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View Poll Results: Clannad - Episode 22 Rating
Perfect 10 211 60.81%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 49 14.12%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 23 6.63%
7 out of 10 : Good 20 5.76%
6 out of 10 : Average 19 5.48%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 3 0.86%
4 out of 10 : Poor 3 0.86%
3 out of 10 : Bad 2 0.58%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 3 0.86%
1 out of 10 : Painful 14 4.03%
Voters: 347. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-03-13, 13:11   Link #221
Ascaloth
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@Nosauz,

Trust me, I understand how you feel, but no need to keep ranting on ad nausem. It's not going to help you make your point further so much as it'll make you seem just like certain people when their favourite series gets trashed.

On another note, I've caught myself humming Dango Daikazoku two or three times tonight after watching this episode.
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Old 2009-03-13, 13:13   Link #222
Ruhisu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinny Riddle View Post

Kotomi: Wandering in the American wild wild west in her sports car. For a while I nearly couldn't recognize her looking this mature, and who would have thought she actually passed a driving test?
I think, nobody was expecting such a surprise

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinny Riddle View Post
Mei: OMG Mei-chan's HOT!
OMG indeed
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Old 2009-03-13, 13:20   Link #223
Nosauz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
@Nosauz,

Trust me, I understand how you feel, but no need to keep ranting on ad nausem. It's not going to help you make your point further so much as it'll make you seem just like certain people when their favourite series gets trashed.

On another note, I've caught myself humming Dango Daikazoku two or three times tonight after watching this episode.
yep your absolutely right, my ranting was just a little combination of humilation I just suffered in a CS scrim and I just kind of could only see red after reading some posts. It's just I feel like projecting what you want on to a story is pointless because then that story isn't as meaningful as it was, because your really not reading/viewing the story because it follows what you believe, you follow the story because you want to see what the author has created, and when the end is clearly in view to say because it doesn't match your projection to rag on the story makes absoultely no sense. If I wanted to create my own end for a whole bunch of anime/manga i could but the reason why I as a viewer watched anime/manga is to get the story from the author not what I wanted. Think of Arabian Nights, as Sharazah is telling the stories to the Sultan, he could envision the stories as he sees fit but he wanted to hear the portrayal of these tales from her not his own imagination. By projecting our own feelings on to the work, not only clouds our judgements but it also devalues the authors importance which is essential to story telling.

I'm skeptical enough when it comes to the news so I just feel that giving anime more room to work with is important when watching a series or else the viewer will never be satisfied from any work.
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Old 2009-03-13, 13:21   Link #224
Kuroyuki
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Very good ending, and told a lot from the way they chose to execute it.

I especially like the fact that they went to visit Tomoya's grandmother, since it is confirmation that Tomoya did go to visit his father is the ending. When I first heard of the fact they they would go back and have Nagisa survive, I was initally worried that Tomoya's family would be a loose end that they'd forget to deal with. Good to see they proved me wrong.

The end portion with Fuuka and her sister was great. I thought it was pointless, but a nice anticlimatic way to allow us to forget all the tension from the previous episodes.

-K
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Old 2009-03-13, 13:40   Link #225
velvet
"with you, happiness"
 
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First and Last.



If I ever had a chance to meet this person in real life,

I would love to have a deathmatch :Heart:

Next.

Repped. Insightful, and excellent choice of words.

On topic.

Seeing this animated is turning me into a fanboy.

I was thinking on which one should I replay 1st. CLANNAD or Tsukihime.
I need to meet Ushio again, apparently.
After that I can die happily.


Edit:Preview.

Official Another Story Clannad: Hikari Mimamoru Sakamichi de.
光見守る坂道で Chapter 1?

Masaka?!
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Last edited by velvet; 2009-03-13 at 13:50. Reason: I knew I forget something
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Old 2009-03-13, 13:42   Link #226
Kaioshin Sama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinny Riddle View Post

Regardless of what you think of the characters or the ending, you have to admit that Clannad (After Story) is successful in conveying that kind of life as realistically as possible.
No I don't.

And I still have to raise Mai Hime as an example of a supernatural world where such a deus ex ending was possible and even forseeable thanks to everything we've seen before and where people still got upset because it damaged the initial themes of the series by bringing characters back to life. I don't see why it should be any different for Clannad when one considers it as a convolution of themes.

Seriously why the sudden defense of this sort of ending event when it's been a major issue for other shows this past year. I'll raise another example, Nunally turning up alive in Code Geass with a perfectly valid explanation that was also shown to us in the episodes in question where it was relevant, and people still had a huge issue with it. And this wasn't even a convolution of themes or somebody literally being allowed to come back to lie, this was just a fakeout and it resulted in some serious butthurt. In contrast I suppose the only thing you can say as far as Clannad goes is that because Key has pulled this gimmicky sort of happy ending in the past and that somehow that makes it more acceptable and forseeable.

I'll never understand what makes this ending so okay and so amazingly perfect in so many other people's eyes compared to other thematically convoluted endings. I'm going to just have to chalk it up to it being KeyAni again and the usual insta-praise and cries of "masterpiece" that go with this reality, because if this were any other story by any other companies I could not forsee this kind of ending escaping without at least some scorn.

Last edited by Kaioshin Sama; 2009-03-13 at 13:59.
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Old 2009-03-13, 13:47   Link #227
Sheba
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He was talking about the life after the choice, the relationship between wife and husband then father and daughter, not the ending. He did say "as realistically as possible". This means, as close to reality that an anime where comatose girls send their ghosts to school, cats turns into shoutas and suitcase surviving a plane crash get passed around the world until it reaches an orphan can afford it.

How the hell are you denying that? What do YOU need more? If you just say that for the sake of "being indie and different", I'll answer with my middle finger and say I can be part of the herd for all I care. Because I want to enjoy a story for what it was. And that was what Clannad did to me.
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Old 2009-03-13, 13:52   Link #228
Nochgo
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I thought it was THE best ending of anime I ever watched, though there surely is bias due to how much I like this anime.
The completeness I felt even as I watched the ending was such an amazing sensation. Throughout the episode, electricity when through my body so many times (know what I mean?), especially when I finally understood the illusionary world. I won't really comment on the content of the episode, I don't really want to; maybe because of the beauty of it all. And other people have already done that in detail. I have never before thought of wishing to be able to rank higher than 10/10, higher than perfect, but I do so now.

I feel ever so satisfied.

Until my emotions for this anime calm down to normal levels, this anime shall be the greatest anime in my book.
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Old 2009-03-13, 13:55   Link #229
dgreater1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
He was talking about the relationship between wife and husband then father and daughter, not the ending. He did say "as realistically as possible". This means, as close to reality that an anime where comatose girls send their ghosts to school, cats turns into shoutas and suitcase survive a plane crash get passed around the world until it reaches an orphan can afford it.

How the hell are you denying that? What do YOU need more? If you just say that for the sake of "being indie and different", I'll answer with my middle finger and say I can be part of the herd for all I care. Because I want to enjoy a story for what it was. And that was what Clannad did to me.
Don't worry, he's just showing his troll bait.

I'm an optimistic person so I don't close my mind to every possibility that can happen. I mean, weird or not, if it's possible to exist, then it exist. If it's possible to happen, the it can happen.
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Old 2009-03-13, 14:09   Link #230
Kinny Riddle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgreater1 View Post
Don't worry, he's just showing his troll bait.
And I was wondering where our friend Kaioshin had disappeared off to the past few weeks, seems like he's been saving up on plenty of ammo just for this, having a go at the series with every opportunity he gets. And the ending has provided him with ample supply to go all guns blazing and doing what he does best whenever it involves Kyo-Ani: bashing them.

Now don't get the wrong idea, I'm through getting worked up with his methodical bashing of Kyo-Ani ages ago, my time is better spent elsewhere, but it doesn't mean I hate him at all. Hell, I've even pos-repped him numerous times. So no offense, okay?

VRMN, just noticed your post, most informative. Mind if I use it for the pending "Ending Explained" thread please?
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=152


Oh, and I forgot to mention: Kyo-Ani has given faces to side characters that would otherwise be unseen, who could forget the epic trap that is Shima-kun? Though their most impressive side characters has got to be Nishina and Sugisaka, for some reason, everytime I see these two cute girls together, I think "yuri". There's even a DVD volume cover with them all cuddly. In the epilogue, they're even living together. What're they trying to insinuate? lol

(Please ignore the rabid yuri-delusional ramblings of this user. )
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Old 2009-03-13, 14:10   Link #231
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
I'll never understand what makes this ending so okay and so amazingly perfect in so many other people's eyes compared to other thematically convoluted endings. I'm going to just have to chalk it up to it being KeyAni again and the usual insta-praise and cries of "masterpiece" that go with this reality, because if this were any other story by any other companies I could not forsee this kind of ending escaping without at least some scorn.
So you see it as your duty to destroy other people's enjoyment of a series you personally don't like, in the name of "fairness".

I see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinny Riddle View Post
Oh, and I forgot to mention: Kyo-Ani has given faces to side characters that would otherwise be unseen, who could forget the epic trap that is Shima-kun? Though their most impressive side characters has got to be Nishina and Sugisaka, for some reason, everytime I see these two cute girls together, I think "yuri". There's even a DVD volume cover with them all cuddly. In the epilogue, they're even living together. What're they trying to insinuate? lol
I wouldn't be surprised if they WERE gay. Sugisaka DID give out those vibes back in the first season...
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Old 2009-03-13, 14:15   Link #232
Sheba
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
So you see it as your duty to destroy other people's enjoyment of a series you personally don't like, in the name of "fairness".
The more people pretend to have changed, the more they actually stayed the same.
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Old 2009-03-13, 14:17   Link #233
Kaioshin Sama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
He was talking about the life after the choice, the relationship between wife and husband then father and daughter, not the ending. He did say "as realistically as possible". This means, as close to reality that an anime where comatose girls send their ghosts to school, cats turns into shoutas and suitcase surviving a plane crash get passed around the world until it reaches an orphan can afford it.

How the hell are you denying that? What do YOU need more? If you just say that for the sake of "being indie and different", I'll answer with my middle finger and say I can be part of the herd for all I care. Because I want to enjoy a story for what it was. And that was what Clannad did to me.
Even then it's not quite so realistic. Things aren't always that happy in the end for families and dead mothers don't come back to life to be there for their daughters after some contract with the town they live in is fulfilled. My Neigbours The Yamada's, that would be a better example of something that portrays family life somewhat realistically. Clannad is no better at portraying family life accurately than Leave it To Beaver or The Brady Bunch, it's just good at portraying an idealistic family life. Though if that's what Kinny meant then I can accept that.

And on some levels I do enjoy Clannad for what it is, yet on other levels I cannot, this is again why I can't give this series anything even approaching a masterpiece nod. I know I've mentioned this before, but 10/10's don't come easy from me and my final evaluations mix hits and misses in a way that seems dead as a far as anime reviewing goes these days. If you want me to leave you with a hit then I felt the show was very prettily animated compared to your average VN adaptation. In fact it left your average VN adaptation in the dust animation wise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinny Riddle View Post
And I was wondering where our friend Kaioshin had disappeared off to the past few weeks, seems like he's been saving up on plenty of ammo just for this, having a go at the series with every opportunity he gets. And the ending has provided him with ample supply to go all guns blazing and doing what he does best whenever it involves Kyo-Ani: bashing them.
Son, if I was merely looking for ammo to fire off at Kyoani then Munto TV is like the equivalent of them handing me an Ideon Gun. I'm just trying to have a discussion here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

So you see it as your duty to destroy other people's enjoyment of a series you personally don't like, in the name of "fairness".

I see.
The only way what I am saying could diminsh people's enjoyment of the series is if people acknowledge that their is indeed some truth to what I am saying and change their minds about the ending. Like I said though, I'm just trying to have a discussion and to add a different take on this show that isn't just 10/10 perfect thank you KeyAni may I have another. Though I think you should just be thankful that I am not like some of the people you'll meet on the Gundam boards I frequent who prejudge everything and wouldn't have even given this show a chance. I could just as easily have written it off as a moeblob parade after the first episode like I've seen others do, but I stuck it out and gave it it's due and was actually far more impressed then I ever though I would be. Still not enough to grovel before it, but impressed by some aspects of it nonetheless.

Last edited by Kaioshin Sama; 2009-03-13 at 14:34.
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Old 2009-03-13, 14:23   Link #234
Ithekro
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As with all ending, it depends greatly on how the outcome was handled. If the ending is handled well, it doesn't feel as forced or convoluted, but more feels like it should be this way.

The other convoluted endings you refer to seem to fit in the catagory of poorly executed use of the convoluted ending. If the ending is disjointed, in poor taste, or doesn't really playout all that well, it will get scornful treatment. If the ending works out because it fits in or feels deserved by the viewers, then it will mostly escape any sort of scorn.

This is just the nature of things.

Clannad comes off rather well as the feeling of "they deserved it" comes into play mixed with the shows themes and the ongoing use and explainations of the Imaginary World/Light Orbs/Town concept.
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Old 2009-03-13, 14:29   Link #235
Sheba
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
Even then it's not quite so realistic. Things aren't always that happy in the end for families and dead mothers don't come back to life to be there for their daughters after some contract with the town they live in is fulfilled.
Jun Maeda is deeply sorry you have kept your disbelief on.

Quote:
My Neigbours The Yamada's, that would be a better example of something that portrays family life somewhat realistically. Clannad is no better at portraying family life accurately than Leave it To Beaver or The Brady Bunch, it's just good at portraying an idealistic family life. Though if that's what Kinny meant then I can accept that.
Just like how Gundam is a joke when it comes to portray war, its grit, blood, guts and horror when compared to Platoon, Taegukgi or series like Band of Brothers.

Quote:
And on some levels I do enjoy Clannad for what it is, yet on other levels I cannot, this is again why I can't give this series anything even approaching a masterpiece nod. I know I've mentioned this before, but 10/10's don't come easy from me and my final evaluations mix hits and misses in a way that seems dead as a far as anime reviewing goes these days. If you want me to leave you with a hit then I felt the show was very prettily animated compared to your average VN adaptation. In fact it left your average VN adaptation in the dust animation wise.
I did not demand a 10/10. But when you see people being irked at you, ask yourself if it is not a fair deal when you get offended when others bash your shows. Whatever the reasons are.

EDIT:

I'll ask something:

When you typed all of that.

Have you actually WATCHED the anime? Or did you again draw your impressions from reading in blogs and anime forums, the very reason that got people annoyed at you in the past? Be honest about it.
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Old 2009-03-13, 14:30   Link #236
dgreater1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
Even then it's not quite so realistic. Things aren't always that happy in the end for families and dead mothers don't come back to life to be there for their daughters after some contract with the town they live in is fulfilled. My Neigbours The Yamada's, that would be a better example of something that portrays family life somewhat realistically. Clannad is no better at portraying family life accurately than Leave it To Beaver or The Brady Bunch, it's just good at portraying an idealistic family life. Though if that's what Kinny meant then I can accept that.

And on some levels I do enjoy Clannad for what it is, yet on other levels I cannot, this is again why I can't give this series anything even approaching a masterpiece nod. I know I've mentioned this before, but 10/10's don't come easy from me and my final evaluations mix hits and misses in a way that seems dead as a far as anime reviewing goes these days. If you want me to leave you with a hit then I felt the show was very prettily animated compared to your average VN adaptation. In fact it left your average VN adaptation in the dust animation wise.
You didn't understand at all.

Fact: Episode 21 is an END (PAD END)
Fact: Episode 22 is also an END (Alternative end that branch from Nagisa delivering Ushio.)

They didn't magically (poop) become alive. This is were you apply Theory of Everything+Magical blah blah (that you probably hate) here.

If you think they lived happily ever after. Then remember Fuuko's last message about "Happy things, and enjoyable thing will start now." (I'm a forgetful person so correct me if that's wrong)

She's not really saying everything will go well, because

FACT: Anything can go wrong in a seemingly flawless happy life.
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Old 2009-03-13, 14:35   Link #237
PNGO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgreater1 View Post
You didn't understand at all.

Fact: Episode 21 is an END (PAD END)
Fact: Episode 22 is also an END (Alternative end that branch from Nagisa delivering Ushio.)

Is this true? I though THIS was the real ending because of the thread
Episode 22 Discussion / Poll [END], but episode 21 doesn't say END.
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Old 2009-03-13, 14:42   Link #238
dgreater1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PNGO View Post
Is this true? I though THIS was the real ending because of the thread
Episode 22 Discussion / Poll [END], but episode 21 doesn't say END.
It actually means, the end of the series.

The two episodes left are just extra episodes. Like a filler but a meaningful (probably?) one.

Why do you think "TOMOYO AFTER" exist? It's a story that complete branches away from CLANNAD's After Story.

CLANNAD After Story is about Nagisa, Ushio and Tomoya, it's also known as "TOMOYA+NAGISA AFTER"
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Old 2009-03-13, 14:44   Link #239
velvet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PNGO View Post
Is this true? I though THIS was the real ending because of the thread
Episode 22 Discussion / Poll [END], but episode 21 doesn't say END.
VisualNovel wise.

The game ended (you return to title as episode 21 material ended).

You replay after story portion of the VN up 2 episode 16,

where you are now given a choice,
to call out to Nagisa. Ep 22 Material, start.
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Old 2009-03-13, 14:46   Link #240
PNGO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgreater1 View Post
It actually means, the end of the series.

The two episodes left are just extra episodes. Like a filler but a meaningful (probably?) one.

Why do you think "TOMOYO AFTER" exist? It's a story that complete branches away from CLANNAD's After Story.

CLANNAD After Story is about Nagisa, Ushio and Tomoya, it's also known as "TOMOYA+NAGISA AFTER"
But episode 21 can't be the real ending...
I mean it even says To be Continue at the end lol.
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