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Old 2008-08-22, 10:54   Link #21
Sokar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Royal_Devil View Post
So in other words the 300 movie is the way it is because of the source material. If so, I don't see how Synder can be faulted except maybe for too much slow mo and that who story with the queen
I think most people fault Synder for his artistic choices, aka slow-motion and CG on steroids.
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Old 2008-08-22, 11:29   Link #22
Royal_Devil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sokar View Post
I think most people fault Synder for his artistic choices, aka slow-motion and CG on steroids.
No, I've heard plenty of people complain about 300's shallow characters, racist overtones, and general political incorrectness and worry about Watchmen being dumbed down as much. I can't help but ask, did you expect him to add stuff to 300 to not make it shallow like the comic?
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Old 2008-08-22, 14:07   Link #23
james0246
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Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
... What? ಠ_ಠ
Since you are so adamant . The character story arcs are still the same (the people that live, will still live, and the people who die will still die). Rather, Synder will have different circumstances that lead up to the character ending. So, possibly instead of a
Spoiler for big giganormous spoiler don't read:
something else is supposed to happen, just no one is sure what exactly.

Here is an article that deals with the inconclusive nature of the ending: [edit : don't read this either if you don't want to be accidentally spoiled] The Never Ending Story.

edit: lol, Hunter edited my post. I think that the edited portions were not that spoilerish, since they represent the events that make up the ending, but not the actual ending. But, if Hunter feels that these events are too spolierific, then I will abide by his descion.

Last edited by james0246; 2008-08-22 at 14:44.
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Old 2008-08-22, 15:35   Link #24
Sokar
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Originally Posted by Royal_Devil View Post
No, I've heard plenty of people complain about 300's shallow characters, racist overtones, and general political incorrectness and worry about Watchmen being dumbed down as much. I can't help but ask, did you expect him to add stuff to 300 to not make it shallow like the comic?
Then the people you heard haven't read the comics. In the comic book fandom most of the complaints about shallow characters and racist overtones fall squarely on Frank Miller, and it's been discussed for years. The only complaints I've heard on Synder regarding the material is the rape of the queen storyline, which was not in the source material. Synder definitely could have added stuff to 300 to give it more depth, but instead he added stuff to make it even more misogynstic, so yeah, he could be faulted for that. In the comic book fandom, aka people who actually read the comic book, most of the fault falls on Frank Miller. Alan Moore even called out Miller on the pedophile line.
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Old 2008-08-27, 01:14   Link #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sokar View Post
Then the people you heard haven't read the comics. In the comic book fandom most of the complaints about shallow characters and racist overtones fall squarely on Frank Miller, and it's been discussed for years. The only complaints I've heard on Synder regarding the material is the rape of the queen storyline, which was not in the source material. Synder definitely could have added stuff to 300 to give it more depth, but instead he added stuff to make it even more misogynstic, so yeah, he could be faulted for that. In the comic book fandom, aka people who actually read the comic book, most of the fault falls on Frank Miller. Alan Moore even called out Miller on the pedophile line.
I hated that little side story he added. It really detracted from the rest of the movie, though I suppose the original plot was a bit too straightforwards. My girlfriend actually liked it, so... uh, yay for strong female characters?

Anyways, I have a feeling that the reason for the plot change has a lot to do with 9/11.

Spoiler:
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Old 2008-08-27, 08:21   Link #26
Anh_Minh
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Old 2008-08-27, 12:16   Link #27
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Spoiler for ending:
Spoiler for ending:
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Old 2008-08-27, 15:05   Link #28
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Old 2008-08-30, 02:40   Link #29
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So I'm re-reading the graphic novel, because dammit I felt like I had to, and I had a thought; How do you think this story is going to be woven together?
Spoiler for Just in case...:
To be perfectly honest, I'm starting to get a little concerned about how this is all going to work out. I have faith that Snyder can do a good job (or, at least an adequate job), I just wonder if good will be good enough, or if he's maybe bitten off a little more than he can chew with this one.
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Old 2008-08-30, 02:49   Link #30
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Originally Posted by Quzor View Post
So I'm re-reading the graphic novel, because dammit I felt like I had to, and I had a thought; How do you think this story is going to be woven together?
Spoiler for Just in case...:
To be perfectly honest, I'm starting to get a little concerned about how this is all going to work out. I have faith that Snyder can do a good job (or, at least an adequate job), I just wonder if good will be good enough, or if he's maybe bitten off a little more than he can chew with this one.
Spoiler for some spoilers I guess:
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Old 2009-03-06, 10:49   Link #31
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You know, I've never been much of a fan of Alan Moore's writing. They are definitely very engaging, cerebral stuff, but when it comes to comics and graphic novels, I much prefer Neil Gaiman's The Sandman. The reason I'm admitting this is because I had only just finished reading The Watchmen graphic novel about a week ago, prior to watching the movie today.

I enjoyed the comic. I can see why it stands out as a landmark in the medium. I hated its ending, though. I felt it was stupid and overly outlandish (but ironically, it befits the superhero genre, which is all about over-the-top hype). I was also very underwhelmed by Dr Manhattan's "leap of logic" with regard to thermodynamic miracles. But, as Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons had explained elsewhere, their original intention was not so much to create a great story, as it was to highlight the strengths of the graphic novel as a platform for complex storytelling.

If that's the case, then they very clearly succeeded. Heck, they practically invented the medium, going by what I've read.

Which brings me to the movie. It's a movie that fans of the comic would love, because it stays largely faithful to its source material, even if it does take major liberties with its original ending (for the better, in my opinion, but others would no doubt disagree).

It's also a film that demonstrates how staying faithful to a literary source material is a sure way to make a bad movie. On its own, The Watchmen fails to lift its audience the same way that The Dark Knight did, for example. The raw energy present in the comic-book panels has not been translated with the same intensity onto the silver screen, because what works on paper doesn't quite work so well on celluloid.

I'm afraid Alan Moore was right: The Watchmen, as it was originally conceived, is a story that could have been told only in graphic-novel form. In the comic, Moore made clever use of speech-and-panel juxtapositions to create deliciously diabolical satire. He intertwined the comic with prose essays and fictitious interviews to fill in the characters' background stories, and thus added impressive heft to the story.

None of that depth is present in the film. Overall, it just felt so dry, whereas the comic electrified my mind with possibilities. Worse, the movie had several gaps which only those who have read the graphic novel would notice and thus fill in automatically — viewers with no such experience would simply be left clueless.

The Watchmen is a fanboy movie made for fellow fanboys. For the rest of the audience, however, it's just another film about looney people who like to wear their underwear on the outside.

Last edited by TinyRedLeaf; 2009-03-06 at 10:59.
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Old 2009-03-06, 11:12   Link #32
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Just got back from a party after watching the film last night. My main reaction...the film is very similar to the OVAs made in Japan whose sole function is to encourage the watcher to go buy the Manga (which is some what similar to what Tiny above me said).

I'll post more later, but for now, I am going to bed .
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Old 2009-03-06, 19:01   Link #33
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I own 2 paperback copies (I wore one out reading it so much over the years) and two ABSOLUTE WATCHMEN hardcovers one to read and the other to be kept as a collectors item. I first read the Watchmen back in the early 90s during the 2nd comic book crash when the medium really sucked ass due to reccomendation of the owner whom at the time was losing his shop so he gave me all his issues for free. And it literally blew my mind and has been since then.

With that said, the movie was cool, some scenes I thought would of worked way better linked together as the book had them instead of all jumbled around. And I did hate how some of the film was force fed to you.

I would of enjoyed it immensely despite the few nitpicks and "why'd they changed THAT?" if the ending wasn't a complete and utter disappointment. The awe, the badassiness, and the nagging moral question at the end were pretty much.. non-existent. In the comics the main "villian" was pretty much borderline a Bond villian, but the end was what made you question their motives and removed that Bond villian motif. While in the movie...... total Bond villian from start to finish.

Supposedly the "true" comic ending is intact on the DVD release and I will buy it ONLY if that's true.

Also wanted to add they kept referring themselves in the movie as the group "The Watchmen" rather then the idea and that changed the context of the film greatly for me.

Bottomline, The Watchmen would of worked better as a mini-series then a standalone movie. Our atleast 2 standalone movies, rather then 1.
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Old 2009-03-06, 19:52   Link #34
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Lets not go on comparing the awesomeness of Sandman and Watchmen. But i am going to see the movie so i'll tell you how good it is in about 3 hours
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Old 2009-03-06, 20:10   Link #35
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went to midnight showing; for ending/twist

Spoiler for difference:
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Old 2009-03-06, 20:45   Link #36
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Lets not go on comparing the awesomeness of Sandman and Watchmen. But i am going to see the movie so i'll tell you how good it is in about 3 hours
If David Snyder had more guts, and chose to adapt the comic into a completely original movie, then I wouldn't bother comparing the movie with its graphic-novel source.

But as it turned out, he chose to use the comic as his storyboard and changed only a few details, for better or worse. As I've said, that's a sure recipe for making a bad movie.

As for the changed ending:
Spoiler:
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Old 2009-03-07, 12:14   Link #37
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I don't know much about this but all I know is that I didn't like the trailer.
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Old 2009-03-08, 03:10   Link #38
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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
Spoiler:
Glad to know I'm not the only one who thinks the movie ending is neater (in a conceptual sense).

Spoiler for ending:

Last edited by Oneiros; 2009-03-08 at 04:14.
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Old 2009-03-08, 04:21   Link #39
james0246
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Originally Posted by Oneiros View Post
Glad to know I'm not the only one who thinks the movie ending is neater (in a conceptual sense).

Spoiler for ending:
I agree that the new ending is fairly organic to the movie's story, and consequently should be discussed as a separate ending (and ultimately a separate story) not simply a reimagining of the original ending. That being said, here is a brief defense of the original ending:

Spoiler for Spoilers Ahoy!:
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Old 2009-03-08, 05:47   Link #40
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