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Old 2009-02-20, 04:21   Link #941
Kaisos Erranon
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Hey, I got into Eva precisely because of how popular it was. And although the first two-thirds of the show sucked balls, the last third and the movie were pure concentrated awesome.

Anyway, the problem with not judging a show by its fandom is that the fandom is the face of the show, especially on the Internet.

The fandom being overly critical is what really ruins it for me, as I'm not capable of enjoying anything after reading overly negative comments about it, because then I try to analyze everything instead.

This is my problem with Toradora right now too. Dammit.
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Old 2009-02-20, 06:16   Link #942
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Tangent: my problem with negative comments is not that they bash the thing I love, it's that they are, for the most part, unimaginative. They annoy me because they're repetitive and redundant.

This would theoretically follow in the same way for positive comments, but for some reason there are a lot less of those than negative comments.

I'd actually argue that when we say "fandom", we actually mean "the parts of fandom which irritate us enough to remember them". When I was writing Card Captor Sakura fanfiction, I identified myself as being in the CCS fandom, which led to a lot of assumptions from others that I was interested in the pairings (I wasn't; the functionality of the Clow Cards, on the other hand...) and the bashing of the "other romantic options" (which I saw as pointless). I doubt that this is all the CCS fandom consists of, but questioning revealed that it was what the fandom was remembered for.

Similarly, the MoHS fandom: we hear a lot of comments on "rabid fans" and such, even though I don't think we're anywhere near, say, Naruto or Bleach or post-Playstation Final Fantasy fans in terms of mass enthusiasm. We also haven't matched AD&D die-hards for Elitism, Marvel comics readers (and recently, Star Wars) for Rage Against The Creator, or Twilight fans for biting the heads off dissenters. All of which pale to the "fandoms" of religions, politics, and sports.

Nevertheless, MoHS fans have a reputation, illogically-derived though it may be. I can only suspect a limited reference pool, as well as selective perception: this is human nature.

Once, I remember trying to ascertain why someone seemed to hate MoHS so much. They said that it was because Haruhi was mentally unbalanced, based on her actions. I asked why they didn't complain as much about Genma Saotome in Ranma 1/2, and the answer was "because Ranma 1/2 is not as popular". Quite apart from the truth-value of that statement (I don't know the actual popularity comparison between MoHS and R1/2), it's a clear indicator that popularity backlash is a significant factor in why some people don't like MoHS.
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Old 2009-02-20, 06:23   Link #943
Kaisos Erranon
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I don't even understand popularity backlash at all though. Why would how popular something is affect your personal enjoyment of the work?

I can understand if the reactions to the show were overwhelmingly negative, but... only reason I can see is they were expecting the second coming of Jesus, and got something a lot less, and why would you ever hype yourself up that much as to HATE the end result?

Shouldn't people just make up their own damn mind?


And positive comments are rare because everyone on the Internet is a depressed young adult/teenager who feel that they're oppressed and no one understands them.
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Old 2009-02-20, 06:35   Link #944
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
I don't even understand popularity backlash at all though. Why would how popular something is affect your personal enjoyment of the work?
From your previous post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Anyway, the problem with not judging a show by its fandom is that the fandom is the face of the show, especially on the Internet.
It's not so much that the show is popular, as much as the show is popular and the people who like the show are ubiquitous. Irritatingly so; in a large population of people trying to Share The Love, it is inevitable that many of them will attempt to over-sell the product.

And (some) MoHS fans have tried to present it as the second coming. If not that, then "the best anime ever", "second to none", and "the only anime you need to watch" (all phrases I've seen used). I don't think anything can survive such high praise.

Faced with such ebullient recommendations, it's human nature (there's that phrase again) to notice the flaws even more. I know of people who hate MoHS because of its fandom, specifically the "Haruhiists", because they say it makes a mockery of religion. They do not seem to accept my pointing out of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and Discordianism and SubGenius and all that; possibly my debating technique needs work. My own explanation for "Haruhiism" is that we are geeks and nerds, and a major trait of geeks and nerds is that we will run a joke into the ground and dance on its mangled corpse, laughing.

And then there are some people who dislike MoHS because it is popular and for no other reason, like they dislike other popular shows (and other media). I cannot explain this, because that way of thinking is alien to me.
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Old 2009-02-20, 06:38   Link #945
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkellis View Post
It's not so much that the show is popular, as much as the show is popular and the people who like the show are ubiquitous. Irritatingly so; in a large population of people trying to Share The Love, it is inevitable that many of them will attempt to over-sell the product.
Figured it might be that, yeah.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkellis View Post
And (some) MoHS fans have tried to present it as the second coming. If not that, then "the best anime ever", "second to none", and "the only anime you need to watch" (all phrases I've seen used). I don't think anything can survive such high praise.
I used to do this. Possibly because I no longer think that.

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Originally Posted by dkellis View Post
And then there are some people who dislike MoHS because it is popular and for no other reason, like they dislike other popular shows (and other media). I cannot explain this, because that way of thinking is alien to me.
That's one of those things you don't even believe you've heard when you hear it in real life. Hating something because it's popular, is, well, something that's so stupid it sounds like it came out of fiction.
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Old 2009-02-20, 06:56   Link #946
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
I used to do this. Possibly because I no longer think that.
I always append "to me" and "in my opinion" to statements like "best anime ever" (which, to be fair, is still CCS; MoHS is "second best anime ever"). I've been told that doing so makes my argument sound weak, which is a surprise, since I didn't think it was an argument to be proven/disproven, but merely a statement in a conversation.

I've also been told that this viewpoint is taught (hammered into minds, more accurately) in schools in the US and possibly the UK as well. I don't know how true this is.

Changing tastes, or in my case the lack thereof, is another reason why I'm not too bothered with the delays behind season 2. My opinions, unless disproven by a convincing enough argument, remain quite static. This is possibly a problem; I've certainly had several people tell me it is.

Quote:
That's one of those things you don't even believe you've heard when you hear it in real life. Hating something because it's popular, is, well, something that's so stupid it sounds like it came out of fiction.
Like aliens, ESPers, time-travellers, and sliders... well, not really, since they're not exactly "stupid".

Truth is often stranger, so on and so forth. I don't pretend to understand or like it, but I accept that it's a possible trait of human nature, much like I don't like the Harry Potter books, but I accept that they're immensely popular.
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Old 2009-02-20, 07:07   Link #947
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkellis View Post
I've also been told that this viewpoint is taught (hammered into minds, more accurately) in schools in the US and possibly the UK as well. I don't know how true this is.
Which viewpoint? How not stating your opinion as though it is a fact makes it sound "weak" or that everything has to be an argument?
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Old 2009-02-20, 07:11   Link #948
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Which viewpoint? How not stating your opinion as though it is a fact makes it sound "weak" or that everything has to be an argument?
Adding "in my opinion" and suchlike to, well, my opinions. Apparently this makes the statement sound "weak".

I don't know, I've never been taught anything in the same area, much less this specific topic.
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Old 2009-02-20, 11:05   Link #949
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The "hate because it is popular" isn't all that hard to understand. It seems to come from the "I have to be different" mindset that seems to follow those into things like alternative lifestyles, goth, and other subsects that unwittingly start looking the same even though they are trying to be different. Because something is popular, it is "normal" and because it is normal, someone with the mindset that they have to be different would (typically) auto-reject it so that they can be different or unique.

It is sort of a way to make yourself feel special by being a deviant even though you are doing the same deviant thing as the ten people next to you.

At least this is how I've seen it so far.

The other part of this "I hate it because it is popular" are actually just trolls. They really don't hate it, just it looks cool to hate things on the internet. Maybe they've convinced themselves it "sucks" and won't watch it because of that. But otherwise they are just trying to get a reaction out of someone else...either in a "they fell for it, lets laugh at them" way or a "I need attention so I'll flame to get some" way.
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Old 2009-02-26, 21:58   Link #950
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I have a question about the Haruhi Theater . Haruhi Theater Act 1 ends with the setup for Haruhi Theater Act 2. Then Haruhi Theater Act 2 ends with what appears to be a setup for Haruhi Theater Act 3. Did they ever publish an Act 3, and if so, how many Acts are there.
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Old 2009-02-27, 00:10   Link #951
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So far, it's just the two. Tanigawa seemingly hasn't touched the series since publishing volume 9.
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... well at least it's consistent...
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Old 2009-03-07, 09:43   Link #952
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The two year anniversary for volume 9 is coming up in a few weeks by the way.
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Old 2009-03-10, 18:06   Link #953
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If Tanigawa is going to wait 3 years to release Surprise just because of symbolism, I swear....
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Old 2009-03-11, 08:33   Link #954
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Just wanted to interrupt the little throwdown between the believers, but has there been any confirmation about the April 3 airing? That's awfully close to April the 1st, and I wouldn't put it past Kadokawa to troll us YET AGAIN.

In all seriousness though, is there truth in the scuttlebutt that what we'll get is essentially Season 1 + 12 additional episodes, all scrambled together again?
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Old 2009-03-11, 10:38   Link #955
Ithekro
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There are air dates and times on 14 channels + Youtube from haruhi/tv.

As for what they are airing...no clue.
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Old 2009-03-11, 12:45   Link #956
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by Myssa Rei View Post
Just wanted to interrupt the little throwdown between the believers, but has there been any confirmation about the April 3 airing? That's awfully close to April the 1st, and I wouldn't put it past Kadokawa to troll us YET AGAIN.

In all seriousness though, is there truth in the scuttlebutt that what we'll get is essentially Season 1 + 12 additional episodes, all scrambled together again?
I've said this before, but...

The problem with scrambling the Vol. 4 episodes is that the Vol. 4 arc relies almost entirely on the reader not knowing the outcome of the events.

General consensus is that Vol. 4 is easily the best Haruhi novel of all, and it's also my personal second favorite. It deserves a faithful, great adaptation to really shine, and although I have faith in KyoAni's abilities as a studio, I wouldn't put it past them to scramble the episodes without regards to character development or plot.

In addition, most of the stories that come after Vol. 4 rely on it in some way, particularly Vol. 7, so...
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Old 2009-03-11, 12:51   Link #957
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The scrambling would work if everything scrambled in was stuff from before Vol. 4. Most of the suggested material to be thrown in is from before, with only Snowy Mountain being from after. That they could leave to the end, but then we still have no clue what they are doing, or how far they intend to go in the series outside of Vol. 4.
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Old 2009-03-11, 13:06   Link #958
Kaisos Erranon
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The scrambling would work if everything scrambled in was stuff from before Vol. 4. Most of the suggested material to be thrown in is from before, with only Snowy Mountain being from after. That they could leave to the end, but then we still have no clue what they are doing, or how far they intend to go in the series outside of Vol. 4.
The only stories that take place before Vol. 4 are BLR (1 episode) Endless Eight (I only see 1 episode, though they could do two), and Sighs (3 at most, it's a short book.)

Vol. 4 is like 5 episodes at most. That's about 10-11 episodes.

Huh, that leaves two for Snow Mountain and Where Did the Cat Go?. That actually works. Though they'd be skipping out on LOVER...
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Old 2009-03-11, 17:29   Link #959
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Question...

I looked it up on google... didn't look hard enough at the time I guess, but what was the reason they (cancelled eh?) stopped showing Haruhi, when the fandom was great, everyone loved the show (ignoring all you haters :P), and it was heavily advertised enough to make ANYONE watch it?

I then heard somewhere they were going to do a second season based upon the 4th Light Novel, but then it all stopped all a sudden.... >_>

So besides Haruhi-chan and Nyoron Churuya-san which came out recently, is there going to be a second season sometime???
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Old 2009-03-11, 17:34   Link #960
Kaisos Erranon
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So besides Haruhi-chan and Nyoron Churuya-san which came out recently, is there going to be a second season sometime???
This is the question. EVERYONE. Has been asking for THREE YEARS.


We don't know any more than you do right now. =P

Wait until April to see.
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