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Old 2009-03-05, 15:12   Link #41
marvelB
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Ah finally, I found a translation of the spoiler script! Interestingly enough, Magellan asks Luffy how he managed to infiltrate the prison. Luffy simply responds that he would die before he answers that question (good to know that he's keeping Hancock out of trouble....). Also, it looks like Magellan has quite a nice variety of attacks.... the tear gas that was mentioned in the earlier summary was create through a grenade that he spat out of his mouth. Oh, and some of the guards were unlucky enough to get infected with the poison, heh.



As far as Buggy and Mr. 3/Galdino go, they decide to skedaddle while Luffy's busy fighting Magellan. Mr. 3 says that the guards will be too focused on keeping Luffy away from level 5 to pay much attention to them. Both of them are aware that Hannyabal is guarding the stairway to level 3, but Buggy thinks that the vice-warden can be taken out easily since he hasn't heard any rumors about him being a DF user. Heh, looks like those guys are underestimating the ambituous vice-warden. I kinda hope that he turns out to be a Rokushiki user or something, myself....




And... as far as Luffy's recklessness goes, while I do know that it tends to get him in trouble, I really can't picture him being a more scrupulous pirate. The fact that he's so rash is one of his strongest character traits and is what got him such a notorious reputation, anyway. Sure, he'll probably need to exercise more caution when he reaches the New World, but I think the opposite may also be true, as well; Kidd's speech about how pirates wouldn't survive in the NW if they don't have the testicular fortitude to shout out and say, "I'm gonna find the One Piece!" particularly comes to mind.




Oh, and if memory serves me right, Kokoro mentioned something about Gold Roger being a reckless idiot during the Enies Lobby storyline, as well. Plus, couple that with what Rayleigh said about him being "big and flashy" about everything he does, and you might say that the Pirate King was even more hard-headed than Luffy......
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Old 2009-03-05, 15:36   Link #42
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
Personally, I feel that Luffy's victories against Crocodile and Moria were big flukes. They easily could've beaten him but they greatly underestimated Luffy and that is what allowed them to be defeated. Each member of the shichibukai is extremely dangerous and powerful, and that is why they form one of the three world powers. They are all amongst the top tiers in the One Piece universe, Luffy isn't. To say that a rookie like Luffy is on their level at this point is a little far fetched. If Crocodile and Moria didn't mess around with Luffy, he definitely would've lost against them. Oda had to "dumb" them down by having them make stupid mistakes in order for them to lose and allow the story to advance.
But Luffy deafeted two Shichibukai, and without any help (he needed help with Oz). Youkai and Admirals for now are really something, but the Shichibukai are already being taken one by one. That is the reason why Goverment put such bounty on Luffy and why they hide Moria's deafet.
They underestimated Luffy? When?
Crocodile killed Luffy twice - first time he was saved by Robin, but how would though that burring him alive with huge hole in his belly wouldn't kill him. Second time only his great luck saved him, and even after he finally beat Crocodile, he would die without Robin giving him antidote.
As for Moria, first he waited till Oz was ready to serve him, and at the end he tried to beat him down with super power of 1000 shadows. Who the f**k would thought that Luffy's crew could beat down Oz (except for the viewers, I'm talking about normal people here).
Luffy deafeted two Shichibukai in their strongest forms. That's how I take it.

Besides there are now 3 good Shichibukai(Kuma, Boa and Jinbei), and that's with beaten moria like a half of them. We don't know much about Mihawk.
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Old 2009-03-05, 15:59   Link #43
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I agree, if Luffy (and the other Supernova for that matter) didn't have enough
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testicular fortitude
none of them would have made it even close to the New World. Thats the difference between them and, let's say Don Krieg
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Old 2009-03-05, 16:08   Link #44
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Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
Ah finally, I found a translation of the spoiler script! Interestingly enough, Magellan asks Luffy how he managed to infiltrate the prison. Luffy simply responds that he would die before he answers that question (good to know that he's keeping Hancock out of trouble....).
If Luffy's action here surprises anyone, then that person would be a failure as a One Piece fan. Luffy would do that for anyone who would help him out. Just as with the Davyback Fight or rescuing Robin from CP9.
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Old 2009-03-05, 18:44   Link #45
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If Luffy's action here surprises anyone, then that person would be a failure as a One Piece fan. Luffy would do that for anyone who would help him out. Just as with the Davyback Fight or rescuing Robin from CP9.
Well said.

Also, Luffy's recklessness is necessary for this manga. If Luffy was not as reckless as he is:
1. He would not be able to obtain the crew that he has. It was out of his recklessness that he was able to convince them to join.
2. Even if he was able to gather his crew members, they would probably be less loyal towards him. eg. Zoro would probably let Luffy be taken away by Kuma.
3. He would not grow in strength. That is to say, if Luffy were to be cautious most - if not all - of the time he would avoid all of the big fights that made him the person that he has become now.

If Luffy were to take more caution after hearing about Ace's execution, he would become a disgrace to all One Piece fans. He is the kind of self-sacrificial, altruistic hero that the fans have come to accept and look up to.

He is quite a knight in my books. He has the audacity to stand up to people who are superior to him in order to protect his nakama. If his impetuosity deteriorates at this point, he might as well throw away his dream of becoming Pirate King.
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Old 2009-03-05, 20:15   Link #46
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Originally Posted by Prancing Preys View Post
Well said.

Also, Luffy's recklessness is necessary for this manga. If Luffy was not as reckless as he is:
1. He would not be able to obtain the crew that he has. It was out of his recklessness that he was able to convince them to join.
2. Even if he was able to gather his crew members, they would probably be less loyal towards him. eg. Zoro would probably let Luffy be taken away by Kuma.
3. He would not grow in strength. That is to say, if Luffy were to be cautious most - if not all - of the time he would avoid all of the big fights that made him the person that he has become now.

If Luffy were to take more caution after hearing about Ace's execution, he would become a disgrace to all One Piece fans. He is the kind of self-sacrificial, altruistic hero that the fans have come to accept and look up to.

He is quite a knight in my books. He has the audacity to stand up to people who are superior to him in order to protect his nakama. If his impetuosity deteriorates at this point, he might as well throw away his dream of becoming Pirate King.
Actually there is a simpler way to say all of this... if Luffy were more caution than we all could have Usopp as a captain as well XD
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Old 2009-03-05, 20:17   Link #47
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Actually there is a simpler way to say all of this... if Luffy were more caution than we all could have Usopp as a captain as well XD
more like Sogeking

a captain with split personalities would be quite funny
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Old 2009-03-05, 22:28   Link #48
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As far as Buggy and Mr. 3/Galdino go, they decide to skedaddle while Luffy's busy fighting Magellan. Mr. 3 says that the guards will be too focused on keeping Luffy away from level 5 to pay much attention to them. Both of them are aware that Hannyabal is guarding the stairway to level 3, but Buggy thinks that the vice-warden can be taken out easily since he hasn't heard any rumors about him being a DF user. Heh, looks like those guys are underestimating the ambituous vice-warden. I kinda hope that he turns out to be a Rokushiki user or something, myself....
I'm hoping Hannybal isn't a Devil Fruit user myself, or else Buggy and Galdino may have bought it big time. Same goes for Sadi, if our female masochist of Impel Down happens to be a Devil Fruit user, that would be a nightmare on all levels of trouble.
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Old 2009-03-05, 23:25   Link #49
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Besides there are now 3 good Shichibukai(Kuma, Boa and Jinbei), and that's with beaten moria like a half of them.
Yeah and what a shame that is. Mihawk, Blackbeard and Doflamingo are the TRUE Shichibukai. The CORE of that bunch.
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Old 2009-03-06, 00:54   Link #50
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Yeah and what a shame that is. Mihawk, Blackbeard and Doflamingo are the TRUE Shichibukai. The CORE of that bunch.
I don't see Mihawk as being all that bad. He treated Zoro with great respect. I know he messed him up pretty bad, but he didn't give him a fatal blow. If anything he was impressed with Zoro's resolve. He has a personal interest in both Luffy and Zoro. He is also pretty close with Shanks.
Though, you might of been sarcastic in that comment.

I'm not just so willing to call Kuma a good person yet. He stands a good chance, but his real motive is suspect.
There is a very small possibility that Kuma sent everyone to islands or locations he thought they may want to stay in. Yet he underestimated how much they want to move forward. I keep getting this funny idea that he just accidentally mixed up where he was going to send Luffy and Sanji. I don't think it's likely. It would just be funny.
It's just that line he always says, "If you were going on a vacation, where would you like to go?". It's that and how he told Luffy they wouldn't ever meet again.
He did send away those Pacifist robots.

Sure, he was called 'The Tyrant Kuma', but the World Government also called Robin 'The Child of Demons'.
I'm waiting to see if they show the scene of Kuma being questioned about Luffy by someone in the Marines.

There is no reason to leave out Moria. Currently he still has his title as a Shichibukai. He was at the tactics meeting in the Holy Land.
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Old 2009-03-06, 01:26   Link #51
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I don't see Mihawk as being all that bad. He treated Zoro with great respect. I know he messed him up pretty bad, but he didn't give him a fatal blow. If anything he was impressed with Zoro's resolve. He has a personal interest in both Luffy and Zoro. He is also pretty close with Shanks. Though, you might of been sarcastic in that comment.
I'm not talking so much about being "good" but just mutha's being about their power and own ideals and willing enough to swing them at anyone. Those are the true badbeeps of Shichibukai. BTW, I wouldn't call a guy carving up giant turkeys [ships] for fun all that good either. Mihawks intrest in Zoro and Luffy is for his OWN benefit [It ain't a pleasant one like Boa Crapcock either].
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Old 2009-03-06, 05:47   Link #52
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I don't see Mihawk as being all that bad. He treated Zoro with great respect. I know he messed him up pretty bad, but he didn't give him a fatal blow. If anything he was impressed with Zoro's resolve. He has a personal interest in both Luffy and Zoro. He is also pretty close with Shanks.
Though, you might of been sarcastic in that comment.

I'm not just so willing to call Kuma a good person yet. He stands a good chance, but his real motive is suspect.
There is a very small possibility that Kuma sent everyone to islands or locations he thought they may want to stay in. Yet he underestimated how much they want to move forward. I keep getting this funny idea that he just accidentally mixed up where he was going to send Luffy and Sanji. I don't think it's likely. It would just be funny.
It's just that line he always says, "If you were going on a vacation, where would you like to go?". It's that and how he told Luffy they wouldn't ever meet again.
He did send away those Pacifist robots.

Sure, he was called 'The Tyrant Kuma', but the World Government also called Robin 'The Child of Demons'.
I'm waiting to see if they show the scene of Kuma being questioned about Luffy by someone in the Marines.

There is no reason to leave out Moria. Currently he still has his title as a Shichibukai. He was at the tactics meeting in the Holy Land.
Well, I meant that they are cool with SH now. Only Blackbeard and Flamingo are dangerous to them. I know that Kuma could probably beat the shit out of them when they meet again.

Shichibukai were suppose to be dogs of the military, and so far it looks like ALL of them are using the title and military for their own profits while scheming behind everyone's backs.
If Moria beat a Yonkou and had such power than he would rather become Yonkou, before becoming the pirate king -_-'
Kuma has connection to Dragon, but he still is very brutal throwards anyone else, except Dragon's son and his crew.
Don Flamingo has his smiles theory that we don't know much about yet.
Mihawk is a shichibukai because he can beat all those pirates and have a better reason - instead of "being bored" he can say "I'm a shichibukai, y'know".
We don't know if Jinbei was planing something, but he revolted against WG so it doesn't matter :P
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Old 2009-03-06, 06:10   Link #53
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Well, I meant that they are cool with SH now. Only Blackbeard and Flamingo are dangerous to them. I know that Kuma could probably beat the shit out of them when they meet again.

Shichibukai were suppose to be dogs of the military, and so far it looks like ALL of them are using the title and military for their own profits while scheming behind everyone's backs.
If Moria beat a Yonkou and had such power than he would rather become Yonkou, before becoming the pirate king -_-'
Kuma has connection to Dragon, but he still is very brutal throwards anyone else, except Dragon's son and his crew.
Don Flamingo has his smiles theory that we don't know much about yet.
Mihawk is a shichibukai because he can beat all those pirates and have a better reason - instead of "being bored" he can say "I'm a shichibukai, y'know".
We don't know if Jinbei was planing something, but he revolted against WG so it doesn't matter :P
Sounds more like you are mixing up the Shichibukai with the State Alchemists. Yes, the Shichibukai do take orders from the World Government, but mostly they do what they want. Look at the meeting to replace Crocodile. Only Flamingo, Kuma, and Mihawk showed up. When Mihawk showed up he stated he wasn't going to take part. Just observe do to his interest in the Straw Hat crew.
You often see the Shichibukai be defiant to the World Government members with no consequence. That is until this fight with White Beard.
Even Kuma destroyed the Pacifists and said that he wasn't going to help the Marines in captured, because he had no orders to do so. Sounds more like an excuse.
They might not even do anything to Kuma after Luffy's escape. They need him on their side. Not to mention it seems next to impossible to actually stop him. Unless you have a way to stop his ability to appear at random. He doesn't seem to need a ship.

We know why Jinbei revolted. It's a matter of honor to him. He wouldn't raise a hand against White Beard who rescued Merman Island. He also seems to believe that is White Beard fell the whole Grand Line would fall into chaos. He has so many islands named under his protection. It's a personal matter to Jinbei.

Has it ever been confirmed that Kuma is connected to Dragon? I thought that was just speculation as to why Kuma is helping Luffy.

Man I'm irritated. My favorite manga viewer site has the new Naruto and Bleach up, but still no One Piece. That always seems to be the last one.
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Old 2009-03-06, 07:26   Link #54
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Sounds more like you are mixing up the Shichibukai with the State Alchemists. Yes, the Shichibukai do take orders from the World Government, but mostly they do what they want. Look at the meeting to replace Crocodile. Only Flamingo, Kuma, and Mihawk showed up. When Mihawk showed up he stated he wasn't going to take part. Just observe do to his interest in the Straw Hat crew.
You often see the Shichibukai be defiant to the World Government members with no consequence. That is until this fight with White Beard.
Even Kuma destroyed the Pacifists and said that he wasn't going to help the Marines in captured, because he had no orders to do so. Sounds more like an excuse.
They might not even do anything to Kuma after Luffy's escape. They need him on their side. Not to mention it seems next to impossible to actually stop him. Unless you have a way to stop his ability to appear at random. He doesn't seem to need a ship.

We know why Jinbei revolted. It's a matter of honor to him. He wouldn't raise a hand against White Beard who rescued Merman Island. He also seems to believe that is White Beard fell the whole Grand Line would fall into chaos. He has so many islands named under his protection. It's a personal matter to Jinbei.

Has it ever been confirmed that Kuma is connected to Dragon? I thought that was just speculation as to why Kuma is helping Luffy.

Man I'm irritated. My favorite manga viewer site has the new Naruto and Bleach up, but still no One Piece. That always seems to be the last one.
Yeah, I think I know what site are you talking about XD

I thought that Kuma said Dragon's name after his deal with Zoro was done. Also juse before he sent SH all over the GL, he told Rayleish that it wasn't his plan to do so, as he himself wasn't sure if it would work.

I know that they allowed to pretty much whatever they want, but they still get the orders to stuff. Three of them showed up when they were dealing with Crocodile's replacment, but if someone didn't show up for WB war preperation than he or she would be banned as Shichibukai. That's the diffrence that WG stress on things.

Pirates can do whatever they want. However shichibukai has to fight other pirates, listen to WG orders (at least the most imporatnt ones) and can't overtrone countries and such. WG is cool with them bringing their own islands (like Moria), but not taking it from someone (like Croc). I can bet you right now that Don Flamingo's new era it tottaly against WG rules.
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Old 2009-03-06, 13:53   Link #55
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Exciting chapter. So as it appears Luffy 'sacrifices' his hands to jet bazooka Mallegan. The last picture depicts Luffy being covered in Mallegan's poisonous goo. Which struck me a bit odd. The drawing is confusing. Either the Jet Bazooka took some poison with it back to Luffy (wouldn't explain the large quantity as shown on the picture) or Mallegan sneaked in an attack.

In any case, Luffy, even without the poison attack seemed to be reaching his limit so a moment of pause/healing/eating will probably soon follow. I can even see some scenario where Luffy get's captured but escapes thanks to Bon Clay or (by mistake) Mr 3 and Buggy.
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Old 2009-03-06, 13:53   Link #56
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They underestimated Luffy? When?
Crocodile killed Luffy twice - first time he was saved by Robin, but how would though that burring him alive with huge hole in his belly wouldn't kill him. Second time only his great luck saved him, and even after he finally beat Crocodile, he would die without Robin giving him antidote.
I really don't think this is necessary to explain to you. Either you didn't pay attention to their last fight or you just forgot. In round 3 of Crocodile vs. Luffy, Crocodile didn't even use his sand powers against Luffy (I even double checked this fight just to make sure). He only used them at the very end and by that time it was too late for him. He decided to fight him as a "pirate" to the death and he only used his poison hook to fight, for he felt that the poison alone would be enough to get the job done. Why would Crocodile all of a sudden want to take the chance of only using his hook to kill Luffy when he didn't manage to do so while using his sand powers (which are much more deadly)? That shows you that he was too sure of himself and that he greatly underestimated Luffy. Little did Crocodile know that Luffy is a very resilient person, and him solely depending on the poison of his hook cost him the fight. It was a foolish way for him to fight in order to make sure Luffy would be killed once and for all.

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As for Moria, first he waited till Oz was ready to serve him, and at the end he tried to beat him down with super power of 1000 shadows. Who the f**k would thought that Luffy's crew could beat down Oz (except for the viewers, I'm talking about normal people here).
Luffy deafeted two Shichibukai in their strongest forms. That's how I take it.
When Moria got upset at Kuma for his suggestion of teaming up with him to defeat the strawhats, Moria said to him "You honestly believe that I could possibly lose to a tiny inexperienced crew like that?", which implies that he didn't take them seriously at all. Moreover, using Shadows Asgard was a stupid move on Moria's part. He was seriously damaged by Nightmare Luffy's pistol and storm (a feat of power far greater than Normal Luffy possesses) to the point where he could barely retain consciousness, and yet he felt that he should do a move that would put great physical and mental strain on his body? Each blow Luffy landed on him literally made shadows expel out of his mouth, and that's how poor his control was in trying to sustain all of those shadows in that state. Basically, Moria was trying to tell Luffy this: "Not only I am a much stronger than you, but I can take in a hell of a lot more shadows than you can." He was being too boastful and he tried to fight Luffy in a direct physical manner, a fighting style which Moria is not good at in the least. The first time Moria and Luffy fought, he was simply playing around with him and Luffy couldn't even touch him (he only touched him once because he let his guard down) thanks to his doppleman. Imagine if he fought Luffy seriously like that. Moria is far more dangerous when he fights with trickery and doppleman, not when he is such a big, slow, and bloated target trying to defeat his opponent with brute force.

And these are the examples that substantiate how Oda had to "dumb" down Crocodile and Moria in order for Luffy to win.
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Old 2009-03-06, 13:58   Link #57
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One Piece at this point needs moar Doflamingo.
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Old 2009-03-06, 14:59   Link #58
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great chapter, mebbe some haki business going at the end there, though luffy's arm bulging up does not look too good
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Old 2009-03-06, 15:14   Link #59
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I really don't think this is necessary to explain to you. Either you didn't pay attention to their last fight or you just forgot. In round 3 of Crocodile vs. Luffy, Crocodile didn't even use his sand powers against Luffy (I even double checked this fight just to make sure). He only used them at the very end and by that time it was too late for him. He decided to fight him as a "pirate" to the death and he only used his poison hook to fight, for he felt that the poison alone would be enough to get the job done. Why would Crocodile all of a sudden want to take the chance of only using his hook to kill Luffy when he didn't manage to do so while using his sand powers (which are much more deadly)? That shows you that he was too sure of himself and that he greatly underestimated Luffy. Little did Crocodile know that Luffy is a very resilient person, and him solely depending on the poison of his hook cost him the fight. It was a foolish way for him to fight in order to make sure Luffy would be killed once and for all.



When Moria got upset at Kuma for his suggestion of teaming up with him to defeat the strawhats, Moria said to him "You honestly believe that I could possibly lose to a tiny inexperienced crew like that?", which implies that he didn't take them seriously at all. Moreover, using Shadows Asgard was a stupid move on Moria's part. He was seriously damaged by Nightmare Luffy's pistol and storm (a feat of power far greater than Normal Luffy possesses) to the point where he could barely retain consciousness, and yet he felt that he should do a move that would put great physical and mental strain on his body? Each blow Luffy landed on him literally made shadows expel out of his mouth, and that's how poor his control was in trying to sustain all of those shadows in that state. Basically, Moria was trying to tell Luffy this: "Not only I am a much stronger than you, but I can take in a hell of a lot more shadows than you can." He was being too boastful and he tried to fight Luffy in a direct physical manner, a fighting style which Moria is not good at in the least. The first time Moria and Luffy fought, he was simply playing around with him and Luffy couldn't even touch him (he only touched him once because he let his guard down) thanks to his doppleman. Imagine if he fought Luffy seriously like that. Moria is far more dangerous when he fights with trickery and doppleman, not when he is such a big, slow, and bloated target trying to defeat his opponent with brute force.

And these are the examples that substantiate how Oda had to "dumb" down Crocodile and Moria in order for Luffy to win.
Ok, so let's say that their too boostful, but that makes them more human, and more real.
I wouldn't say that Moria would keep up with Luffy's Soru+gear 2nd.
One of the reasons why Crocodile didn't use enought sand was because it would cause the building ot colapse.
We know for sure that Kuma didn't underestimate them, and beat the crap out of all SH, but what about Mihawk? He fought against Zoro using a small knife and won, and neighter Crocodile or Moria was that bad.
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Old 2009-03-06, 15:28   Link #60
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I wouldn't say that Moria would keep up with Luffy's Soru+gear 2nd.
Like I said before, Moria was only fooling around. If he actually tried hard and put in some effort, things wouldn't go well for Luffy.

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One of the reasons why Crocodile didn't use enought sand was because it would cause the building ot colapse.
No. Crocodile can make things materialize into sand only when he does "Ground Death". He could've just used his other moves, and even if he did cause the building to collapse as a result of "Ground Death", he could survive without a problem since he is sand. Luffy would be the one in very big trouble.

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but what about Mihawk? He fought against Zoro using a small knife and won, and neighter Crocodile or Moria was that bad.
I don't understand what you mean here. Can you please clarify?
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