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View Poll Results: Toradora! - Episode 23 Rating
Perfect 10 86 50.89%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 52 30.77%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 16 9.47%
7 out of 10 : Good 8 4.73%
6 out of 10 : Average 3 1.78%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 0.59%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 3 1.78%
Voters: 169. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-03-12, 14:10   Link #81
typhonsentra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fish eric View Post
Why is everyone using spoiler tags? It was decided last week as per the rules that once an episode's RAW has been released there is no longer any need for spoiler tags.

Spoiler for toradora:
Spoiler:
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Old 2009-03-12, 14:11   Link #82
fish eric
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Quote:
Originally Posted by typhonsentra View Post
Spoiler:
Spoiler for toradora:
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Old 2009-03-12, 14:12   Link #83
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
That's is all up to you to believe. But it doesnt mean that others have to share your views.

I know what it is just as much as you do. That the content of our knowledge is different - it may be true, but it doesn't really put you into the position to tell others what romance comedy is as it is, just like with any type of tagging, vague. You simply do not posses the knowledge to tell what is and what is not romance comedy to others.
So I'm ignorant then?

Great defense there bro, great defense. Tell me, were you in your high school's debating club? Because you're so talented at coming up with rebuttals, you must have been.

I suppose YOU have the knowledge to tell people what to think?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
And not romance is in the eye of beholder as well, try to not forget that.
Okay. I can't even say anything to this. I honestly can't.


Okay, I have to at least say SOMETHING...

See, a successful and sound argument isn't "You're wrong", it's "You're wrong, here's some reasons WHY." That, or sheer sarcasm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wistfulloner View Post
It definitely wasn't planned.
Right then. I was wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SageGaiGar View Post
I think romantic dramedy's a better description of Toradora.
I'd argue that the "romantic" part of "romantic comedy" covers the "drama" bit fairly well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
Officially, the publishers call Toradora "超弩級ラブコメ" (Chou Dokyuu lovecome)
超弩級 is originally a battleship class "Super Dreadnaught"
But in recent times, it's sometimes used to describe something that's more like "Super duper"
Lovecome is romance comedy, of course.
"Super Dreadnought Love Comedy" finally makes sense now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
Lol just because they produce tags it doesn't mean that those tags are always matching it. Some can question if Toradora is a seinen/shounen to begin with. I saw some arguments that it is shoujo with male as a hero, even if officially it is a seinen, it is quite different from lets say ZnT.
It's shonen with shoujo elements/plot devices/female perspective. Still shonen.

And I think the creators would know what genre their work fits in.
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Old 2009-03-12, 14:16   Link #84
Ryuou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathkillz View Post
I don't know what to think about what just happened...
Spoiler:

Yeah, Minori was kind of dangerously scary this episode. It would match Ryuji's external appearance but it wouldn't go well with his maiden heart. I might be a little worried for whatever ghosts she comes across later on (as the Ryuji pair is all but dead as of late).
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Old 2009-03-12, 14:25   Link #85
Kijuto
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Has anyone discovered a place to watch this episode subbed yet? Its still not up on Youtube.
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Old 2009-03-12, 14:33   Link #86
Frostshocker
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Has anyone discovered a place to watch this episode subbed yet? Its still not up on Youtube.
i guess a few more hours/days Coalguys havent got it on their site yet
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Old 2009-03-12, 14:34   Link #87
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Originally Posted by Kijuto View Post
Has anyone discovered a place to watch this episode subbed yet? Its still not up on Youtube.
Usually pops up late into Thursday (the youtube subs), so it should be up in a few hours. I don't think anyone else has put up subs for it, at least not in English.
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Old 2009-03-12, 15:04   Link #88
Ryuou
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Quote:
Has anyone discovered a place to watch this episode subbed yet? Its still not up on Youtube.
No not yet. The norm seems to be late Thursday or Friday for subs. The ones that are already talking about the episode just watched the raws or maybe a Chinese sub (which seems to be really fast).
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Old 2009-03-12, 15:16   Link #89
fish eric
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its nice being able to watch

weds - raw
thurs - youtube sub
friday - coalguys sub

3 days of toradora
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Old 2009-03-12, 15:55   Link #90
Darknemo2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Tell me, were you in your high school's debating club? Because you're so talented at coming up with rebuttals, you must have been.
I never was,. I doubt our school had any after class activities or clubs other than basketaball. At least for boys. Oh yeah there was soccer club where we drank beer and smoked, but that doesn't count. Its lithuania. basketball is our religion, even if it amkes other club activities suffer.

As for the rebuttals - i blame it on the philosophy. I am master of philosophy after all, so I guess it comes from there.

Quote:
I suppose YOU have the knowledge to tell people what to think?
Yeah, philsophers like to think that. That they are wiser than others even if straight to the eye they say - noo I am silly little Socrates. But in truth most philsophers were stuck up self-centric bastards that hated when one objected them.

Personally, I do not think I know to tell what the truth is, I just know that someones signle opinion is never right, and thats what you are trying to throw at - your own personal view as if a truth, which is fine as long as you don't start poking it under others' noses, as if forcing it to others, which i feel you do.

Quote:
See, a successful and sound argument isn't "You're wrong", it's "You're wrong, here's some reasons WHY." That, or sheer sarcasm.
Thats a good thought, too bad that you rarely follow it yourself.

Quote:
I'd argue that the "romantic" part of "romantic comedy" covers the "drama" bit fairly well.
Romance isnt always the drama, nor is drama always romance. Thats why there are different genres for romance and for drama. You ahve to look at the situation. inukami is also a romantic comedy but the drama bit is... well lets say very different compared to Toradora.

Quote:
It's shonen with shoujo elements/plot devices/female perspective. Still shonen.
Or it could be called to be a 'shoujo with shounen elements/plot devices/male perspective'. You are clinging to tags too much in this case. Toradora is very hard to define thats why those that call it a shounen with shoujo elements and a shoujo with shounen elements are right.

When you take such series and compare it to series which are clearly a seinen/shounen you can see the difference.

Quote:
And I think the creatoirs would know what genre their work fits in.
Actually, creators themselves rarely do the tagging. Its the editors that usually do that. Those few authors that I know personally, hate when their work is tagged (though understand it to be a necessarily evil). But editors can do many things and not always they are right.
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Old 2009-03-12, 16:06   Link #91
Janifuu
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gg... what is the purpose of getting all philosophical over the stories category? I didn't know the genre in which the stories creator labeled herself was made to be "perceptible by ones opinion."

Writer: This story in which I am creating will be labeled as a romantic comedy, because thats exactly what I will write it to be. It's my story afterall.
Reader: It's YOUR story but I don't want to classify it as a romantic comedy for MY own personal reasons, sorry.

I suppose that makes sense. >_>
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Old 2009-03-12, 16:23   Link #92
Darknemo2000
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Well the question is did the author labelled the stories herself or did the editors do that.

Are you really sure she wrote with "I will make a shiounen" on her mind? Did she tell you herself? As far as I know in creative process the tagging tend to be rather lose and then authors suffer from the editors that still need to do the tagging and have a specific genre to match. There are teh requirements but it doesn't mean that author writes following those specific requirements and sometimes have to as russians say 'padagnat' the result a little so taht it would look like it matches the requirements.

Don't know if this happened with toradora author though. If you do, and she said so, then my musings are wrong. But so far from those my friends that do writing, it is not as simple as just always having a specific tagging and then matching a writing on it.

There is a difference. Not to mention that authors understanding of what romantic comedy is, may be very different from others.

Like lets say author identifies book as comedy, but the tag is still rather vague and you may feel that it was actually tragedy. Like our authors book about his experience in Nazi's concentration camp - basically it is comedy but the things they talk about are barely comical. Not exactly tragicomedy either... In same cases tags leave it tio be very vague and not really telling of what the thing is about.

Sometimes work really matches the tag, but Toradora is something different that is hard to place into tags just like that, even if you are forced to do, to present it to the market, it doesn't mean that those tags do any good to your work, if it is a good work.
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Old 2009-03-12, 16:24   Link #93
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janifuu View Post
Writer: This story in which I am creating will be labeled as a romantic comedy, because thats exactly what I will write it to be. It's my story afterall.
Reader: It's YOUR story but I don't want to classify it as a romantic comedy for MY own personal reasons, sorry.
This is exactly how some people think. Which is very, very sad.

I don't want to become a writer if I'm going to have jackasses like that reading my works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
I never was,. I doubt our school had any after class activities or clubs other than basketaball. At least for boys. Oh yeah there was soccer club where we drank beer and smoked, but that doesn't count. Its lithuania. basketball is our religion, even if it amkes other club activities suffer.

As for the rebuttals - i blame it on the philosophy. I am master of philosophy after all, so I guess it comes from there.
Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god.


I just can't. I can't deal with this anymore. I'm going to crawl into a corner and cry if this keeps up. I just can't do this anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
Are you really sure she wrote with "I will make a shiounen" on her mind? Did she tell you herself? As far as I know in creative process the tagging tend to be rather lose and then authors suffer from the editors that still need to do the tagging and have a specific genre to match. There are teh requirements but it doesn't mean that author writes following those specific requirements and sometimes have to as russians say 'padagnat' the result a little so taht it would look like it matches the requirements.
I'm almost certain she refers to the story as a lovcom in her Author's Notes, but I could be wrong.
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Old 2009-03-12, 16:33   Link #94
Darknemo2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
I just can't. I can't deal with this anymore. I'm going to crawl into a corner and cry if this keeps up. I just can't do this anymore.
What is it? If my spelling errors sorry, I am never anal about grammar or spelling. Are you?

Or is it something else you don't like?

Quote:
I'm almost certain she refers to the story as a lovcom in her Author's Notes, but I could be wrong.
Well more importantly can you tell if the tagging came before the writing and writing was done always following this tag, or was the writing free and tagging came only after?
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Old 2009-03-12, 16:36   Link #95
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
Or is it something else you don't like?
If you can't tell, it's fine. Whatever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
Well more importantly can you tell if the tagging came before the writing and writing was done always following this tag, or was the writing free and tagging came only after?
Well, you can't know. But it really doesn't matter. Because Toradora IS a lovcom.
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Old 2009-03-12, 16:39   Link #96
Darknemo2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Well, you can't know. But it really doesn't matter. Because Toradora IS a lovcom.
There is difference. Because one way you are really paying attention to the tag and tag really gives out the information, in other case tag becomes just a 'must' product simply because the author has to classify the work, even if that chosen rag is vague compared to the content.
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Old 2009-03-12, 16:45   Link #97
Miles Teg
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Can we go back to discuss Episode 23.

And Toradora IS a lovecom
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Old 2009-03-12, 16:54   Link #98
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Can we go back to discuss Episode 23.

And Toradora IS a lovecom
Speaking of which, part one and two of the Youtube subs are out. Awaiting part 3.

Last edited by (o^^)-o*(x_x)*; 2009-03-12 at 17:13.
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Old 2009-03-12, 17:26   Link #99
Deathkillz
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Correction, Toradora WAS a lovecom before it turned into a serious/drama/angst fest
Now whatever the characters says seem to have a lot of "spike" behind them than before.
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Old 2009-03-12, 17:36   Link #100
Kaisos Erranon
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Correction, Toradora WAS a lovecom before it turned into a serious/drama/angst fest
Why are you still watching this show.

Most lovcoms that aren't harem comedies end up like this eventually anyway.
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