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Old 2009-02-17, 03:27   Link #1081
Kaisos Erranon
Homo Ludens
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirWence View Post
Like I was being forced to make choices I wouldn't ,

That's because you're not Shirou?

Shirou is not just the player character. He's Shirou. He's his own damned character and will do whatever the hell he pleases.


It pisses me off when VN players complain when their player avatars do what they want rather then what the player wants. I think that's pretty damned interesting, and it allows them to extend themselves beyond just being the protagonist.

The trick is being able to see their point of view rather than just your own.
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Old 2009-02-17, 06:03   Link #1082
Keroko
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I dislike most of Heavens Feel mostly because the greater part of the story is 'pity poor Sakura'

Now I know people fall for this kind of stuff, but to be honest, I didn't. It's personal preference, but by the time of the final battle, I felt exactly the way Rin worded it.

"---------Oh. What of it?"

... Which is also why I think the last part > the rest of Heavens Feel route. Because it's finally time to put that deranged mind of hers back in place. While I felt the majority of the Heavens Feel route to be a drag, everything after Sakura going evil had me leaning forward with a thumping heart and hand tapping the 'next' key.

I also dislike how Heavens Feel emphasized the 'Shirou is a jackass when it comes to girls and sex' more then any other route. Of course, the fact that it has 3 ero scenes did help in that regard.
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Old 2009-02-17, 06:22   Link #1083
SirWence
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
That's because you're not Shirou?

Shirou is not just the player character. He's Shirou. He's his own damned character and will do whatever the hell he pleases.


It pisses me off when VN players complain when their player avatars do what they want rather then what the player wants. I think that's pretty damned interesting, and it allows them to extend themselves beyond just being the protagonist.

The trick is being able to see their point of view rather than just your own.
Hmm No. I gave the reasons I disliked it. None of which are shown here. I know very much so I am not Shirou . By 'forced choices' I meant something even Shirou from Fate and UBW would never do I would never do and most anyone would never do. It was a FORCED plot , I agree with the poster above me. By the time I had to hear Sakura complain even more in that battle of sisters , of why I need to pity her more, I was simply much the same "Oh.. so your point?" But you can enjoy Heavens feel or not. I felt it a contrived scenario that was.. tedious to get through.. and I went through the 'sex' scenes as fast as possible in HF . Actually I just worked to finish it to be done with it , as fast as possible. I still rate it of the highest overall Visual Novels simply because of the Fate and UBW scenarios. BUt I see no more reason to debate further as to why I personally * disliked the HF scenario
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Old 2009-02-17, 07:04   Link #1084
Keroko
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Here's something I just realized running through HF again for the Tiger Stamps, but what was the cause for True Assassin to be born? In neither Fate nor UBW he appears, and yet in Heavens Feel he just... pops out of nowhere. What was the factor that gave birth to him?
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Old 2009-02-17, 11:12   Link #1085
SirWence
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Here's something I just realized running through HF again for the Tiger Stamps, but what was the cause for True Assassin to be born? In neither Fate nor UBW he appears, and yet in Heavens Feel he just... pops out of nowhere. What was the factor that gave birth to him?
A very contrived plot.. I believe that is the factor that gives birth to him lol
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Old 2009-02-17, 14:04   Link #1086
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirWence View Post
A very contrived plot.. I believe that is the factor that gives birth to him lol
Stop that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Here's something I just realized running through HF again for the Tiger Stamps, but what was the cause for True Assassin to be born? In neither Fate nor UBW he appears, and yet in Heavens Feel he just... pops out of nowhere. What was the factor that gave birth to him?
Using the "fake" Assassin's body as a catalyst to summon him? There's an interlude early on about it.
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Old 2009-02-17, 14:12   Link #1087
Keroko
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I realize how he came into this world, but not the why. Between Fate and UBW, there are two different factors that cause the change in storyline. In Fate, Archer is injured, in UBW, he isn't. That's the factor that caused the divergent storyline. However, I see don't see -or rather I haven't found- a factor that lead to Hassan's birth. Why was he not born in the other two scenarios? What led to his birth happening in Heavens Feel?
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Old 2009-02-17, 15:08   Link #1088
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
I realize how he came into this world, but not the why. Between Fate and UBW, there are two different factors that cause the change in storyline. In Fate, Archer is injured, in UBW, he isn't. That's the factor that caused the divergent storyline. However, I see don't see -or rather I haven't found- a factor that lead to Hassan's birth. Why was he not born in the other two scenarios? What led to his birth happening in Heavens Feel?
It might have had something to do with Sakura's furthered interaction with Shirou and Zouken's meeting with him.

That's all that changed between Fate and HF, so that must've had something to do with it.
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Old 2009-02-17, 17:23   Link #1089
Jaden
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Oh people are discussing F/SN here, nice.

How True Assassin was summoned is indeed a mystery, one could even say a plothole. I think it's quite clear Zouken is the cause, because in HF he decides to join the war, in Fate and UBW he's just rotting in his cellar. Zouken then becomes True Assassin's master, so it's fair to assume Zouken summoned True Assassin.

It's plothole-ish because in a way Zouken outperforms Caster in magecraft. You could say that it is possible because of the "Hassan rule" It's programmed in the grail that the assassin class servant is to be one of the Hassans. After all, they are the greatest assassins without competition, in the original meaning of the word. So Zouken's summoning ritual is able to undo Caster's summoning of the fake Assassin, which relied on loopholes, because he's backed up by the grail.

Well that's how I convinced myself anyways.
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Old 2009-02-22, 06:51   Link #1090
Keroko
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Hmm, so the appearance of True Assassin can be explained as being summoned by Zouken.

This solves one plothole... but creates another. Why didn't Zouken do this in the other two routes?

In other news... though I suppose the people here are probably already aware of it, Amukunau from Beast Lair, who is translating Fate/Hollow Ataraxia has started a blog to keep himself motivated. Being that it's only a couple of days old, there's not much in the way of news yet, but if you're looking for a place to keep updated on the translation of Fate/Hollow Ataraxia, this is the best the place.
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Old 2009-02-22, 07:54   Link #1091
Nosauz
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I think if you follow Jayden's thinking then its the heavy contact that shiro has with Sakura that brings Zoken to the forefront since he was alive during the 4th holy grail war. But even then I always felt the Zoken/Sakura thing was a little weak, I was hoping in heaven's feel that sakura and Rin would develop more since their lives as sisters play a much more important role where as in UBW, the focus is more of Shiro and rin interactions, and shiro and archer interactions.
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Old 2009-02-22, 08:33   Link #1092
Keroko
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Well, I understand why route-wise Zoken came to the forefront, however storywise it is something I don't understand. Why would Zouken's centuries old ambitions change just because Shirou didn't talk to Sakura as much? It's a bit of a plothole in that regard...
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Old 2009-02-22, 18:55   Link #1093
Kaisos Erranon
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Zoken never intended to enter the 5th Grail War.

However, as a couple of the Interludes explain, Sakura decides to enter the war after hearing that Rin is also a competitor, and perhaps figures that she might also take Shirou away.

Zoken thus decides to enter the war himself, alongside Sakura.


That's what I got out of it, anyway.
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Old 2009-02-22, 21:32   Link #1094
aldw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Zoken never intended to enter the 5th Grail War.

However, as a couple of the Interludes explain, Sakura decides to enter the war after hearing that Rin is also a competitor, and perhaps figures that she might also take Shirou away.

Zoken thus decides to enter the war himself, alongside Sakura.


That's what I got out of it, anyway.
That is an interesting idea, although I do think that it's likely to be more complicated than that.
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Old 2009-02-23, 02:46   Link #1095
Kaisos Erranon
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That is an interesting idea, although I do think that it's likely to be more complicated than that.
Well, what's your explanation?
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Old 2009-02-23, 12:41   Link #1096
scoopnokes
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I dont' know if anyone has asked this, but is there a translation for this game for the non-literate of japanese people.
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Old 2009-02-23, 13:29   Link #1097
rastilin
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I dont' know if anyone has asked this, but is there a translation for this game for the non-literate of japanese people.
Many, many people have asked this; many times before. And the answer is yes.
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Old 2009-02-23, 14:40   Link #1098
DarkHonour
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Too bad the translation for fate/hollow ataraxia won't be out for a long time. =P
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Old 2009-02-23, 14:42   Link #1099
Keroko
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*shrug* Well, Fate/Stay Night took us several years, if we could wait for that, waiting for this shouldn't be that hard. We know that the translator is putting in effort to get this translated. Of course, a lack of percentages does make one wonder, but at the same time, since we don't know how far he is, he could be farther then we think.
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Old 2009-02-23, 17:47   Link #1100
aldw
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Well, what's your explanation?
Rather not say, cause it can go both ways.
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