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Old 2009-03-05, 00:46   Link #2081
Raiga
tl;dr
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Age: 22
It's not too special, there are all these random rules but in the end it's basically just each kana goes to a certain syllable. I prefer to write out long vowels instead of using the macron (the line above the vowels), 1) because it's more true to the kana spelling and 2) I can't get macrons conveniently on the keyboard while typing. XD

Oh yeah and for the n kana you need to put the apostrophe there if a vowel comes next. Can't think of an example off the top of my head, but basically you'd distinguish んい from に by writing n'i instead of ni.
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Old 2009-03-05, 12:01   Link #2082
Ryuou
進む道は武士道のみ
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Dying to get back to Japan (but currently near Chicago)
Age: 26
Hmmm...めんどうくせぇ
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Old 2009-03-05, 16:53   Link #2083
Raiga
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Heh, I hear ya, but unfortunately learning the language from the internets means I got used to thinking in terms of Romaji... so I've been trying to break that habit lately.
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Old 2009-03-05, 23:12   Link #2084
Kylaran
A Priori Impossibility
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: California
Age: 23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iLney View Post
どの傘が....

Should が be の instead?

As it stands, I read the sentence as: Which umbrella is Mr. Tanaka? (Mr. Tanaka is an umbrella?)

But ye, that is my question too.
You're missing a pretty important part of the implied sentence.

どの傘が田中さん(の)ですか is the full sentence. If you look at it this way, 傘 becomes the subject (therefore が) and "田中さん (possessive particle)" serves to describe the umbrella. This would be read similarly to "which umbrella is that which belongs to Tanaka-san?" You can "equate" が with English "is" in such a sentence, although they don't have the same semantic purpose (since particles are not formal verbs, and Japanese has its own verbs for existence).

Quote:
Also, I have some trouble with "o", "de", and "ni" too.

私は時々公園を散歩します。

Why "を" there? "I walk the park?"
Because "taking a walk" implies a person taking a walk (I don't think I've ever seen it personified for animals without humanistic traits, but that could just be my lack of experience) there's no necessity of using another particle. I have heard 公園で散歩します though. Again, the inferred subject is a person, so there's no need to be specifically clear with the meaning of the particle because it doesn't serve the same meaning as an English preposition.

There are other examples, such as "graduate from high school" being 高校を卒業する instead of "から” which is usually the translation for "from." Just goes to show you that the inherent understanding of grammar between cultures is very different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iLney View Post
小林さんからだけには、返事が来なかった.
You need to break it down into individual sections:

Kobayashi-san from just (subject particle), reply (second subject particle) not come.

It makes little sense to us, but from a literal translation of the different parts of the sentence, it's possible to somewhat make out the overall meaning. が is often used for the second clause in a sentence that otherwise already denotes a formal subject. This is a bit different from English, though, since we would say "The only one that hasn't replied is Kobayashi-san" and thus have a few differences in grammar.
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Old 2009-03-07, 00:03   Link #2085
iLney
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Oh thank you very much

About "は" and "が," I wonder if this crackpot theory of mine is correct: は can be used only once in a sentence while が does not have that restriction. Is it correct?

Also, a silly question:

Natsuki: read Nat su ki or Na つ ki? (the latter is what I usually read, somehow I really like the sound of "つ" )

As for "から:" I've seen this a lot on my flash cards. But well, I feel that its meaning varies a lot. Could you please help me with it?
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Old 2009-03-07, 00:24   Link #2086
Ryuou
進む道は武士道のみ
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Dying to get back to Japan (but currently near Chicago)
Age: 26
Quote:
About "は" and "が," I wonder if this crackpot theory of mine is correct: は can be used only once in a sentence while が does not have that restriction. Is it correct?
For the most part yes (also follows the 1 per sentence rule for the most part). As is used for the main subject of the sentence. But you can come across more complicated sentences (with more than one clause or however you say it) where it'll come up more than once (probably no more than 2, but I can't say that as a definate). But for now, it's probably best to think that it's used only once. But the problem really lies with how easy it is to replace with as it can be used multiple times.

Quote:
Also, a silly question:

Natsuki: read Nat su ki or Na つ ki? (the latter is what I usually read, somehow I really like the sound of "つ" )
I'm not exactly sure what you're asking but, you can't make the sound "nat" in Japanese so that should answer your question.

Quote:
As for "から:" I've seen this a lot on my flash cards. But well, I feel that its meaning varies a lot. Could you please help me with it?
Its main use is to mean "from". As in receiving something from someone, or coming from somewhere. It can also mean "because" when used after a verb. (After a noun it becomes "da-kara") I'm kind of tired right now and can't think of more. So can someone else brainstorm a bit on my part?
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Old 2009-03-07, 00:53   Link #2087
Raiga
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Age: 22
I like to think of its meaning as "because" as just being an extension of its meaning as "from." As in, this effect came from this cause, you know?

Also the "ts" is one consonant sound and can not be split up, which is why seriously learning Japanese while thinking in terms of Romaji is bad. The "ts" is only approximating (quite close, but still an approximation) in Roman letters a consonant sound that doesn't exactly exist in English. Same thing with "fu" and the entire ra line.
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Old 2009-03-07, 01:33   Link #2088
Ryuou
進む道は武士道のみ
 
 
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Location: Dying to get back to Japan (but currently near Chicago)
Age: 26
Quote:
I like to think of its meaning as "because" as just being an extension of its meaning as "from." As in, this effect came from this cause, you know?
Count me on board for this train of thought too.
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Old 2009-03-07, 04:04   Link #2089
Circular Logic
土は幻に
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Join Date: Dec 2005
から can also mean 'after' when used after the -ta form of a verb.
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Old 2009-03-07, 14:37   Link #2090
Ryuou
進む道は武士道のみ
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Dying to get back to Japan (but currently near Chicago)
Age: 26
Oh yeah, but it's after -te form. You use "ato" after -ta form.
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Old 2009-03-07, 17:28   Link #2091
Circular Logic
土は幻に
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryuou View Post
Oh yeah, but it's after -te form. You use "ato" after -ta form.
Typo
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Old 2009-03-07, 17:44   Link #2092
iLney
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Thank you guys alot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiga View Post
I like to think of its meaning as "because" as just being an extension of its meaning as "from." As in, this effect came from this cause, you know?

Also the "ts" is one consonant sound and can not be split up, which is why seriously learning Japanese while thinking in terms of Romaji is bad. The "ts" is only approximating (quite close, but still an approximation) in Roman letters a consonant sound that doesn't exactly exist in English. Same thing with "fu" and the entire ra line.
Well, Idk. When I watched Minami-ke, I heard the girl say "Na su ki" when the sub was "Natsuki." Su and Tsu indeed have absolutely nothing in common in terms of sound.
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Old 2009-03-07, 17:47   Link #2093
Ryuou
進む道は武士道のみ
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Dying to get back to Japan (but currently near Chicago)
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Circular Logic View Post
Typo
Yeah I know.
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Old 2009-03-07, 20:15   Link #2094
Raiga
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Age: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLney View Post
Well, Idk. When I watched Minami-ke, I heard the girl say "Na su ki" when the sub was "Natsuki." Su and Tsu indeed have absolutely nothing in common in terms of sound.
Eh, well, when spoken sounds can get slurred and softened and whatnot, and as in every language all the speakers don't pronounce things exactly the same. The differences are usually so subtle you can't even describe them, but without them, aside from pitch, how else would you identify somebody's voice?

And while I don't recall the specific instance you're referring to so I wouldn't know if it's relevant in this case, don't forget fansubbers can make typos too. :P
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Old 2009-03-08, 09:04   Link #2095
ganbaru
books-eater youkai
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
I am not sure about a structure: (Verb)eba(Verb)hodo exemple:書けば書くほど、
would it be ( Verb) too much ?
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Old 2009-03-08, 10:50   Link #2096
soka
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Argentina
(Verb conditional) (verb) hodo translate as "the more you (verb) the more (something)"

日本語を勉強すればするほど上手になります
The more you study japanese the better you will become.
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Old 2009-03-08, 14:15   Link #2097
nikorai
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soka

Wow, thanks a lot for posting. That's very interesting. I didn't know such grammar. Looks pretty advanced to me. I should memorize it and more complicated cases are completely missing in the textbook I have.
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Old 2009-03-08, 21:53   Link #2098
iLney
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昨夜は三時間しか寝ませんでした。

Trans: I only slept 3 hours last night.

I understand most part saved the negative form of the verb. Why?
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Old 2009-03-08, 21:57   Link #2099
Raiga
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Age: 22
The しか means "only" or "nothing but," so I guess this'd be "last night I didn't sleep except for three hours" or something?
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Old 2009-03-08, 22:02   Link #2100
Ryuou
進む道は武士道のみ
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Dying to get back to Japan (but currently near Chicago)
Age: 26
Yeah it's negative because you're using しか.
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