Yaoi vs Yuri Discussion!

[blue skies]

Originally Posted by Amex_Yohko

Because they hate other girls in anime and real-life except for fellow yaoi fangirls. Just look what their did to all female characters that usually in non-yaoi shows. They kill them all inside the world known as 'fanfiction'.

I have a question to all yaoi fangirls in this place "Can you all be a little bit more 'lesbian' ? Not turning yourself into real lesbians but they should stop become overly straight by holding hands with each other, spend more time with your won gender instead. We guys already did".

what

From what I gathered, you're saying most yaoi/slash fans don't like yuri or girl/girl, no? While I'm aware that there is a small portion of blithering fangirls who go "EEEEWW, TWO GIRLS??? ICKY!11!!!" at yuri, there are plenty of guys who love yuri and think yaoi is just sick. It definitely works both ways there, which is pretty stupid. But from what I've seen, many are fans of both genres. I'll watch/read both yaoi and yuri, if the story's good enough.

I know you're bringing fanfiction into this, but since when did fanfic have standards? You seem to think all of us slash random dudes together for no reason. And since when do we hate other girls in anime and real life? What reason would we have for that? You baffle me.

[SaintessHeart]

I am a huge fan of erotic yuri, but yaoi definitely makes me puke. I believe quite a number of male yuri fans think the same way as me, and yeah, it DOES work both ways.

[Fweakin]

Originally Posted by blue skies

what

From what I gathered, you're saying most yaoi/slash fans don't like yuri or girl/girl, no? While I'm aware that there is a small portion of blithering fangirls who go "EEEEWW, TWO GIRLS??? ICKY!11!!!" at yuri, there are plenty of guys who love yuri and think yaoi is just sick. It definitely works both ways there, which is pretty stupid. But from what I've seen, many are fans of both genres. I'll watch/read both yaoi and yuri, if the story's good enough.

I know you're bringing fanfiction into this, but since when did fanfic have standards? You seem to think all of us slash random dudes together for no reason. And since when do we hate other girls in anime and real life? What reason would we have for that? You baffle me.

Quoted for truth.

I'd certainly say, as has been mentioned previously, that the percentage of males whose "brains flinch", as Vexx so eloquently put it, outweighs the number of girls who do the same when fronted with their genders homosexual couples.

Just look at society. It is much more socially acceptable for a girl to be bisexual or sexually fluid than a guy. I think generally women are more accepting of their sexual fluidity than men, and as a result are generally more open to watching homosexual content. Emphasis on generally.

That said, there are WAAAAAY too many sterotypical fans of both genres. The "KyAa!!!1onetwo Kowaiiiiii desu" yaoi fangirls and the "I wish I was a lesbian" fanboys. There are evils on both sides.

[Falling_Snow]

I'm a straight girl and I like yuri way better than yaoi. Yuri is sweet and tender, while yaoi seems...more rough, I guess ? Plus I find anime girls more attractive than anime boys.

[darkchibi07]

Ohhh, musouka, you're too awesome!

Originally Posted by musouka

The problem was mainly that guys weren't interested in building an infrastructure like women were. If shoujo manga tends to explore things like the concept of gender, shounen manga tends to be very rigid in that respect. Guys, unlike girls, are not generally willing to read shoujo manga, which have stronger and larger female casts with which to play. It's only explosively popular shoujo series that catch their attention or the rare shounen or seinen series that is almost entirely girl-centric. But like I said, that's a relative rarity, and thus yuri is a relative rarity.

Though that's changing as lines blur.

I would have figured it comes down to the guys' interests (as much as it pains me ). Though by "explosively popular" shoujo series, you mean for example Marimite, right? I'm starting to see how that series combined what you're talking about building an infrastructure has pretty much acted like a growth spurt of yuri right it this moment.

Now what does it really take for an anime production company to be daring and adapt something that's yuri? I always have this belief if some company is willing to put some effort in adapting a certain title, and it ends up being a surprise hit, it'll reshape whatever connotations the fans have on yuri and thus getting evolved beyond these subtextual romantic friendship plots.

[hakisak]

I love Yaoi. I don't like Yuri...I have watched a show with a yuri couple. It's just nothing I will try to find. The idea of two girls just doesn't float my boat.

I am totally hetero, so I like looking at men, even if they are gay.

But if you like it, I love it...(for you)

I'd certainly say, as has been mentioned previously, that the percentage of males whose "brains flinch", as Vexx so eloquently put it, outweighs the number of girls who do the same when fronted with their genders homosexual couples.

Just look at society. It is much more socially acceptable for a girl to be bisexual or sexually fluid than a guy. I think generally women are more accepting of their sexual fluidity than men, and as a result are generally more open to watching homosexual content. Emphasis on generally.

That said, there are WAAAAAY too many sterotypical fans of both genres. The "KyAa!!!1onetwo Kowaiiiiii desu" yaoi fangirls and the "I wish I was a lesbian" fanboys. There are evils on both sides.

that is because there is no true pentration, so it's looked at as not really gay.

Most people think that gay women are women who have been hurt by guys so they seek out each other.

The men are just gay...

I don't agree, but it is a little truth do it...since I know a lot of chicks that went that way, for just that reason.

[kimichan09]

I dont like either Yuri OR Yaoi. I like Shoujo-Ai and Shounen-Ai. Its much more sweet and not about sex. ^-^ And it actually has a plot! *le gasp* Between the two Ai's though, I like Shoujo-Ai better. ^3^ I dont know why but I just think its more sweet~ Like animes like Gokujou Seitokia! It has the faint Shoujo-Ai in it! <3

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by kimichan09

I dont like either Yuri OR Yaoi. I like Shoujo-Ai and Shounen-Ai. Its much more sweet and not about sex. ^-^ And it actually has a plot! *le gasp* Between the two Ai's though, I like Shoujo-Ai better. ^3^ I dont know why but I just think its more sweet~ Like animes like Gokujou Seitokia! It has the faint Shoujo-Ai in it! <3

Shoujo-ai doesn't exist; things like Gokujou Seitokia are just moe.

[kimichan09]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Shoujo-ai doesn't exist; things like Gokujou Seitokia are just moe.

"Yuri can focus either on the sexual or the emotional aspects of the relationship, the latter sometimes being called shōjo-ai by western fans"

The EMOTIONAL ASPECTS of the relationship are called Shoujo-Ai by us western fans. >:
So it does exist. *nodnod*

The relationship between Kanade and Nanaho is definitely called Shoujo-Ai.

[hakisak]

Originally Posted by kimichan09

I dont like either Yuri OR Yaoi. I like Shoujo-Ai and Shounen-Ai. Its much more sweet and not about sex. ^-^ And it actually has a plot! *le gasp* Between the two Ai's though, I like Shoujo-Ai better. ^3^ I dont know why but I just think its more sweet~ Like animes like Gokujou Seitokia! It has the faint Shoujo-Ai in it! <3

All yaoi isn't about sex.(just comes with it ^_^) That is a big misconception...

I like either, I don't have to have sex in the manga or whatever...

I just don't see a difference...it's all stick and balls to me...

[0utf0xZer0]

Originally Posted by kimichan09

"Yuri can focus either on the sexual or the emotional aspects of the relationship, the latter sometimes being called shōjo-ai by western fans"

The EMOTIONAL ASPECTS of the relationship are called Shoujo-Ai by us western fans. >:
So it does exist. *nodnod*

Just a little warning for those of you who use that term:

"Another example: The term 少女愛 (shoujo ai) does exist in Japanese, but it’s used more often as a synonym for lolicon (”feelings of love towards young girls”) than for Girls’ Love (”lesbianism”). I kid you not. The first page of results on google for 少女愛 gives you nothing but lolicon-related articles. In English, we use it only for the latter meaning."

-taken from this slightly not safe for work blog post: http://www.darkmirage.com/2006/09/09...ntai-vs-ecchi/

[MidnightViper88]

Originally Posted by Fweakin

That said, there are WAAAAAY too many sterotypical fans of both genres. The..."I wish I was a lesbian" fanboys.

Wait, what?

The stereotypical generalization (Or for the most part, the truth) of straight guys usually follows through as guys merely wanting to be damn lucky spectators; I haven't heard of a single guy anywhere in my anecdotal experience that would be willing to give up their gender just to be in the middle of some girl-on-girl action...

Of course, that's where guys know the difference between a lesbian and a bi...But that's something else...

[Katydid]

I like yaoi. Yuri is alright, I don't mind it I guess, but its nothing I'd seek out. Two guys is just more my thing, I'm far more interested in that ^_^

[musouka]

Originally Posted by darkchibi07

I would have figured it comes down to the guys' interests (as much as it pains me ). Though by "explosively popular" shoujo series, you mean for example Marimite, right? I'm starting to see how that series combined what you're talking about building an infrastructure has pretty much acted like a growth spurt of yuri right it this moment.

Yes, and it also helps that the stigma against liking cute (read: "girlish") things is lessening due to the rise of ideas like "moe". This fosters an environment where male otaku can read MariMite easier. I mean, normal Japanese people are still going to look at you funny, but within the subculture it's pretty acceptable.

When you have men writing MariMite doujinshi, that is creating the basis for the infrastructure I'm talking about---guys will read those doujinshi, be more open to looking for more yuri in other series, and create their own scenarios based on that. Having yuri manga series aimed at guys so they can get a feel for the genre besides "fanservice in shounen manga" is another step in the right direction.

Originally Posted by darkchibi07

Now what does it really take for an anime production company to be daring and adapt something that's yuri? I always have this belief if some company is willing to put some effort in adapting a certain title, and it ends up being a surprise hit, it'll reshape whatever connotations the fans have on yuri and thus getting evolved beyond these subtextual romantic friendship plots.

Yuri is far far ahead of BL when it comes to "serious" anime adaptions, which is a slight source of bitterness for me. Yuri has, on its side, things like Oniisama e, and Utena. BL is regulated to a "comedy ghetto" when it comes to anime--where a series must either be a series of short OAVs (with zero budget) or bowdlerized to the point of camp comedy. That's why Junjou Romantica is actually pretty important, whether you like the series or not, because it's the first BL TV anime adaption I can think of that hasn't been written so that the comedy is more emphasized than the drama.

[musouka]

Oh, and as far as yuri-hating BL fangirls go, that's absolutely ridiculous. I can't remember the last time I've seen a BL fangirl actually say "ewwwww, yuri!"--the most I've seen is an admitted "not my thing", and this is even on places like Gaia or Aarinfantasy.

On the other hand, we see yuri fans in this very thread talking about how disgusting "yaoi" is. I'm not saying all yuri fans are like that, or even most of them are. My issue is with that somehow this is something only BL fangirls should be stigmatized for, when in reality it's a much bigger problem on behalf of "yuri-only" fans.

Also, as far as bashing characters goes, I've lost count how many times I've seen a Tomoyo/Sakura fan bash Saoran, or a Nanoha/Fate fan bash Yuuno. This is the sort of thing that happens among all types of fans and all types of pairings, so that's something to keep in mind when you feel the urge to generalize.

[darkchibi07]

Originally Posted by musouka

Yuri is far far ahead of BL when it comes to "serious" anime adaptions, which is a slight source of bitterness for me. Yuri has, on its side, things like Oniisama e, and Utena. BL is regulated to a "comedy ghetto" when it comes to anime--where a series must either be a series of short OAVs (with zero budget) or bowdlerized to the point of camp comedy. That's why Junjou Romantica is actually pretty important, whether you like the series or not, because it's the first BL TV anime adaption I can think of that hasn't been written so that the comedy is more emphasized than the drama.

If it make you feel better, I'm jealous of the fact that Junjou Romantica is making a killing in DVD sales, and that series pulls no punches in using yaoi to emphasize the drama (having some of the Higurashi staff working on it probably gave them the edge). Yeah, we have recent yuri series somewhat similar to that nature, but I heard Strawberry Panic bombed in DVD sales and Simoun (well, the entire premise and beginning episodes per say) probably weirded out the fans so not many fans bought them. I don't know how well Kashimashi sold though.

I guess I'm looking for a yuri title that'll get animated that does use yuri as the main driving force for the plot and be popular and profitable among the otaku (on the back of my mind, I'm putting Candy Boy on the fence until the series is completely done).

[Woodchips]

Originally Posted by MidnightViper88

Wait, what?

The stereotypical generalization (Or for the most part, the truth) of straight guys usually follows through as guys merely wanting to be damn lucky spectators; I haven't heard of a single guy anywhere in my anecdotal experience that would be willing to give up their gender just to be in the middle of some girl-on-girl action...

Uhh, might just be me, but I don't think that Fweakin actually literally meant that guys wanted to magically switch genders and then 'become lesbian'.

This is much the same in that not all yaoi-loving fangirls are illiterate, raving lunatics. My understanding is that that comment was more about the concept behind the stereotypical, fanboy/girl mentality than anything else.

Originally Posted by musouka

On the other hand, we see yuri fans in this very thread talking about how disgusting "yaoi" is. I'm not saying all yuri fans are like that, or even most of them are. My issue is with that somehow this is something only BL fangirls should be stigmatized for, when in reality it's a much bigger problem on behalf of "yuri-only" fans.

Agreed. I've seen more than a few yuri fans who are very much holier-than-thou when it comes to extolling the virtues of their genre, and then going on to rave about how 'revolting' yaoi is. I find it rather hypocritical that these are some of the same people who complain about others being too close-minded to enjoy yuri.

Ultimately there are going to be close-minded fangirl/boys of both genres who contribute negatively to the fanbase. Personally, I'm of the opinion if you don't like; don't watch it, and quit annoying the people who do.

[Oppius]

Its true that yaoi is many times bigger than yuri but it wasn't bothers me at all because hentai is many times bigger than yaoi. As a yuri fanboy myself I hate when yaoi fangirls labeled us as perverts when we enjoyed yuri and hentai but at same time they can enjoyed yaoi. Isn't that a double-standard?

For me yuri is a non-pornographic alternative to hentai. That's why yuri always smaller than yaoi and like it on that way. Many other yuri fanboys here complained that yuri is smaller than yaoi but isn't that a good thing? At least I'm not as stupid as those yaoi fangirls are. Of course I don't hate yaoi but I only hate yaoi fangirls alone.

Many yuri fanboys also claimed Maria-sama ga Miteru is a yuri but I don't think so. MariMite is a shoujo, not seinen like most yuri shows. While I love both Marimite and Strawberry Panic but those two shouldn't be alike. Strawberry Panic is a seinen show that exclusivly made for men and women should stay away from it like men on yaoi shows. I knew some women are actually found it interesting as much as men look on yaoi shows in same way.

I think homosexuality in fiction is "natural", regardless where they came from. Just look any novels written by Western authors which is lack of female characters and some of them may ends as gays because it is boring for the authors creating too many straight characters. As example Harry Potter has lots of gay undertones but since it was made for teenage boys, some of them never knew about it.

[Hs Vi Germania]

The men like yuri and the women yaoi. It was always that like^^

[White Manju Bun]

Originally Posted by Hs Vi Germania

The men like yuri and the women yaoi. It was always that like^^

Not true, as stated in this thread there have been lots of girls saying that like yuri. I will say its more likely for a girl to like yuri then a guy to like yaoi but some straight guys dont mind the subtle gestures implied BL can give off.

Originally Posted by Falling Snow

while yaoi seems...more rough, I guess ?

Yaoi can be rough but Ive read a lot of BL that sex isnt even in it but the touching scenes are the soft part. Not all yaoi is sex, but from what Ive seen I guess it could be more rough then yuri just cuz of whats involved in it.