AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Clannad

Notices

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 2009-03-04, 23:18   Link #21
Nosauz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Age: 25
well the difference with planetarian and tomoyo after is that tomoyo after clashes with what is canon in clannad, and to a fan who felt tomoyo after was not as great of a work as clannad was, having the question of canon come up is a little frustrationg, its like saying turkey is less like turkey than chicken. if that made any sense.
Nosauz is offline  
Old 2009-03-04, 23:37   Link #22
Leo_Otaku
俺たちはリトルバスターズ!
 
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Canada/ Winterpeg
Age: 28
Send a message via AIM to Leo_Otaku Send a message via MSN to Leo_Otaku
I can see the one for planetarian but for Tomoyo After it should be OVA's if anything. If they do Planetarian would they trya nd do the other routes on the drama CDs?
Leo_Otaku is offline  
Old 2009-03-05, 01:16   Link #23
Kaisos Erranon
Homo Ludens
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosauz View Post
wasn't this basically a "we know everybody didn't love jun maeda's script so those that want to make a game not featuring nagisa do it" kind thing? I mean for me at least I just felt it was probably doujinshi quality, compared to what the original clannad team did, but then again I could be totally wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosauz View Post
well the difference with planetarian and tomoyo after is that tomoyo after clashes with what is canon in clannad, and to a fan who felt tomoyo after was not as great of a work as clannad was, having the question of canon come up is a little frustrationg, its like saying turkey is less like turkey than chicken. if that made any sense.
Uh. Maeda DID write Tomoyo After.

I did always feel it was sort of a "Take That!" to people who didn't like the Nagisa scenario, given TA's ending, though...

Quote:
Originally Posted by panzerfan View Post
Well, Planetarian was also not out of the hands of Maeda, so in itself Tomoyo After isn't a unique exception. (Then again, that might have contributed to Planetarian being the most depressing work by Key...)
From what I've heard of both TA and Planetarian... TA sounds much more depressing.

Still gotta play Planetarian though. How long is the game, anyway?
__________________
Kaisos Erranon is offline  
Old 2009-03-05, 01:22   Link #24
Kana Futayo
is not amused
*Graphic Designer
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Naval Base
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Still gotta play Planetarian though. How long is the game, anyway?
It's been a year since I last played planetarian. I think it took me 4 hours to finish the whole novel.
__________________
Kana Futayo is offline  
Old 2009-03-05, 01:27   Link #25
Kaisos Erranon
Homo Ludens
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 25
Ha. I should probably burn an afternoon on it then.
__________________
Kaisos Erranon is offline  
Old 2009-03-05, 01:31   Link #26
houkoholic
seiyuu maniac
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosauz View Post
wasn't this basically a "we know everybody didn't love jun maeda's script so those that want to make a game not featuring nagisa do it" kind thing? I mean for me at least I just felt it was probably doujinshi quality, compared to what the original clannad team did, but then again I could be totally wrong.
No it's the other way around. Jun Maeda wanted to write something that he wants to write instead of what the company wanted ie so he doesn't have to take sales and fan preference into consideration, and after Clannad he ask the boss and got the go ahead and hence wrote Tomoyo After. And Tomoyo After is no way "doujinshi quality", it is basically as long as the Clannad After Story, and combined with the Tomoyo arc from Clannad forms just as complete of a story about life (though a completely opposite take on it) as Nagisa's route in Clannad.

Tomoyo After is Maeda Jun's rawest emotional piece of work to date. If you really want to see how his brain ticks, that's the game to play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon
I did always feel it was sort of a "Take That!" to people who didn't like the Nagisa scenario, given TA's ending, though...
No, compared with Tomoyo After that's just commercial interest rearing its ugly head in Clannad. They requested Maeda Jun to write a fairly standard anime-type mircale happy ending to Clannad, which apparently Maeda Jun never took a particular liking to - he had expressed his distaste in the "somehow through lots of hardwork everything works out in the end" type of cheap miricales in the stories. TA is what he really feels that people should learn and he was able to express it without the restrictions. There's no "reaction" motivation in TA on how Clannad was received.

It's really trivialising the message in TA if all you can see is the "depressing" part, there's some serious lessons in life to be learnt in TA, more so than Clannad. Clannad still has too many elements of escaptist fantasy in it like previous Key work, whereas TA toss them out the window. In terms otf maturity and meaning I rate TA over Clannad anyday.
__________________
My twitter - not really seiyuu-centred so follow at your own risk
Celebrities I've talked to in person
Mizuki Nana, Chiba Saeko, Shimizu Ai, Shimokawa Mikuni, Chihara Minori, Tamura Yukari, Nakahara Mai, Sakai Kanako

Last edited by houkoholic; 2009-03-05 at 01:42.
houkoholic is offline  
Old 2009-03-05, 01:32   Link #27
Nosauz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Uh. Maeda DID write Tomoyo After.

I did always feel it was sort of a "Take That!" to people who didn't like the Nagisa scenario, given TA's ending, though...
well all I know is that the team that did work on clannad was not there to work on ta, that's just the impression I got. So my point would be how would put in terms of canon in the clannad world. k thanks, I got it flipped around. yea i'll definitely check this out after I clear some of the games I've started already.
Nosauz is offline  
Old 2009-03-05, 01:33   Link #28
Ithekro
Space Battlecarrier
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 37
I understand Planetarian is a sadder story than AIR. But it is a Key product. Sad is expected.

As for Tomoyo After...as a movie...I don't know. It won't exactly be Clannad, but then it really isn't...it is a seperate game entirely.
Also don't Tomoyo and Tomoya get rather um physical in TA?
__________________
Dessler Soto, Banzai!
Ithekro is offline  
Old 2009-03-05, 01:38   Link #29
-Sho-
~Omedet˘~
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Somewhere between heaven and hell !
So it will be like the oav with Tomoya x Tomoyo except it will last in 60 minutes right .
-Sho- is offline  
Old 2009-03-05, 01:45   Link #30
Kaisos Erranon
Homo Ludens
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by houkoholic View Post
Tomoyo After is Maeda Jun's rawest emotional piece of work to date. If you really want to see how his brain ticks, that's the game to play.
...I still think it really feels like a troll ending.

Sure it's sad and emotional and all, but it just feels so pointless and MEAN.

Sort of saying "Here's what happens when he DOESN'T pick Nagisa. Now stop bitching."

...Maybe we can finally get a female lead that no one complains about with Rin Natsume...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
I understand Planetarian is a sadder story than AIR. But it is a Key product. Sad is expected.
About the only thing that's amusing is that Daisuke Ono is the male lead. AGAIN.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Also don't Tomoyo and Tomoya get rather um physical in TA?
Be glad it's a movie then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by houkoholic View Post
It's really trivialising the message in TA if all you can see is the "depressing" part, there's some serious lessons in life to be learnt in TA, more so than Clannad. Clannad still has too many elements of escaptist fantasy in it like previous Key work, whereas TA toss them out the window. In terms otf maturity and meaning I rate TA over Clannad anyday.
Spoiler for TA:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosauz View Post
well all I know is that the team that did work on clannad was not there to work on ta, that's just the impression I got. So my point would be how would put in terms of canon in the clannad world. k thanks, I got it flipped around. yea i'll definitely check this out after I clear some of the games I've started already.
Clannad operates on parallel universes and stuff like that. There's no true 'canon'.
__________________
Kaisos Erranon is offline  
Old 2009-03-05, 01:48   Link #31
Ithekro
Space Battlecarrier
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 37
I do hope they come up with another voice for the main male character in "Little Busters"...otherwise the voice actress is going to be talking to herself alot.
__________________
Dessler Soto, Banzai!
Ithekro is offline  
Old 2009-03-05, 01:51   Link #32
Kaisos Erranon
Homo Ludens
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by houkoholic View Post
They requested Maeda Jun to write a fairly standard anime-type mircale happy ending to Clannad, which apparently Maeda Jun never took a particular liking to - he had expressed his distaste in the "somehow through lots of hardwork everything works out in the end" type of cheap miricales in the stories.
"Hard Work and Guts!"

That's how things work in anime.

Real life is somewhere in between... no EPIC TRAGEDIES but no DEUS EX either.

That said, I vastly prefer happy endings in my fiction. Personal preference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
I do hope they come up with another voice for the main male character in "Little Busters"...otherwise the voice actress is going to be talking to herself alot.
Jun Fukuyama wouldn't be a bad Riki, using his Shouta voice.

I can imagine them recasting both Rin and Riki, actually...
__________________
Kaisos Erranon is offline  
Old 2009-03-05, 02:01   Link #33
houkoholic
seiyuu maniac
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
...I still think it really feels like a troll ending.

Sure it's sad and emotional and all, but it just feels so pointless and MEAN.

Sort of saying "Here's what happens when he DOESN'T pick Nagisa. Now stop bitching."
This is what I mean by trivialising the message. You've basically fallen into the same trap that the "if I don't get everything I worked for than it is pointless" group had fallen to. That is preciously the message that Maeda Jun wants to shatter in TA as life is full of such instances where you've tried you best and gets nothing in return, as you get older and older in real life, you'll be continously bombarded with such disappointments in life, and learning to pick yourself up from these disappointments is central to the theme in TA.

The message is in the pathway leading to the end, just because something bad happens it doesn't negates the good times and experiences that happens during. Plus it says a lot about how life *really* works, the point, as pointed out by Maeda Jun is to get people to face reality more and be less engrossed in escaptist fantasy (do take into consideration that anime/manga/game escaptist is quite a heavy social problem in Japan, so Maeda Jun is trying to be a bit more responsible here too). Be able to pick youself up again after being defeated - that's the beauty of the message in TA.
__________________
My twitter - not really seiyuu-centred so follow at your own risk
Celebrities I've talked to in person
Mizuki Nana, Chiba Saeko, Shimizu Ai, Shimokawa Mikuni, Chihara Minori, Tamura Yukari, Nakahara Mai, Sakai Kanako

Last edited by houkoholic; 2009-03-05 at 02:13.
houkoholic is offline  
Old 2009-03-05, 02:20   Link #34
Kaisos Erranon
Homo Ludens
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by houkoholic View Post
This is what I mean by trivialising the message. You've basically fallen into the same trap that the "if I don't get everything I worked for than it is pointless" group had fallen to. That is preciously the message that Maeda Jun wants to shatter in TA as life is full of such instances where you've tried you best and gets nothing in return, as you get older and older in real life, you'll be continously bombarded with such disappointments in life, and learning to pick yourself up from these disappointments is central to the theme in TA.
The things that happen in TA do not normally happen in real life.

I happen to be an idealist, despite my love of angsty and cynical fiction, and I believe that life isn't as bad as more serious works make it out to be.

Life is more neutral than EVERYTHING BAD HAPPENS AT ONCE FOR NO REAL REASON.

Quote:
Originally Posted by houkoholic View Post
The message is in the pathway leading to the end, just because something bad happens it doesn't negates the good times and experiences that happens during. Plus it says a lot about how life *really* works, the point, as pointed out by Maeda Jun is to get people to face reality more and be less engrossed in escaptist fantasy (do take into consideration that anime/manga/game escaptist is quite a heavy social problem in Japan, so Maeda Jun is trying to be a bit more responsible here too). Be able to pick youself up again after being defeated - that's the beauty of the message in TA.
I doubt you're able to pick yourself up and enjoy the experiences in life when
Spoiler for TA:


Some things I say may be inaccurate, mainly because I haven't played TA and have no wish to, but...

Also, as I have stated, life does not really work that way either. Life is full of happy AND sad things, and you CAN be rewarded for lots of hard work, although luck and talent have an equal share in success.
__________________
Kaisos Erranon is offline  
Old 2009-03-05, 02:36   Link #35
houkoholic
seiyuu maniac
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
T

I doubt you're able to pick yourself up and enjoy the experiences in life when
Spoiler for TA:


Some things I say may be inaccurate, mainly because I haven't played TA and have no wish to, but...

Also, as I have stated, life does not really work that way either. Life is full of happy AND sad things, and you CAN be rewarded for lots of hard work, although luck and talent have an equal share in success.
You've missed the point completely. You really should refrain from making such comments when you haven't played the game.

Spoiler:


Also there were happy things in TA as well, and epic trageties does happen in real life (a sudden passing away of a love one is FAR from unrealistic, though the incident causing it might be, as in the case of entertainment), you really shouldn't make assumptions when you haven't played the game.

Quote:
Also, as I have stated, life does not really work that way either. Life is full of happy AND sad things, and you CAN be rewarded for lots of hard work, although luck and talent have an equal share in success.
It most certainly does. There are WAY more things in life where you have no control over than there are things which you can. For example tell that to the millions of honest hardworking people whom had lost jobs and money due to the current economic crisis.

Also of course you *can* be rewarded for hardwork, *can* being the modifier. TA doesn't exclude that possibility (in fact it includes it in many ways too). However it is not you WILL MOST DEFINITELY be rewarded for hardwork, which is what a lot of entertainment work does (even in Clannad). What TA does is present the other scenario when things don't go "right".
__________________
My twitter - not really seiyuu-centred so follow at your own risk
Celebrities I've talked to in person
Mizuki Nana, Chiba Saeko, Shimizu Ai, Shimokawa Mikuni, Chihara Minori, Tamura Yukari, Nakahara Mai, Sakai Kanako

Last edited by houkoholic; 2009-03-05 at 02:46.
houkoholic is offline  
Old 2009-03-05, 02:48   Link #36
Ithekro
Space Battlecarrier
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 37
Interesting debate...considering it is a rumor...at best right now.

A 30 minute ova/movie would be too short to do any of the routes aside from the main one I'm guessing. So basically the Toei "Clannad" treatment, just with "Tomoyo After" instead?
__________________
Dessler Soto, Banzai!
Ithekro is offline  
Old 2009-03-05, 03:10   Link #37
Kaisos Erranon
Homo Ludens
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by houkoholic View Post
*snip*
We're both clearly biased, so I see no point in continuing.

You're more right than I am anyway.
__________________
Kaisos Erranon is offline  
Old 2009-03-05, 03:43   Link #38
Spectacular_Insanity
Ha ha ha ha ha...
*Graphic Designer
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Right behind you.
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosauz View Post
why tomoya after?? 60 minutes is not even enough sigh... give some of the other heroines a chance but thats just my 2 cents
Nice idea, but they aren't the main characters, tyvm.

Tha being said, I hope it gets subbed. I would love to watch it, and I too hope they keep the same voice actor. He's amazing.
__________________
Spectacular_Insanity is offline  
Old 2009-03-05, 04:31   Link #39
Littm
ちょうど楽しみなさい
*IT Support
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Somewhere...
Age: 26
30 minutes for Planetarian can be enough, but 60 for Tomoyo After isn't really. Anyway it's good to hear about an animation versions if this rumour is true.

Some offtopic: I still haven't played only one their VN - Little Busters. How long is EX version for all routes ? You can compare it to Clannad.
Littm is offline  
Old 2009-03-05, 04:39   Link #40
panzerfan
Name means little...
*Graphic Designer
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: A town that has been showered by snow...
Age: 29
Well, TA to me wasn't nearly as crippling as Planetarian due to the actual scope of the discussion regarding humanity through the piece. Post-apocalyptic world is not uncommon in fiction, but by nuclear holocaust makes Planetarian slightly taboo to the Japanese mind. Whereas TA feels like a more constrained piece of interpersonal malodrama focused on Tomoya and Tomoyo, Planetarian speaks volume on the very contradiction of beauty and the unsightly nature to humanity.

I do think that Tomoyo After should be a mini-series in its own right instead of 60 minute length too. I wonder if KyoAni is only going to focus on the principal path then...

Looking back on why Planetarian made more impression to me, the (lack of) silver lining from a world already ablazed and people made broken, coupled with a bitter aftertaste of space-age naivetÚ, followed with the definition of humanity itself and completed with that neverending dream of reaching for the stars sealed the deal for me. (why does it feel as if I am writing about Fallout 3...?)
__________________

It would be enough for the depressing things in life to only exist in reality.
It is because that I think the birth of a story... is from people dreaming of a happy ending. ~Misaka Shiori


panzerfan is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:57.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.