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Old 2009-03-06, 15:34   Link #61
marvelB
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Well, after checking out the full chapter, I'm now 100% certain that Magellan is NOT a Logia. The way he travelled through his poison hydra definitely confirms this (there's also the fact that he got hit by Luffy, but we already knew that). Speaking of the warden, he's definitely awesome.... I see those horns on his head are actually more like weapons/accessories (you can see he has hair underneath the horns when he pulls them off). He also has some awesome facial expressions, too.... I especially like that close-up of him on page 8. His expression when chewing the poison gas bomb was rather amusing, as well. Now let's hope that Hannyabal is no slouch in combat, either.....




Oh, and it looks like Luffy's not far away from Daz's cell, interestingly enough. I also like how Sadi and the guardians are taking their sweet time drinking sake.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
The first time Moria and Luffy fought, he was simply playing around with him and Luffy couldn't even touch him (he only touched him once because he let his guard down) thanks to his doppleman. Imagine if he fought Luffy seriously like that. Moria is far more dangerous when he fights with trickery and doppleman, not when he is such a big, slow, and bloated target trying to defeat his opponent with brute force.



Yep, that's why Moria's my favorite Shichibukai..... he may be a lazy pig, but that doesn't mean that he's some pushover. Unfortunately, his pride (and a convenient plot device) got the better of him at Thriller Bark. Oh well, he still has another chance to shine during the Whitebeard war.....

Last edited by marvelB; 2009-03-06 at 15:47.
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Old 2009-03-06, 15:48   Link #62
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Did Luffy 1hko Magellan in the end ?And when i was just hoping to see some new stuff Luffy might've learned ;d,but what's going to happen to his arms ?And Frankly i'd be a lil disappointed if that's all Magellan had....
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Old 2009-03-06, 16:49   Link #63
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^I am in the same boat (that is my One Piece joke for the day ). Part of me simply wants Magellan to be taken down so that the plot can move along (if I was actually invested in Magellan as a character (like say he was the one personally beating Ace, or something that actually affects the story) then I might want to see a drawn out battle. But, as it is, Magellan seems to be nothign more than a strange obstacle in the way of Luffy's progression. Magellan is a little bit like the crazy chef that knew Ramen-Kempo from the Eneis Lobbey arc - they are both important to the organization they are apart of, but they are never built up as anything but 'named' cannon fodder.)

Then again, another part of me likes Magellans character design just enough that I want to see if his size (et cetera) actually helps in the battle. Plus, the fact that he is the Warden of Impel Down is pretty cool...
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Old 2009-03-06, 17:10   Link #64
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I highly doubt that Magellan is down for the count. Not yet, anyway. However, I don't believe this will be a long fight, either. Sure, we've got both wardens plus the guardians to worry about now, but we still haven't reached level 5 (along with the rumored 6+) yet. There could still be some hidden dangers in the lower levels that are much more fearsome than the "Impel Down all-stars" awaiting Luffy and his band of prison escapees later in the storyline......
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Old 2009-03-06, 17:32   Link #65
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Actually now that i think about it,yeah Jet attacks are really strong to even break the Tekkai ,and Magellan is i'm pretty sure used to see people scared to touch him,so his body might not be that strong and in addition now Luffy has damaged his arms,so he needs to find the antidote or something to fix them back xd
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Old 2009-03-06, 17:36   Link #66
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After reading chapter I kinda ended up believing Magellan IS Logia user.

He pretty much dissolved to poison at some points and he seem to extract poison from any part of his body.

I don't think Blackbeard who is also logia user could completely vaporize to his fruit element, travel and emerge again. I think that there is quite a lot of diffrences with Logia family fruits, only common element would be able to manipulate 'element' such as:

Smoke
Sand
Lightning
Ice
Poison
Light
Darkness

Crocodile could produce diffrent types of sand, so can Magellan produce diffrent types of poison. In this chapter Magellan seem to be completely formed from poison, even his face is melting from heat.

Paramecia that most closely resembles Magellans fruit is Mr.3's Doru Doru wax paramecia fruit, but however even if Wax is very vulnerable to heat hes body won't show signs of melting, only if he summons his power wax starts to melt immediatly.

Logia users are so much one with their element that heat of Level 4 is actually infecting Magellan physically bringing out his elemental body properties.

Marvel based his argument that Magellan is paramecia because he used Venom road to travel instead just vaporizing into poison and appearing next ot Luffy, I think that in Venom road he actually proved he is Logia, he dissolved entire lower body to poison and formed road with it, I doubt that paramecia could do such.

Also I doubt that Blackbeard could vaporize into darkness and move around without physical form, I think that some Logia's you cant turn 100% into elemental form.
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Old 2009-03-06, 17:57   Link #67
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I just realized something, Magellan is significantly weaker by fighting on Level 4. With the constant heat and steam, poison will be less effective, considering that it can be expelled far more quickly when the body overheats. Added to that, Gear 2 (and potentially Gear 3) can force the poison out of the body entirely. (obviously, this does not account for the poisons that are hot enough to melt rock .)

Boy, do I feel stupid for not conecting the dots earlier.
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Old 2009-03-06, 18:24   Link #68
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Blackbeard D. Kuma I meant that Mihawk was even more arogant - however at that time Zoro was a nobody for him, and he unlike others can read people better - the greates swordman should be able to read people's abilities just by seeing them walk or something like that.

Now that I think about Nightmere Luffy - he was a great polot device that bring the lose of Moria much closer to his deafet, and him trying to take 1000 was to much, but don't know if he could handle 100 like Luffy (at that point of battle I don't see him fighting without trick like that), and he's too lazy to fight - but that's a diffrence between him and e.g. Kuma. They might be consider weak not because of his strenght, but because of his personality - but maybe that's because he lost at New World.

Most human beings are weaker on lvl4 - maybe Ace without handcuffs would feel good XD
Luffy can't use Gear 3 now - he can't bite his finger with posioned hands.

Prestige you're missing the point of Logia. Any Logia user can become the element, and if Magellan were logia than Luffy wouldn't be able to hit him like marvelB pointed out. Instead of becoming the element he used it to push through it - if he was logia he would dissolve and show up at the end of hydra's mouth instead (he used it like Iceman from X-men). He is paramencia like Mr.3, he creates poison like Mr.3 creates wax and that's it.
You pointed out that he looks like melting, but that's his ability and the posion that he creates all over his body - the heat just makes it evaporate quickly. He was like that back in Ace's level and it wasn't hot up there.

Your really missing the point here - Blackbeard said it himself that he is the only one logia user that can't turn into element.
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Old 2009-03-06, 18:44   Link #69
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Good catch on the unable to use gear 3 thing. i didnt realize that. but i think if he did activate it anyway he would break to bridge they're on. Incidentally though i'd have to disagree with you on the luffy being shichibukia level yet. My reasons are the same as Blackbeards. Both croc and moria saw luffy as a regular rookie that they wouldn't have to break a sweat over and held back/only half fought because of it. Anyways how strong was nightmare luffy? shichibukia level?
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Old 2009-03-06, 18:46   Link #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
I just realized something, Magellan is significantly weaker by fighting on Level 4. With the constant heat and steam, poison will be less effective, considering that it can be expelled far more quickly when the body overheats. Added to that, Gear 2 (and potentially Gear 3) can force the poison out of the body entirely. (obviously, this does not account for the poisons that are hot enough to melt rock .)

Boy, do I feel stupid for not conecting the dots earlier.
wouldn't it be the other way around, poison entering the body, in a higher temperature situation, the poison circulates through the body faster, so the posions affects are more pronounced and the symptons are onset faster? Unless luffy has 12 kidney's to filter out the poison from his blood
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Old 2009-03-06, 18:58   Link #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanzo View Post
Good catch on the unable to use gear 3 thing. i didnt realize that. but i think if he did activate it anyway he would break to bridge they're on. Incidentally though i'd have to disagree with you on the luffy being shichibukia level yet. My reasons are the same as Blackbeards. Both croc and moria saw luffy as a regular rookie that they wouldn't have to break a sweat over and held back/only half fought because of it. Anyways how strong was nightmare luffy? shichibukia level?
Nightmere Luffy is beyond Oz's level XD I dunno he something like that could beat a Yonkou, but I think it supprassed shichibukai level XD

In One Piece I prefer to call it Luffy's super luck instead of plot devices XD This story is way better than Naruto because anything can happen

Ok, so Croc and Moria were beaten by luck, but what about Luffy now? Would he beat Croc easily? We know that Buggy or Mr.3 wouldn't be much of a fight.

I thought of something that could prove that Ace could be on level 6. Level 5 suppose to be for 100 000+ bounties, right? Than what about Croc - he was below that bar and even if it was said that he would be doubled - he was caught and no rising should happen. Why is he on Ace's level when his bounty wouldn't suggest him being worth it... that would mean that this level is for people that are just too dangerous, like the prison in Bleach where Mayuri was kept :P
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Old 2009-03-06, 19:02   Link #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolcik View Post
Blackbeard D. Kuma
Prestige you're missing the point of Logia. Any Logia user can become the element, and if Magellan were logia than Luffy wouldn't be able to hit him like marvelB pointed out. Instead of becoming the element he used it to push through it - if he was logia he would dissolve and show up at the end of hydra's mouth instead (he used it like Iceman from X-men). He is paramencia like Mr.3, he creates poison like Mr.3 creates wax and that's it.
You pointed out that he looks like melting, but that's his ability and the posion that he creates all over his body - the heat just makes it evaporate quickly. He was like that back in Ace's level and it wasn't hot up there.

Your really missing the point here - Blackbeard said it himself that he is the only one logia user that can't turn into element.
Logias can dissolve to element to avoid physical attacks but so far several logias has been received physical strikes;

Smoker (by suprise)
Crocodile (by moisture)
Enel (by rubber)
Ace (by suprise)

Avoiding physical blow as Logia seem to require atleast some level of focus and we don't know what is Magellans fruits (if it is Logia) vulnerability, perhaps it is heat or perhaps Luffy's Jet bazooka just connects in blink of eye that no time to dissolve to avoid blow.

DON'T FORGET LUFFY'S HAKI. If Luffy's attack was infused by Haki then Logia is unable to absorb it, Luffy has Haki of the Kings but he is quite ignorant of his power and he cannot control it yet so its random and seem to be tied to his emotions...and Luffy was quite emotional during his attack, even going far enough to sacrifice his hands, he could very possibly to infuse some Haki to his attack to connect blow succesfully.

If we take Luffy's possible haki to account then Magellan being Logia would be more realistic... it would be good enemy to force Luffy master his haki.
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Old 2009-03-06, 19:09   Link #73
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Originally Posted by Nosauz View Post
wouldn't it be the other way around, poison entering the body, in a higher temperature situation, the poison circulates through the body faster, so the posions affects are more pronounced and the symptons are onset faster? Unless luffy has 12 kidney's to filter out the poison from his blood
Actually, his extreme sweating would take care of some of the poison (he could excrete the poison, much the same as you can sweat out a cold), and Gear 2 would almost expel the poison (since his blood literally begins to boil). Added to that, a poison effects a slower paced heart far more leathally than a heart that is beating fast (yet another reason why Gear 2 is useful against poison). Added to all of this is Luffy's high metabolism which lets Luffy break down the poison and expel it faster (overall if an antidote is not around, and you cannot not forcibly extract a posion, the best way to get rid of it is to force it to run faster so that it can be expelled faster with less damage to the body). Eating a lot of food could also help to lessen any extreme reactions.

So, over all, besides inevitable heat exhaustion and dehydration, Luffy is technically in a better position for a battle with a Poison user than if he were to have fought him in Level 1/2 or Level 5.
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Old 2009-03-06, 19:21   Link #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Actually, his extreme sweating would take care of some of the poison (he could excrete the poison, much the same as you can sweat out a cold), and Gear 2 would almost expel the poison (since his blood literally begins to boil). Added to that, a poison effects a slower paced heart far more leathally than a heart that is beating fast (yet another reason why Gear 2 is useful against poison). Added to all of this is Luffy's high metabolism which lets Luffy break down the poison and expel it faster (overall if an antidote is not around, and you cannot not forcibly extract a posion, the best way to get rid of it is to force it to run faster so that it can be expelled faster with less damage to the body). Eating a lot of food could also help to lessen any extreme reactions.

So, over all, besides inevitable heat exhaustion and dehydration, Luffy is technically in a better position for a battle with a Poison user than if he were to have fought him in Level 1/2 or Level 5.
That's actually saying that if he beats Magellan in next one or two chapters than he will go eat as he wants... how many tasty beast are in level 5? I don't think that he'd eat Koala XD
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Old 2009-03-06, 19:28   Link #75
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Y'know, I initially thought that Bon Clay would meet up with Daz Bones first, but since it looks like Luffy's actually closer to his cell, I guess they'll be the ones meeting up instead. I can actually see the scenario now: Daz asks Luffy something like, "Hey, Straw-Hat..... did Roronoa learn how to cut diamonds yet?" Then when Luffy answers no, he'll be all like, "Hmm.... I see." Cue Daz breaking out of his cell and slicing Magellan into confetti. Man, would it be awesome if that actually happened next chapter.....
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Old 2009-03-06, 20:01   Link #76
Wolcik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
Y'know, I initially thought that Bon Clay would meet up with Daz Bones first, but since it looks like Luffy's actually closer to his cell, I guess they'll be the ones meeting up instead. I can actually see the scenario now: Daz asks Luffy something like, "Hey, Straw-Hat..... did Roronoa learn how to cut diamonds yet?" Then when Luffy answers no, he'll be all like, "Hmm.... I see." Cue Daz breaking out of his cell and slicing Magellan into confetti. Man, would it be awesome if that actually happened next chapter.....
I checked just in case if Bon-chan had his handcuffs on, and he did - so there is no possibility that a DF wouldn't have his when in cell. Unless saved they won't escape, but we saw that Mr.1 is interested
The more I think about it the less I want to see Luffy's fight now - go to Vice-chief cause he's awesome XD
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Old 2009-03-06, 20:08   Link #77
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Actually, his extreme sweating would take care of some of the poison (he could excrete the poison, much the same as you can sweat out a cold), and Gear 2 would almost expel the poison (since his blood literally begins to boil). Added to that, a poison effects a slower paced heart far more leathally than a heart that is beating fast (yet another reason why Gear 2 is useful against poison). Added to all of this is Luffy's high metabolism which lets Luffy break down the poison and expel it faster (overall if an antidote is not around, and you cannot not forcibly extract a posion, the best way to get rid of it is to force it to run faster so that it can be expelled faster with less damage to the body). Eating a lot of food could also help to lessen any extreme reactions.

So, over all, besides inevitable heat exhaustion and dehydration, Luffy is technically in a better position for a battle with a Poison user than if he were to have fought him in Level 1/2 or Level 5.
Well, I don't think you should look to deep into this. It really depends on what kind of toxic there are.

For example, many lethal gas may enter the body through not only breathing, but also through your skin, and sweating, making sweat gland open bigger would be fatal. His rising body temperature would also push the chemical reaction into another level. Or many particular toxic would only react in acidic or base environment, or put a hole in or stomach, and eating certainly isn't a great idea. I also don't see why touching acid with a heated body is a better idea.

Again, only Oda is the one with the final saying.
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Old 2009-03-06, 20:17   Link #78
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Wow this chapter was pretty good. THe spoilers made it sound like crap.
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Old 2009-03-06, 20:23   Link #79
Wolcik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinocard View Post
Well, I don't think you should look to deep into this. It really depends on what kind of toxic there are.

For example, many lethal gas may enter the body through not only breathing, but also through your skin, and sweating, making sweat gland open bigger would be fatal. His rising body temperature would also push the chemical reaction into another level. Or many particular toxic would only react in acidic or base environment, or put a hole in or stomach, and eating certainly isn't a great idea. I also don't see why touching acid with a heated body is a better idea.

Again, only Oda is the one with the final saying.
We shouldn't forget that Oda like most artist doesn't know any of this. So when one day someone asks him question about whenever Magellan poison should work better or worse on Luffy because of blood pressure and tempreture he'd be like:
"Hey, I made them swet and complain that it's hot, right?"

It's like with the hair burining thng - a common knowladge for some (even for people that just have a lot of free time and a lighter to play with) - but doesn't have to do anything with One Piece.

It's like a fan studies sience or biology so they can point such thing, but the autor actually study drawning stuff and has to make story on his own basics - as you progress with drawning you find that learning math and sience becomes harder and harder.
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Old 2009-03-06, 20:24   Link #80
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Originally Posted by Prestige View Post
After reading chapter I kinda ended up believing Magellan IS Logia user.

He pretty much dissolved to poison at some points and he seem to extract poison from any part of his body.

I don't think Blackbeard who is also logia user could completely vaporize to his fruit element, travel and emerge again. I think that there is quite a lot of diffrences with Logia family fruits, only common element would be able to manipulate 'element' such as:

Smoke
Sand
Lightning
Ice
Poison
Light
Darkness

Crocodile could produce diffrent types of sand, so can Magellan produce diffrent types of poison. In this chapter Magellan seem to be completely formed from poison, even his face is melting from heat.

Paramecia that most closely resembles Magellans fruit is Mr.3's Doru Doru wax paramecia fruit, but however even if Wax is very vulnerable to heat hes body won't show signs of melting, only if he summons his power wax starts to melt immediatly.

Logia users are so much one with their element that heat of Level 4 is actually infecting Magellan physically bringing out his elemental body properties.

Marvel based his argument that Magellan is paramecia because he used Venom road to travel instead just vaporizing into poison and appearing next ot Luffy, I think that in Venom road he actually proved he is Logia, he dissolved entire lower body to poison and formed road with it, I doubt that paramecia could do such.

Also I doubt that Blackbeard could vaporize into darkness and move around without physical form, I think that some Logia's you cant turn 100% into elemental form.
< Uh, Prestige, you may want to change some things in your topic.
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