.33%
7 out of 10 : Good 10 4.39%
6 out of 10 : Average 4 1.75%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.44%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 4 1.75%
Voters: 228. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-02-18, 18:21   Link #461
Baka Ronin
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There have been a lot of very interesting things said over the course of this thread and I feel I must finally inject my own opinions.

Minori is "taking one for he team". Its clear she loves Ryuuji and wants to be by his side, but her love for her best friend is stopping her. I wish people we're so self-sacrificing sometimes. Mother Theresa once said that the hunger for Love is much more difficult to remove than the hunger for bread. I agree. This is the kind of psyche shattering thing that can scar people for life. Is Minori strong enough to deal with it and move on? Only time will tell.

Ryuuji is, like most highschool boys, completely inept in matters of love and relationships. He, being a kind gentle soul, seeks to nurture people and prevent them from being hurt, but ends up hurting them unintentionally through his kindness, not understanding that his responses, whilst purely motivated, are not the correct ones. I have been in and seen enough failed relationships to sort of predict where this will go, but logic rarely, if ever, has any bearing on the human heart.

Taiga clearly loves Ryuuji more than she will liklely be able to admit to herself, let alone to the object of her desire. She will probably again "take one for the team" to push Ryuuji towards Minori. I am sure you can see where this is leading. Me, being a typical male would just say try for both and have a nice 3 way relationship, but since this is not a porno I doubt that will happen. One of the two must give in to hear heart's desire or one of two things will occur.

1:Ryuuji will end up with Ami
2: Everyone will be lonely and miserable.

I really cannot forsee another outcome based on what we have seen thus far. I eagerly await the next episode.
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Old 2009-02-18, 18:43   Link #462
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Originally Posted by Kafriel View Post
I just noticed something...when they were at the pool Taiga was making a fuss about being flat but she had no qualms about it when singing with Ami-any particular reasons as to why?
Character growth!

... not that kind of growth.
Yeah.. she prolly got over it. The main reason was because she was intimidated my Ami and we all know how she looks in a bikini.
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Old 2009-02-18, 19:47   Link #463
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Originally Posted by Baka Ronin View Post
Me, being a typical male would just say try for both and have a nice 3 way relationship, but since this is not a porno I doubt that will happen. One of the two must give in to hear heart's desire or one of two things will occur.

1:Ryuuji will end up with Ami
2: Everyone will be lonely and miserable.

I really cannot forsee another outcome based on what we have seen thus far. I eagerly await the next episode.
Yea, its not hentai manga either.

Anyway, option one would be a very interesting twist. They have what 6 episodes? They might have time to make it happen...

Better than the second option at least which right now is what the anime feels like.
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Old 2009-02-18, 20:29   Link #464
Baka Ronin
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Indeed. I hope my way of seeing things doesn't get me flamed by too many shippers.
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Old 2009-02-19, 08:03   Link #465
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I'm all for a Ryuuji x Ami ending.
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Old 2009-02-19, 17:29   Link #466
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I would not complain if that happened, but I would feel bad for taiga. she would no longer have anyone to take care of her. I certainly am not a shipper. I enjoy the drama, the suspense of not knowing. *shrug*
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Old 2009-02-19, 20:11   Link #467
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good song, good episode. I guess all 3 of the girls are understanding
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Old 2009-02-19, 21:52   Link #468
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
I'm all for a Ryuuji x Ami ending.
That's obvious from the sig you're using

For me i think ryuji x taiga would be better one

u know they understand each other quite well and also ami is a selfish
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Old 2009-02-20, 01:52   Link #469
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and also ami is a selfish
but Taiga isn't?
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Old 2009-02-20, 02:53   Link #470
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I think everyone's demonstrated being selfish by now, though I will say that based upon the last few episodes including 19, Taiga has been among the most selfless and caring of the group.
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Old 2009-02-20, 04:39   Link #471
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I think everyone's demonstrated being selfish by now, though I will say that based upon the last few episodes including 19, Taiga has been among the most selfless and caring of the group.
More selfless than Minori? How so?

The moment she realised she liked Ryuuji she tried to claim him.

How long has it been since Minori realised she liked Ryuuji? Who besides the Student Council President has rejected the person they liked even when they were confessed to?
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Old 2009-02-20, 05:12   Link #472
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More selfless than Minori? How so?

The moment she realised she liked Ryuuji she tried to claim him.
Situational difference here. You really can't compare and she didn't run all the way down to school to get him. Maybe you should also consider the degree of how strong the feelings of each girl are for the guy.

Quote:
How long has it been since Minori realised she liked Ryuuji?
She started becoming interested, as a possibility back in October, but it was sometime during November that she began to seriously consider a relationship, so a little bit more than one month?

Quote:
Who besides the Student Council President has rejected the person they liked even when they were confessed to?
There's a major, major, difference here. The Student Council President did what she did for Kitamura's sake.

Minori is scared of hurting anyone (that's Taiga and Ryuuji, not just Taiga) and more comfortable with the status quo when everybody's happy and Christmas Eve didn't happen. That's what her new attitude is reflecting. Taiga's actions were and are really more about making Ryuuji happy. I mean, since this is something I've been feeling recently, but it feels like Taiga and Minori are really just superficial friends.

Last edited by roan; 2009-02-20 at 05:23.
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Old 2009-02-20, 05:33   Link #473
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Edit - Ok, I concede to being partially corrected.

Last edited by MeoTwister5; 2009-02-20 at 07:26.
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Old 2009-02-20, 06:18   Link #474
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A girl doesn't blush severely or curses under her breath after being trolled into staying behind with a guy they don't, at the very least, have strong feelings for. But, since this is episode 19's thread, I'll let it slide...
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Old 2009-02-20, 06:23   Link #475
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I would believe that Minori rejected him that night not because of some self sacrifice, but because she just doesn;t see him that way, and it was time for him to get over her and go to the girl that really cared for him: Taiga. She doesn't like Ryuuji romantically, and it's just going to hurt Ryuuji in the long run if he keeps hoping on the wrong woman. Minori understands that Taiga and Ryuuji's relationship is awkward enough as it is, and rejecting him should have been the way for him to just move on to greener pastures. Taiga assumes they like each other, and to me Minori does not, and thus does not really involve an emotional sacrifice on her part.


Then what was that whole, "Are your feelings of guilt gone?" moment when Ami asked Minori after the girls concluded the Taiga liked Kitamura.

Also, no emotional sacrifice on Minoris part, there's is so much I feel wrong with that statement...

People, Minoris hurting - hurting a lot. I cant believe quite a few people dont see that...or shrug it off as nothing major. Wasnt she the energetic one? The one that always had a smile? The one that faces everything head on?

Her total polar behavior is more than enough for me to know she's hurting quite deeply inside...enough said.
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Old 2009-02-20, 06:39   Link #476
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QFT.

Minori really likes Ryuji, and is giving up a lot by rejecting him. Saying that Minori hasn't sacrificed anything is like saying Ryuji isn't concerned about Taiga's well being.
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Old 2009-02-20, 07:10   Link #477
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Also has the question as to when Minori started having a crush on Ryuuji been settled somewhere?

My take is that she had since their freshmen year, but she tried to get rid of it when Ryuuji and Taiga became friends and rumors were flying around. It was rekindled in the summer outing and started bothering her again. That bothersome feeling became guilt when Ami made it known to Minori that she knows and, with what was learned after the fight, that there's a possibility that this crush could develop into something. Her answer to this guilt was to run away partly for Taiga's sake and partly because if the crush would develop she wouldn't know how to bear the guilt. What she witnessed in this episode convinced her that she was right, yet to finally kill these feelings for Ryuuji, now that she also had a clue on what he feels, was so hard that she hadn't really done it yet.
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Old 2009-02-20, 07:23   Link #478
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Also has the question as to when Minori started having a crush on Ryuuji been settled somewhere?

My take is that she had since their freshmen year, but she tried to get rid of it when Ryuuji and Taiga became friends and rumors were flying around.
It was rekindled in the summer outing and started bothering her again.
They never really talked before in their freshmen year. Why would she have a crush on him back then? It also contradicts the UFO story. She just never had any interest in romance until Ryuuji showed her the "ghost" at the summer outing.
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Old 2009-02-20, 07:25   Link #479
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Okay after rewatching a few segments from different episodes (I clearly have too much time on my hands ), I will concede to the fact that she did like him to some degree.

But I emphasize on DID. At least not completely in the past tense.

Quote:
Also has the question as to when Minori started having a crush on Ryuuji been settled somewhere?

My take is that she had since their freshmen year, but she tried to get rid of it when Ryuuji and Taiga became friends and rumors were flying around. It was rekindled in the summer outing and started bothering her again. That bothersome feeling became guilt when Ami made it known to Minori that she knows and, with what was learned after the fight, that there's a possibility that this crush could develop into something. Her answer to this guilt was to run away partly for Taiga's sake and partly because if the crush would develop she wouldn't know how to bear the guilt. What she witnessed in this episode convinced her that she was right, yet to finally kill these feelings for Ryuuji, now that she also had a clue on what he feels, was so hard that she hadn't really done it yet.
Pretty much the same as my conclusion. Salamat ha!

Even if she did, or does, like him, for me it doesn't go too much farther than upper limits of a platonic one. As this guy/girl said, it's most likely just a crush.

It's not as if she had already invested a large degree of time, emotion, feeling and the like towards Ryuuji. Taiga has done so much more of this, in a rather... unconventional way, and also probably subconsciously.

What I probably didn't clear up in my previous post was my assertion that Minori did not have as much an emotional involvement in a potential relationship as Taiga has, thus I don't believe she's doing a much greater and/or much more painful sacrifice than Taiga is attempting. It's still a sacrifice nonetheless, but not to the degree that Taiga is trying to cope with.

In this triangle Taiga still has much much more at stake, and thus much more to lose. Minori has yet to reach such a relationship level with Ryuuji that Taiga has, who has pretty much unknowingly committed a great deal of her life towards Ryuuji and vice versa.

My original purpose was to justify the belief that Taiga is in a worse situation than Minori ever was, and that to state that Minori is hurting more than Taiga is is a ludicrous idea. No other character has vested so much of themselves to him than she has, despite the fact that she might pretty well deny it, and the fact that she has pretty much done in unconsciously. Falling apart on that street like that is proof enough.
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Old 2009-02-20, 08:21   Link #480
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They never really talked before in their freshmen year.
As far as I know, the novel or the anime hasn't mentioned the extent of interaction between Ryuuji and Minori in their freshmen year. It doesn't mean there's none. Besides even if there's none just a mere sighting could start a crush. But I think there is. In the first chapter/episode the first conversation between the two involves Minori approaching Ryuuji and asking if he remembers her. They must've been introduced by Kitamura during softball.

Quote:
Why would she have a crush on him back then?
I don't know. It could be something illogical. The reason is irrelevant anyway.

What got me curious rather was why at the start, aside from Kitamura (because their parents were friends so they have long known each other) and Taiga (because she doesn't give a sh*t about his reputation), Minori could approach Ryuuji and not get intimidated or frightened. Was it because she's just sunshiny and nice with everyone? (Ok, I think this reason is valid and weakens my argument. Although, hasn't it been established that this genki appearance is just a mask? What was her reason for putting it on?)

Quote:
It also contradicts the UFO story. She just never had any interest in romance until Ryuuji showed her the "ghost" at the summer outing.
At that time the rumors were about Ryuuji and Taiga. Minori had backed down and concluded that romance was not for her.



@Meo,

Huh? I actually don't think we have the same conclusion. I'm even claiming Minorin has at least a crush on Ryuuji since first year. Well, we could agree on the degree of Minori's attraction, though. Anyway, I see you've edited your post.

Still, walang anuman And I still find your take on Taiga's personality a good one, and what I would also want to say, just that I lack the psychology expertise to put the right terms.

It's also good that you tried to do similar analysis on Minori. She's been a character neglected by most viewers, but, unfortunately, neglecting her would impact on the enjoyment and comprehension of the episodes in this season.
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