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View Poll Results: Toradora! - Episode 23 Rating
Perfect 10 86 50.89%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 52 30.77%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 16 9.47%
7 out of 10 : Good 8 4.73%
6 out of 10 : Average 3 1.78%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 0.59%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 3 1.78%
Voters: 169. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-03-17, 06:41   Link #301
Yukinokesshou
ドジ
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In a house
Quote:
Originally Posted by fish eric View Post
My pick for a masterpiece in the Romantic School Drama/comedy category

Clannad

I just finished the 2 seasons of Clannad tonight (i watched them over the last 3 days so i didn't have to wait each excruciating week for the next episode like i do with toradora).

What a great story. The first season was almost as funny as school rumble.
Two seasons of Clannad... a study in contrasts, eh?

Started with Toradora after the last Clannad episode. While Toradora's plot and themes are nowhere near Clannad's league, Taiga has quickly become one of my favourite anime characters.
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Old 2009-03-17, 07:46   Link #302
Peanutbutter
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Was rewatching ep 23 (I forgot how many times though. ) and the final scene made me thought of the following:

Taiga said she only wanted to make Minorin happy, but do you guys think that she also wanted to make Ryuuji happy? Is it possible to gauge or infer whose happiness matter to her more at that time, Minorin or Ryuuji? Minorin, Ryuuji or 50-50?
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Old 2009-03-17, 08:05   Link #303
typhonsentra
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I loved Eureka too (So good it made me watch Xam'd the whole way through, Eureka is one of the best I've seen.) but I would contest the category Clannad was placed in. Plenty of drama and a fair amount of comedy, not much romance of any kind to speak of unless you count a small handful of scenes of handholding.
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Old 2009-03-17, 08:52   Link #304
SageGaiGar
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Join Date: Sep 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by typhonsentra View Post
I loved Eureka too (So good it made me watch Xam'd the whole way through, Eureka is one of the best I've seen.) but I would contest the category Clannad was placed in. Plenty of drama and a fair amount of comedy, not much romance of any kind to speak of unless you count a small handful of scenes of handholding.
The romance in Clannad was wicked subtle. Almost (bah was) old fashioned. Close to what it's like here yet in Clannad... especially after story it was 'official'. And still nothing blantant really was shown.
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Old 2009-03-17, 10:39   Link #305
wistfulloner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peanutbutter003 View Post
Was rewatching ep 23 (I forgot how many times though. ) and the final scene made me thought of the following:

Taiga said she only wanted to make Minorin happy, but do you guys think that she also wanted to make Ryuuji happy? Is it possible to gauge or infer whose happiness matter to her more at that time, Minorin or Ryuuji? Minorin, Ryuuji or 50-50?
My guess is that both Taiga and Minori have never really thought of Ryuji being "happy" with their opposing ideas. They were too busy pushing him to each another.

More like, he's just a "gift" of happiness, but the "gift" was never expected to be happy...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neki Ecko View Post
I think that Toradora! is changing the way how you do romantic comedy/drama, even know that Clannad is better because of animation budget or being established already. Maybe Toradora! would be a masterpiece or game changer when it comes down to it, in the future. Besides I look at Anime or anything on TV for the story, not the visuals.
I definitely feel the same way as you, but there's a low chance of that happening. Without exposure, a masterpiece is as good as being never created at all. Toradora might become one of those backroom animes which are epic, but never recognized.
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Old 2009-03-17, 12:49   Link #306
typhonsentra
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Before that exchange I always thought Taiga was more concerned with Ryuuji's feelings for Minori. From their conversations I don't even feel like Taiga's ever even directly asked her about it, which is kinda strange when you think about it. Meanwhile she "Knows" (Not really anymore) that Ryuuji loves Minori and that she's hindered his happiness.
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Old 2009-03-17, 13:11   Link #307
fish eric
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukinokesshou View Post
Two seasons of Clannad... a study in contrasts, eh?

Started with Toradora after the last Clannad episode. While Toradora's plot and themes are nowhere near Clannad's league, Taiga has quickly become one of my favourite anime characters.


I dont understand the study in contrasts remark. But Toradora does have excellent characters better than some of the clannad characters. Taiga and Ami I think really shine in this series compared to Ryou or Tomoyo from Clannad.

However nobody is better
no one more kawaii
ichiban desu



some people said they found her annoying. i found her endearing.


all this is IMO and IME only.
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Old 2009-03-17, 13:31   Link #308
Ryuou
進む道は武士道のみ
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Dying to get back to Japan (but currently near Chicago)
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by fish eric View Post
Hehe i already asked once, but ill ask again so you know i was serious.

what would you consider a masterpiece?

how about give me one pick in the romantic school drama/comedy genre

and then one more in an "open" category.
Hm, I thought you just made the remark to spite my statement about Toradora! not being a masterpiece. Sorry for not picking up that you were seriously asking. But since it'll just aid in a derailing of the thread, I'll post my answers on your page.

Quote:
some people said they found her annoying. i found her endearing.
She annoyed me when she kept popping back up out of nowhere, but other than that (i.e. her initial arc and AS) I liked her.
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Old 2009-03-17, 13:48   Link #309
CaptGloval
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ToraDora! also had the misfortune of appearing after shows like Zero's Familiar.

Anyway, fans should have more faith in their object of fanaticism, and use that faith for action that will contribute to that object's greatness. For instance, that Bakatsuki translation of the light novel really needs some editing.

Anyway, for the episode discussion I'd like to suggest a study on the three "bitch fights" we had in ToraDora! this year, which basically involves three characters: an aggressor forcing an admission from someone about her feelings for a certain guy.

Thusly: (aggressor -> receiver -> guy)
Taiga -> Sumire -> Kitamura
Ami -> Minori -> Ryuuji
Minori -> Taiga -> Ryuuji

A proper analysis could answer the question on hypocrisy debated about earlier.
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Old 2009-03-17, 13:57   Link #310
Forbin
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I still am hoping for a harem ending.
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Last edited by Forbin; 2009-03-17 at 13:57. Reason: wrong place
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Old 2009-03-17, 14:24   Link #311
Kaisos Erranon
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wistfulloner View Post
That's because Toradora doesn't look half as good as MoHS in terms of animation quality, and is (if I'm not wrong) not as hyped.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neki Ecko View Post
But you have to remember that nobody knew about Toradora! except some of the people that have already read the novel and it wasnt over-hyped like Haruhi or already established like Clannad.
Uh, guys, Haruhi was practically unknown before it was animated, (At least as well known as Toradora was) and it wasn't hyped at all.

Just a small announcement that KyoAni would be animating a relatively successful light novel series.

And then the first episode came out and the Internet exploded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin View Post
I still am hoping for a harem ending.
Good luck with that, man.
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Old 2009-03-17, 14:32   Link #312
BetoJR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Just a small announcement that KyoAni would be animating a relatively successful light novel series.
I'd think the thing with Haruhi's pre-release fame was more related to the animation company, incidentally. Not many people get excited about JC Staff productions, these days... but Kyoto Animation? They were extremely hot, right after those FMP seasons they did (and Air, I guess). The rest is, well... history, as they say.
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Old 2009-03-17, 14:34   Link #313
Kelvets
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fish eric View Post
Eureka 7


oh man what a good series. i watched it in a marathon session in 1 sitting. I finally went to sleep when it was done and i watched it all in one sitting again.
Eureka SeveN has 50 episodes. Assuming each episode is lasts roughly 20 mins (since you probably skip the opening and ending songs), you can watch 3 episodes per hour if you don't stop to go to the bathroom, eat, etc.

50 episodes/3 = 16.6 = roughly 17 hours total

So let me get this straight: You watched Eureka SeveN for 17 hours, went to sleep, woke up and repeated it the next day? =S

Damn, some people have way too much free time...
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Old 2009-03-17, 14:49   Link #314
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BetoJR View Post
I'd think the thing with Haruhi's pre-release fame was more related to the animation company, incidentally. Not many people get excited about JC Staff productions, these days... but Kyoto Animation? They were extremely hot, right after those FMP seasons they did (and Air, I guess). The rest is, well... history, as they say.
I remember reading on several blogs, a long time ago, that no one had expected Haruhi to be any good.

And of course, no one expected it to take off in the way it did, either.
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Old 2009-03-17, 14:52   Link #315
fish eric
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvets View Post
Eureka SeveN has 50 episodes. Assuming each episode is lasts roughly 20 mins (since you probably skip the opening and ending songs), you can watch 3 episodes per hour if you don't stop to go to the bathroom, eat, etc.

50 episodes/3 = 16.6 = roughly 17 hours total

So let me get this straight: You watched Eureka SeveN for 17 hours, went to sleep, woke up and repeated it the next day? =S

Damn, some people have way too much free time...
yes i did that. i got really depressed last year and didn't go to work for a month. i had some issues with my health going on at the time. really it was more of an escape than anything if that makes sense.

my basic goal for each day was to keep myself buzzed/occupied until i could goto sleep. after E7 i spend the next few days watching all 18 or so Zatoichi movies.

sorry if that is TMI
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Old 2009-03-17, 19:14   Link #316
Avacado Burger
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Join Date: Aug 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
I remember reading on several blogs, a long time ago, that no one had expected Haruhi to be any good.

And of course, no one expected it to take off in the way it did, either.
Yeah, I don't know where all this "pre-hype" comes from. About 3 episodes in its airing, I was at an anime convention and NO ONE had even heard of it. The people I found later who did watch it gave up after scratching their heads too hard at episode 00.
Honestly, it wasn't until the series ended that people started talking about Melancholy.

Point in point, Toradora is too good to be collecting dust in obscurity and deserves its share of popularity.
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Old 2009-03-17, 19:26   Link #317
typhonsentra
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Not really. I didn't watch it until long after it ended but I remember seeing each new episode at the top of the most viewed for the day Youtube page throughout it's run and the other forum I visited (Gaming-Age) was loaded with avatars following the premiere. It was very popular.

I also don't really know much about Haruhi from before the anime premiered but it already had seven volumes released and two separate attempts at a manga along with awards so I imagine it had a sizable following already. The same goes for Toradora although to a lesser extent.
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Old 2009-03-17, 19:29   Link #318
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by typhonsentra View Post
I also don't really know much about Haruhi from before the anime premiered but it already had seven volumes released and two separate attempts at a manga along with awards so I imagine it had a sizable following already. The same goes for Toradora although to a lesser extent.
No one talked about it.

It wasn't until the anime that Haruhi became as popular as it is/was, and became a part of the public consciousness of anime viewers.

Too bad it's rather a joke now though.
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Old 2009-03-17, 19:39   Link #319
rg4619
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Haruhi had strong gimmicks going for it, such as the ending dance, expensive animation, and story structure.....which attracted attention and (in the case of the dance) fostered community. It says something when Yutaka Yamamoto was more acclaimed for his marketing prowess than the actual merits of his work.

A relatively standard approach like Toradora! can't compete.

Quote:
It wasn't until the anime that Haruhi became as popular as it is/was, and became a part of the public consciousness of anime viewers.
Yeah, the light novels were widely regarded as unexceptional (although relatively popular), if not outright mediocre. OTOH, the Toradora! novels were already acclaimed before the anime premiered.
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Old 2009-03-17, 19:44   Link #320
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by rg4619 View Post
Yeah, the light novels were widely regarded as unexceptional (although relatively popular), if not outright mediocre. OTOH, the Toradora! novels were already acclaimed before the anime premiered.
Funny, I consider the Haruhi novels considerably better than the show, and on par with Toradora...

Problem is that the Haruhi novels are clearly intended to be much longer running than Toradora, and so stretch out the character development a lot more...

And the sad part of that is that we haven't seen a book for two years.
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