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Old 2009-03-10, 12:05   Link #1781
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Minato View Post
Since the enemy is North Korea, points 1 & 2 should be ignored. The strategy should be to carpet-bomb them if they do try a counterstrike after their long-rang missile is intercepted. Most likely, those possible human shields and combat outposts are occupied by North Korean agents in disguise; who would want to bother with their safety?

Point 3 is quite important and thus, it is best to not fall into the enemy's hands. If that scenario is possible, soldiers and agents may fall into an actual risk of becoming POWs should take their own life whether they like it or not because that way.. They actually get to choose their way of dying, reducing possible undesirable North Korean interrogation. However, if the same scenario occurs to non-combatant civilians. The only answer would be a threat to destroy Pyongyang altogether, unless the hostages are released within a time limit. A time limit is necessary to ensure that the non-combatants do not suffer at the hands of the North Korean agents.
You have a number of good points there. but North Korea's army is not to be taken lightly, for it is known that they have forcibly conscripted South's civilians and indoctrinated ROK soldiers into their ranks in the Korean War. Given the ROK's better training, it will bolster the North's capability to fight off the Coalition if time drags on for too long.

Japan's attempt to Aegis the missile may not seem like a good idea, though it is not known for NK to have submarines to torpedo the ship, but their SOB (Special Operations Branch, and yes, pun intended) might hijack the ship like how USS Pueblo is done. North Korea's army is a one time use wildcard, can be very damaging, but lasts for only a while. Damage is certainly massive to a scale.

It is a pity quite a number of the Coalition signed the NNPT. Otherwise the problem could have been solved by a couple of Tridents in Pyongyang.
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Old 2009-03-10, 12:55   Link #1782
Ja-Y-Ce
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Wonder anyone has posted this: Another murder case related to manga

TAIPEI (Taiwan News) – A horrific random killing happened in Taipei shocks Taiwan society on Monday, leaving one dead and two injured. The arrested suspect claimed imitating the plot of a Japanese manga to perform the stabbing in order to “get rid of his bad luck”.

The 35-year-old jobless Huang Fu-kang killed landlord Jian Tian-chi, 51, and wounded his wife and son with advanced planning.

Huang said he browsed randomly on apartment rental website to search for victims. Huang made an appointment with Jian in his empty house, pretending to show interest in the apartment. During the tour, Huang suddenly hammered Jian to death and abandoned the body in the bathtub.

Discovering Jian’s home address in his pocket, Huang walked to his nearby residence, continuing the slashing upon seeing Jian’s wife Yu Jui-ying and son Jian Yu-lun. While Yu fainted in the living room, the younger Jian, drenched in blood, stormed out for help. As neighbors screamed over the bloody scene, Huang fled from the spot on motorcycle.

Yu was critically wounded and her son slightly injured when they were sent to the hospital. Coincidentally, Huang went to the same hospital for treatment on the left index finger injured during the killing and was arrested by the police after being identified by the junior Jian.

Huang confessed that he had been having bad luck since he lost NT$5 million in a failed business five years ago. He was made redundant for one year and unable to find a new job. Huang then remembered reading a story in a manga, saying that random killing can expel bad luck and nightmares.

Huang, a resident of Puli, Nantou County, made a list of Taipei landlords wishing to rent out apartments beforehand and came to the northern city a few days ago. He said Jian was the first person taking his call.

Huang was held into custody for suspicion of murder by Shihlin Prosecutors’ Office last night.

by Taiwan News, Staff Writer

Source: http://www.taiwannews.com.tw/etn/new...s=news_Society

I wonder what is the manga that he has been reading?!?

more update:

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...es-gunnm-manga

Last edited by Ja-Y-Ce; 2009-03-10 at 13:05.
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Old 2009-03-10, 13:14   Link #1783
Kamui4356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
You have a number of good points there. but North Korea's army is not to be taken lightly, for it is known that they have forcibly conscripted South's civilians and indoctrinated ROK soldiers into their ranks in the Korean War. Given the ROK's better training, it will bolster the North's capability to fight off the Coalition if time drags on for too long.
Wait, are you trying to say in the event of a war, the North Koreans will brainwash South Korean soldiers to fight against their own country in large numbers? They're not the borg here. Unless the soldiers in question were already sympathetic to the North, they're not going to fight for them.

Quote:
Japan's attempt to Aegis the missile may not seem like a good idea, though it is not known for NK to have submarines to torpedo the ship, but their SOB (Special Operations Branch, and yes, pun intended) might hijack the ship like how USS Pueblo is done. North Korea's army is a one time use wildcard, can be very damaging, but lasts for only a while. Damage is certainly massive to a scale.
Wait, what? You think North Korea could take over an Aegis destroyer with special operations guys in small boats? The Pueblo was an unarmed intelligence ship. A destroyer? Not so unarmed. Also calling them special forces doesn't make them the equivilent of US navy seals, British SAS, or Russian Spetsnaz. The reason those groups are so elite is they have the best of the best. Only a select few make the cut. When you have a large special forces branch like the North Koreans, you lose that.

Though I think it would be a waste of a perfectly good SM-3 to shoot down the north Korean missile unless it's course looks like it'll hit Japan.

Quote:
It is a pity quite a number of the Coalition signed the NNPT. Otherwise the problem could have been solved by a couple of Tridents in Pyongyang.
No one is going to launch a nuclear strike on North Korea regardless of treaties unless they use a wmd first.
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Old 2009-03-10, 14:02   Link #1784
endless2010
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North Korea could stand a decent chance in a war. An extremist with little to loose and a decent place to hide can very difficult to fight. In fact my guess is that N.K. plan during a war would be to stay put in it's own territory and try to capture as many POW as they can. They don't have to beat any one in order to get a favorable out come during a war. All they have to do is last long enough for the U.N. to step in and try to guilty trip Japan and S.K. into a peace treaty.
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Old 2009-03-10, 14:28   Link #1785
Shadow Kira01
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The only things I can be sure of is that the "Axis of Evil" to Bush Jr. has slightly changed. Instead of Iraq, Iran, and North Korea being America's top 3 enemy nations. The Obama Administration's top 3 enemies would be Iran, North Korea, and China. Unlike Bush Jr., Obama certainly wouldn't call them something ridiculous like the "Axis of Evil" as the fact it is pointless to do so.

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Originally Posted by Kamui4356 View Post
Wait, are you trying to say in the event of a war, the North Koreans will brainwash South Korean soldiers to fight against their own country in large numbers? They're not the borg here. Unless the soldiers in question were already sympathetic to the North, they're not going to fight for them.
From my knowledge, I think he meant that some South Korean soldiers had defected to the North Korean ranks during the Korean War. Thus, ROK-trained soldiers are currently residing in the North Korean army. I don't see this as much of a problem, considering that ROK soldiers aren't very powerful to begin with. In fact, without the help of the United States, the ROK army was near destruction during the Korean War. North Korean soldiers were much stronger. The more important concern is to question whether there are South Korean intelligence and military high-ranking members working for North Korea right now and also the amount of information they have at hand. Will it affect the outcome of the scenario? I doubt it but taking the consideration of civilians, it is best to not underestimate North Korea entirely because I am certain that North Korea's recent aggressive activities indicate that they are going to pull it off.

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Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
It is a pity quite a number of the Coalition signed the NNPT. Otherwise the problem could have been solved by a couple of Tridents in Pyongyang.
That is a shortcut but still... I wish that wars will not result in nuclear explosions. On the other hand, I mustn't forget that the North Koreans do have nukes. What happens if they use it while everybody else is hesistant to do so? I cannot even imagine.
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Old 2009-03-10, 14:29   Link #1786
Alchemist007
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Ridding the planet of NK would be as simple as a coordinated strike at their military installations (I guess we need spy satellites since they're all secretive). Rid the fire before it explodes.
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Old 2009-03-10, 14:39   Link #1787
Kamui4356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by endless2010 View Post
North Korea could stand a decent chance in a war. An extremist with little to loose and a decent place to hide can very difficult to fight. In fact my guess is that N.K. plan during a war would be to stay put in it's own territory and try to capture as many POW as they can. They don't have to beat any one in order to get a favorable out come during a war. All they have to do is last long enough for the U.N. to step in and try to guilty trip Japan and S.K. into a peace treaty.
That accomplishes exactly nothing for the North. The North fighting a defensive war would suit the South just fine. They just have to push the north Korean artillery out of range of Seoul and don't have to bother fighting on the ground at all after that. They can just dig in and hammer the North's infrastructure from the air. South Korea's larger population and industry can just grind the North down by sheer attrition, not even factoring in any allies.

In the event of war, the North needs to roll the dice and try to get a repeat of the opening stages of the war in the 50s. Of course the military situation isn't nearly as good for them as it was back then and they still lose if the US gets involved, and the US will get involved from the very start.

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Originally Posted by Shadow Minato View Post
From my knowledge, I think he meant that some South Korean soldiers had defected to the North Korean ranks during the Korean War. Thus, ROK-trained soldiers are currently residing in the North Korean army. I don't see this as much of a problem, considering that ROK soldiers aren't very powerful to begin with. In fact, without the help of the United States, the ROK army was near destruction during the Korean War. North Korean soldiers were much stronger. The more important concern is to question whether there are South Korean intelligence and military high-ranking members working for North Korea right now and also the amount of information they have at hand. Will it affect the outcome of the scenario? I doubt it but taking the consideration of civilians, it is best to not underestimate North Korea entirely because I am certain that North Korea's recent aggressive activities indicate that they are going to pull it off.
That does make a bit more sense. However, that was a long time ago and training they'd give is obsolete on a modern battlefield. I'm sure there are North Korean agents in the South though, but I doubt they'd be able to do much damage, if any. Simply knowing how the South will react to a North Korean invasion isn't going to change the fact that the South is far better trained and equipped.
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Old 2009-03-11, 07:58   Link #1788
SaintessHeart
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Originally Posted by Kamui4356 View Post
That does make a bit more sense. However, that was a long time ago and training they'd give is obsolete on a modern battlefield. I'm sure there are North Korean agents in the South though, but I doubt they'd be able to do much damage, if any. Simply knowing how the South will react to a North Korean invasion isn't going to change the fact that the South is far better trained and equipped.
Pueblo has a couple of 50 cal HMGs that are wrapped away in groundsheets. If it is mounted and used, it wouldn't really be captured. What I actually mean was that being Koreans in general might have made the South's soldier more susceptible to brainwashing to join the North in a case of capture, and vice-versa. Rarely would a certain species kill their own kind (unless we are talking about humans, sharks and certain genoa in general).

South may be better armed and trained, but they have a smaller army, approximately 400,000 troops less. One fearful thing is that the entire of Korea might turn into another Vietnam War if an invasion occurs. I don't think North Korea is as weak as Afghanistan or Iraq, but definitely not as strong as its fellow "rogue state" Iran.

What really puzzles me is that why would North Korea want a satellite despite its modern communications network being limited to Pyongyang only? Highly likely it would be an excuse to build a LRM.
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Old 2009-03-11, 11:25   Link #1789
Kamui4356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Pueblo has a couple of 50 cal HMGs that are wrapped away in groundsheets. If it is mounted and used, it wouldn't really be captured. What I actually mean was that being Koreans in general might have made the South's soldier more susceptible to brainwashing to join the North in a case of capture, and vice-versa. Rarely would a certain species kill their own kind (unless we are talking about humans, sharks and certain genoa in general).
I'd think that would work the other way around actually. How many South Koreans, people from a rich nation where food is plentiful, are going to switch sides and defend a regime that starves it's people and keeps them in poverty? If anything, we'd be seeing the North Korean military surrendering in huge numbers like the Iraqis did the first Iraq war. Then again, maybe not. They might be living in a hellhole, but it's still their country and that means something to most people.

Also a couple of .50 cal machine guns doesn't count as being "armed". A destroyer usually has a bigger crew and always has a lot more firepower at it's disposal.


Quote:
South may be better armed and trained, but they have a smaller army, approximately 400,000 troops less. One fearful thing is that the entire of Korea might turn into another Vietnam War if an invasion occurs. I don't think North Korea is as weak as Afghanistan or Iraq, but definitely not as strong as its fellow "rogue state" Iran.
It's an advantage, but it's not enough to overcome the equipment gap or the natural defender's advantage. That's not even factoring in the air superiority the South would have on it's own, let alone if the US sends aircraft too. Remember, with things being equal, the general rule of thumb is you need at least a 3 to 1 numerical advantage to launch an offensive against a fortified position, with many claiming 5 to 1 as a better guide. Now a offensive against someone who has better training and equipment, and in fact has been training for exactly this scenerio, who also enjoys air superiority?


Quote:
What really puzzles me is that why would North Korea want a satellite despite its modern communications network being limited to Pyongyang only? Highly likely it would be an excuse to build a LRM.
If they can put a satellite in orbit, they can hit targets on another continent. That's why the US was so concerned when the Soviets first launched Sputnik. It's not the satellite, but the capability it proves the missiles have. Neither side really cares about the satellite here. It's what it shows the missiles can do. Even if the thing falls back to earth the next day, it still shows The North Korean missiles can do what they claim them capable of doing.
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Old 2009-03-11, 11:42   Link #1790
Xellos-_^
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Originally Posted by endless2010 View Post
North Korea could stand a decent chance in a war. An extremist with little to loose and a decent place to hide can very difficult to fight. In fact my guess is that N.K. plan during a war would be to stay put in it's own territory and try to capture as many POW as they can. They don't have to beat any one in order to get a favorable out come during a war. All they have to do is last long enough for the U.N. to step in and try to guilty trip Japan and S.K. into a peace treaty.
actually NK has no chance in a real war with the US military. Despite the problems in afghanistan and iraq the US military excels in convention warfare and that is what the NK military is train for with out of date equipement. A convenation war would play right into the US military's strength.

Another is that there will mass defections form the NK army, a majority of the grunts of the army are made of peasants who join the army not for patrotic reason but to get food in the stomach. And recently the NK government don't even have enough food to feed its own army.

before anyone says the Chinese will help, they won't the Chinese economy is too entwine with the world economy. If NK was stupid enough to fire the first shot there will be no Chinese help.

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Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Pueblo has a couple of 50 cal HMGs that are wrapped away in groundsheets. If it is mounted and used, it wouldn't really be captured. What I actually mean was that being Koreans in general might have made the South's soldier more susceptible to brainwashing to join the North in a case of capture, and vice-versa. Rarely would a certain species kill their own kind (unless we are talking about humans, sharks and certain genoa in general).
that is a very ignorant statement
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Old 2009-03-11, 12:40   Link #1791
Kamui4356
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before anyone says the Chinese will help, they won't the Chinese economy is too entwine with the world economy. If NK was stupid enough to fire the first shot there will be no Chinese help.
Actually, I wouldn't be suprised if the Chinese help... Just not the side everyone would expect them to. It's highly unlikely, but I could see them sweeping in from the North and taking Pyongyang while the bulk of the North Korean Army is being torn apart at the border with the South. This would give them a stronger position in any subsequent settlement and some PR points in their relations with the South. This could help keep the North a seperate nation to act as a buffer zone between the US troops in Korea and the Chinese border. Of course that would be highly risky, with a huge potential to start a wider conflict if they don't announce their plans to the US and South Koreans who would naturally assume that it was China reinforcing the North, and it could give China a bad reputation for betraying an ally.

Once again, highly unlikely, but not completely impossible.
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Old 2009-03-11, 13:04   Link #1792
Xellos-_^
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Originally Posted by Kamui4356 View Post
Actually, I wouldn't be suprised if the Chinese help... Just not the side everyone would expect them to. It's highly unlikely, but I could see them sweeping in from the North and taking Pyongyang while the bulk of the North Korean Army is being torn apart at the border with the South. This would give them a stronger position in any subsequent settlement and some PR points in their relations with the South. This could help keep the North a seperate nation to act as a buffer zone between the US troops in Korea and the Chinese border. Of course that would be highly risky, with a huge potential to start a wider conflict if they don't announce their plans to the US and South Koreans who would naturally assume that it was China reinforcing the North, and it could give China a bad reputation for betraying an ally.

Once again, highly unlikely, but not completely impossible.
the main problem i see with this sceniro is that China would have to help pay into the North Korea rebuilding pot and that will be a huge pot needing hundreds of billions of dollars. By staying out and closing the border they can avoid having to pay any money in regard to NK.
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Old 2009-03-11, 13:52   Link #1793
Kamui4356
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the main problem i see with this sceniro is that China would have to help pay into the North Korea rebuilding pot and that will be a huge pot needing hundreds of billions of dollars. By staying out and closing the border they can avoid having to pay any money in regard to NK.
Yeah, that's one of the main problems there. That would depend on whether they think having a buffer state is worth more than what it would cost to help rebuild. I don't think it would be worth more, but it's hard to put a price on a buffer state.
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Old 2009-03-11, 19:44   Link #1794
LeoXiao
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Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
actually NK has no chance in a real war with the US military. Despite the problems in afghanistan and iraq the US military excels in convention warfare and that is what the NK military is train for with out of date equipement. A convenation war would play right into the US military's strength.

Another is that there will mass defections form the NK army, a majority of the grunts of the army are made of peasants who join the army not for patrotic reason but to get food in the stomach. And recently the NK government don't even have enough food to feed its own army.

before anyone says the Chinese will help, they won't the Chinese economy is too entwine with the world economy. If NK was stupid enough to fire the first shot there will be no Chinese help.
"Despite the problems?" I've said this before, and I'll say it again. Iraq is a desert, and the battles fought there against Iraq's real military (tanks and planes) were fought in a desert, where US troops and aircraft could be used to their full effect. On the other hand, North Korea has many mountains, forests, a smaller area to fight in, and more people than Iraq.
Part of what the North has been doing for the last 50 years is digging all kinds of fortifications and tunnels not just at the DMZ, but in the WHOLE COUNTRY. They even put weapons factories and airbases underground. And being by far the most militarized nation on earth, 5 million of the 23 million people who live in NK are either in the main army or some sort of militia, trained to hide in the mountains and tunnels and kill Americans and Southern "puppets" if war breaks out. [/i]5 million.[/i] Saddam's army had maybe a million men in 2003, and look at the problems we have there.
Furthermore, All North Koreans have been isolated from the outside world from 50 years, and being indoctrinated for that amount of time, will fight to the death. Food isn't really such a big issue when your populace is (sadly) already used to famines, and the army has rations tucked away under mountains of solid rock. Iraq is bad? The US Army will lose many tens of thousands of men trying to conquer North Korea, not to mention facing the possibility of nuclear weapons.

Also why wouldn't China defend North Korea? You think they're the happy, US-friendly capitalist nation the media makes them out to be? China's only acting this way since there's no war in Asia right now. Once the map starts looking like a Risk board, China will switch it's modus operandi faster than you can say "deficit." They will do anything within reason to make sure South Korea stays South Korea. North Korea is their only ally in Asia left. Everyone else are just trading partners. If North Korea is gone, China will be entirely surrounded by US bases, and there will be no one left in East Asia to attract the eyes of human rights people. By keeping North Korea around, China can sit at the 6-party talks and say that they are "concerned about Korean nukes just like everyone else is." North Korea makes China more normal, so China wants to keep things the way they are.
In any case, if China even so much as supplies North Korea with food/oil/weapons during a possible Second Korean War, there will be no way for the US and SK to win. With Chinese help (which is probable), the North's 5-million-man militia/army can just stay in their caves and bunkers for decades until the invaders leave.
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Old 2009-03-11, 20:10   Link #1795
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"Despite the problems?" I've said this before, and I'll say it again. Iraq is a desert, and the battles fought there against Iraq's real military (tanks and planes) were fought in a desert, where US troops and aircraft could be used to their full effect. On the other hand, North Korea has many mountains, forests, a smaller area to fight in, and more people than Iraq.
Part of what the North has been doing for the last 50 years is digging all kinds of fortifications and tunnels not just at the DMZ, but in the WHOLE COUNTRY. They even put weapons factories and airbases underground. And being by far the most militarized nation on earth, 5 million of the 23 million people who live in NK are either in the main army or some sort of militia, trained to hide in the mountains and tunnels and kill Americans and Southern "puppets" if war breaks out. [/i]5 million.[/i] Saddam's army had maybe a million men in 2003, and look at the problems we have there.
Furthermore, All North Koreans have been isolated from the outside world from 50 years, and being indoctrinated for that amount of time, will fight to the death. Food isn't really such a big issue when your populace is (sadly) already used to famines, and the army has rations tucked away under mountains of solid rock. Iraq is bad? The US Army will lose many tens of thousands of men trying to conquer North Korea, not to mention facing the possibility of nuclear weapons.
Food is a huge problem as every army in history travels on its stomach. It doesn't matter how much food it has stash in its undergrund bases as the US can starve them out. Also out of that 5 million how many actually want to join the army to defend NK and starving to death? the Majority join to for the food not patriotism. And the indoctrination does stand a chance agianst starving, there is good reason why North Korean defect every chance they get. They realise they live in a hell hole and they want out. Brain washing didn't work for the soviet, it didn't work for cuba and it certainly isn't going to work for North Korea. How much worst can a American occupation be compare to starving to death under your own government and it won't even be a American occuption as the bulk of the occupid troops with be South Korean.

Quote:
Also why wouldn't China defend North Korea? You think they're the happy, US-friendly capitalist nation the media makes them out to be? China's only acting this way since there's no war in Asia right now. Once the map starts looking like a Risk board, China will switch it's modus operandi faster than you can say "deficit." They will do anything within reason to make sure South Korea stays South Korea. North Korea is their only ally in Asia left. Everyone else are just trading partners. If North Korea is gone, China will be entirely surrounded by US bases, and there will be no one left in East Asia to attract the eyes of human rights people. By keeping North Korea around, China can sit at the 6-party talks and say that they are "concerned about Korean nukes just like everyone else is." North Korea makes China more normal, so China wants to keep things the way they are.
In any case, if China even so much as supplies North Korea with food/oil/weapons during a possible Second Korean War, there will be no way for the US and SK to win. With Chinese help (which is probable), the North's
China particptiong will depend on who fire the first shot. If NK is stupid to start the invasion on its China won't lift a finger to help. Why, the economy that is why. This is the 1950's China's economy is more entwine with SK, US and Jpana then with NK. NK is nothing more then a drain China's resource in the name of commie solidarty.

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5-million-man militia/army can just stay in their caves and bunkers for decades until the invaders leave
do you honestly believed the NK army/militia is that loyal?
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Old 2009-03-11, 20:44   Link #1796
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I have to agree with Xellos here, the N. Korean won't be as loyal as you'd expect from this indoctrination. If NK is indeed stupid enough to fire the first shot China will smile and prepare to get some nice mountainous lands.

Also the reason why the USA is losing in Iraq is IMO, because they're not carpet bombing every single building and gassing every hole. Remember they're still trying to front the Iraq war as a great liberating "insertion" which is much more different than "Let's destroy those baddies" the NK don't have hostages, they have targets, they have people who once they know that bombs will come their way will high tail it to wherever they can get to. The US may be reluctant to bomb everything, but I'm sure that China as you've stated wouldn't, since of their lack of human rights.
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Old 2009-03-11, 21:02   Link #1797
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lol, the NK military is not like the Taliban, for one most older generation north koreans actually just want to see their loved ones across the border, the division between north and south really split families apart, but the difference between Hamas/Taliban is one their philosphy is based on one of faith where as the conscripts of the NK army are primarily starving farmers, religous zeal is hard to combat, just look at Afghanistan. After what happened in Vietnam and with the current economic situation where the chinese depend on the imports to improve infrastructure and exports to generate wealth, their is probably no chance if NKs start a war for chinese intervention on behalf of the NKs. Plus saving north korea serves no purpose, if the Nks break the peace, if there is american/south korean aggression then china will have to fight to protect its borders but in any other case I don't see the chinese being all that willing to help.
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Old 2009-03-11, 21:16   Link #1798
Kamui4356
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Originally Posted by LeoXiao View Post
"Despite the problems?" I've said this before, and I'll say it again. Iraq is a desert, and the battles fought there against Iraq's real military (tanks and planes) were fought in a desert, where US troops and aircraft could be used to their full effect. On the other hand, North Korea has many mountains, forests, a smaller area to fight in, and more people than Iraq.
Part of what the North has been doing for the last 50 years is digging all kinds of fortifications and tunnels not just at the DMZ, but in the WHOLE COUNTRY. They even put weapons factories and airbases underground. And being by far the most militarized nation on earth, 5 million of the 23 million people who live in NK are either in the main army or some sort of militia, trained to hide in the mountains and tunnels and kill Americans and Southern "puppets" if war breaks out. [/i]5 million.[/i] Saddam's army had maybe a million men in 2003, and look at the problems we have there.
North Korea has a smaller population than Iraq, 23,790,000 to 29,267,000. Further, a war against North Korea is going to be, at first, the kind of defensive "stop the red horde" type campaign the US and South Korean militaries have both been built to fight for decades. The kind of fight that's been at the very root of western military thinking since the cold war.

Putting airbases underground seems like it'd be kind of a bad idea though, so I'll assume you mean put the hangers underground. The runways kind of need to not be underground after all. Not that it matters. Unless they have some UFOs hidden away, their mig-21s and the few newer aircraft in their inventory are going to die if the leave their underground hangers, assuming their runways aren't clusterbomb magnets and they can get off the ground in the first place.

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Furthermore, All North Koreans have been isolated from the outside world from 50 years, and being indoctrinated for that amount of time, will fight to the death. Food isn't really such a big issue when your populace is (sadly) already used to famines, and the army has rations tucked away under mountains of solid rock. Iraq is bad? The US Army will lose many tens of thousands of men trying to conquer North Korea, not to mention facing the possibility of nuclear weapons.
Food is a big issue, when the US and South Koreans will feed the North Korean people in areas under their control. When you have a people who are used to famine, and now they're being given food, which side do you think they're going to be more loyal to?

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Also why wouldn't China defend North Korea? You think they're the happy, US-friendly capitalist nation the media makes them out to be? China's only acting this way since there's no war in Asia right now. Once the map starts looking like a Risk board, China will switch it's modus operandi faster than you can say "deficit." They will do anything within reason to make sure South Korea stays South Korea. North Korea is their only ally in Asia left. Everyone else are just trading partners. If North Korea is gone, China will be entirely surrounded by US bases, and there will be no one left in East Asia to attract the eyes of human rights people. By keeping North Korea around, China can sit at the 6-party talks and say that they are "concerned about Korean nukes just like everyone else is." North Korea makes China more normal, so China wants to keep things the way they are.
China does what China thinks is in China's interest. If it comes down to a war, supporting North Korea is not in China's interest and China knows this.

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In any case, if China even so much as supplies North Korea with food/oil/weapons during a possible Second Korean War, there will be no way for the US and SK to win. With Chinese help (which is probable), the North's 5-million-man militia/army can just stay in their caves and bunkers for decades until the invaders leave.
Slight problem there. The US has had 7 years experience in dealing with an insurgency. When it comes to COIN operations, there's no one better at it than the US is right now. Further, why would the North Koreans continue to fight for a deposed government that was starving them when their people are getting fed? I don't think you have any idea how much food means to starving people.

Though let's not kid ourselves here either. North Korea can't win, but any war is going to be very bloody. I wouldn't be suprised to see a quarter of a million or more dead in the first 24 hours. Between Seoul getting hammered by North Korean artillery, and the meat grinder the border will become, that's probably a conservative estimate and assuming no wmds come into play.
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Old 2009-03-11, 22:28   Link #1799
Vinak
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: United States
Age: 26
Technology has really changed since the previous Korean and Vietnam wars, we cannot forget this. you simply cannot use strategies from decades past and expect them to work. We have ground penetrating radar, bunker buster bombs, stealth bombers. heck we even have anti missile technology.

not to mention this crazy shit in the works.

http://blog.wired.com/defense/2009/0...-balls-of.html
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Old 2009-03-11, 22:39   Link #1800
Nosauz
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Age: 25
Err... anti missle defense that has the slim margins of actually working. Anti missile defense will only work if we ever get lazer type weapons to work. But thats just nit picking. I mean really even if you know the trajectory of a missile it is very hard to acurately to shoot it down, not to mention if it was the nuclear variety the fallout radiation would be even worse, hence the stoppage of atmospheric atomic bomb testing. Plus tomhawk missles any one? we may not have missile command systems but for an offensive the US could easily take out a majority of those troops from airstrikes and tacitical naval bombardment.

not to mention that vehicles will soon be fitted with anti rpg units that will decrease the probability of deadly rpg fire.
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