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Old 2009-03-17, 09:23   Link #1081
Sinestra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SageGaiGar View Post
"Absence makes the heart grow fonder"

Exactly. I have a feeling we may have 'attack of the yuki' with the next season. Or she does give him up and sink into the same world as Rina.

I wouldn't mind him ending up with no one at all. Though I think Rina could keep him in check possibly. I see them both walking a similiar path at the moment, in trying to deal with their respective stresses.
Touya has already shown that he crumbles under stress and seeks comfort to relieve it hence his daily trist with Yayoi. The good news they are always in the car if we ever see them go to a hotel then hes going to do the deed. Rina possibly be another person he could distract himself with if she shows she's willing to comfort him and he would be comforting her as well since its obvious shes lonely because of the path she chose.
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Old 2009-03-17, 09:47   Link #1082
SageGaiGar
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Originally Posted by Sinestra View Post
Touya has already shown that he crumbles under stress and seeks comfort to relieve it hence his daily trist with Yayoi. The good news they are always in the car if we ever see them go to a hotel then hes going to do the deed. Rina possibly be another person he could distract himself with if she shows she's willing to comfort him and he would be comforting her as well since its obvious shes lonely because of the path she chose.
Right, the two of them finding comfort in each other seems to be the direction the plot's taking, though with that expression she gave at the end of the last episode might not.

Though it may the the push into the abyss. He's not quite as serious, Yuki's not quite as serious. (They are serious in not 'bothering' each other.) So it could be her turn to 'meddle' less between them and make some sort of move.

The title of the next episode is quite telling. 'waiting is the worst'.
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Old 2009-03-17, 11:16   Link #1083
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Deconstructing Yayoi

I had some down time at work today so i have been re watching the episodes but only the scenes involving Yayoi because her character really bothers me, her motivations her state of mind everything about her. What i tried to do was watch her mannerisms, what she says more than what she actually does and try to pull something from the little we know about her.

When the whole situation with Yayoi and Touya began i think it truly was business after all Yayoi barely new Touya crushing a collage and bullying him would be easy by using a weapon all women are born with their sexuality. However, i feel its changed over time after all spending time with people changes you and even an ice queen might actually has a heart and needs under the frost.

We never see Yayoi with any other people in her private life which is not surprsing since her work is her life. With the exception of reading an occassional book and having coffee (at the same place Touya works Echos) we see nothing else of her. Right now i think Yayoi has discovered a way to relieve her frustrations and loneliness without actually straying from her initial purpose of supporting Yuki. So far the only emotion and it was ever so slight that we have seen has been her interacting with Touya. The one thing i can see in Yayoi's eyes is her lonliness it obvious everytime she is shown. Those eyes devoid of life face like a piece of marble never changing she seems lifeless like a doll. A sever case of loneliness and detachment from emotion or interpersonal relationships would cause these traits. I realized that Yayoi is someone that Rina could become if given enough time say 5 or 6 years down the road.

In her mind what she is doing with Touya is for Yuki's sake but deep down does Yayoi feel she has found a kindred spirit? If she thinks this way in her mind there is no conflict of interest its effectivly killing two birds with one stone. She also knows that her secret is safe because Touya doesnt have the ballz to face Yuki. Silence is golden and information is power and Yayoi has both with Touya.

The change is ever so sudden over time and it might be missed becasue we always focused on other events surrounding the two. I cant say that Yayoi actually likes Touya but he is a way for her momentarily to have comfort and control while still doing her job its a sweet little arrangement. However,i do think on some level Yayoi thinks of Touya as HERS similar to how the band members were teasing Touya about being Rina's pet. Also, i feel her time with Touya is also responsible for part of her stance and very aggressive attitude towards Rina in episode 11. I kept wondering why it felt like Yayoi was protecting her turf and that turf would be Touya since Touya spends majority of his time with Rina now.

Im not sure if my theories are sound but after deconstructing her with the limited information we have this is what iv come up with. She has combined her job with her possible growing attachment to Touya they are one in the same now. I would bet money if Touya broke things off but the situation with him and Yuki stayed stagnant she would still initiate contact with him. That smile and kiss after she licked Touya's tears did not seem like a malicious one but it felt more like a smile of someone who could make her for a time forget the stalker, her loneliness and her past mistakes. Just as much as Touya is using her as a distraction she is using him as well and with his recent break down in the car Yayoi went to solidify his reliance on her by using physical means. She effectively made a move while Touya was at his most vulnerable which will only deepen the feeling he has to see and be near her even if he does not love her. Feelings are very tricky but Yayoi is obviously holding on to Touya tightly and its not just for her job if that was the case she would not keep seeing him since her primary goal has already been accomplished Touya and Yuki are not seeing each other and will not for a good while.

What do you guys think?
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Old 2009-03-17, 12:55   Link #1084
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I think otherwise and the thought of "loving Touya" may not have crossed Yayoi's mind at all. Like you've said "with her eyes devoid of life", emotions should be a term she is less familiar with let alone trying to understand nor to express it (hence the awkward situation we have here with her licking his tears since she simply does not know how to offer comfort to a person who is undergoing a mental breakdown). Certainly it was of nothing malicious but neither was it something done to please herself in such a situation as I still think that she doesn't know what "love" is and if you were to ask her if she loves Touya or not, she will be in a complete blind. "killing two birds with one stone" implies that she knows what she feels but I on the otherhand argue that she doesn't...the only thing she knows is how to use a female body to make the opposite sex listen, but even that I don't see any bad intentions in her since she knows no better ways to do so (being void of emotions as it were).
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Old 2009-03-17, 13:14   Link #1085
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I think otherwise and the thought of "loving Touya" may not have crossed Yayoi's mind at all. Like you've said "with her eyes devoid of life", emotions should be a term she is less familiar with let alone trying to understand nor to express it (hence the awkward situation we have here with her licking his tears since she simply does not know how to offer comfort to a person who is undergoing a mental breakdown). Certainly it was of nothing malicious but neither was it something done to please herself in such a situation as I still think that she doesn't know what "love" is and if you were to ask her if she loves Touya or not, she will be in a complete blind. "killing two birds with one stone" implies that she knows what she feels but I on the otherhand argue that she doesn't...the only thing she knows is how to use a female body to make the opposite sex listen, but even that I don't see any bad intentions in her since she knows no better ways to do so (being void of emotions as it were).

No i dont think she loves Touya (I thought i stated that) and i agree she probably could not identify with the emotion even if you asked her. But the fact the she even tried as awkward as it was to do something while Touya was having a break down shows that there is something more than just her job. She probably does not even know what it is but to me she rolled spending her make out sessions with Touya into her job with Yuki. After watching all her scenes again im starting to see somethings that i have missed before but they are very subtle. Yayoi is lonely this much im certain of and even if she does not know how to express it does not mean that something has not changed in her. I dont know i cant quite pin my finger on it but there is something there.
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Old 2009-03-17, 14:11   Link #1086
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Oh I understand that she "feels some unknown" when she was comforting Touya and certainly she has begun to change as a person compared to what she started off from, but at this point in time she just have yet to realise what "this feeling" actually is. She still sees that it is her job to keep Touya away from Yuki and to maintain that she has no choice but to offer herself as Yuki's replacement (which was the exchange term she gave to Touya)...this all still seems pretty normal to her as she has yet to know what she feels subconciously even if those rusty gears have already started turning in her heart. So when the time comes, it will be rather sudden just like how Touya brokedown here.
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Old 2009-03-17, 14:20   Link #1087
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I wonder if Misaki really loves Akira or if she is just using him to forget Touya . I really hope Misaki eventually break up with Akira because he is acting like a bitch. It seemed to me like she is already tired of being with him. It was funny how he used the same libne she used before when she wanted to get some alone time. I have seen this happening a lot, when the guy or girl just want to spend all the time with the person they wanted, and that person really didn't love the other person and eventually they break up.
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Old 2009-03-17, 14:28   Link #1088
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Akira is a little bitch, like Touya would (probably) say. But, then again, he was portrayed in exactly such a light ever since the beginning of the series, so...
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Old 2009-03-17, 14:39   Link #1089
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Akira is like a little lab dog...that is not even cute like my dog 0.0
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Old 2009-03-17, 15:31   Link #1090
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I thought the episode was solid except for the crying scene with Touya. I agree with many of the statements people have made about it, because it was executed poorly. I'm not saying that it did not seem like Touya was going through any sort of "stress" about his situation, but the lead up to his break down was just poor... He really was talking normally beforehand, well actually it was weird that he was even talking in the first place... Normally he kind of sits there silently.
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Old 2009-03-17, 16:48   Link #1091
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well actually it was weird that he was even talking in the first place... Normally he kind of sits there silently.
I really think that this was a way for him to cope with things, as you said, he usually just sit there.
He was talking about everything but what really was bothering him. The scene where Akira noticed something wrong but because Akira is in bitch mode he got mad instead showing concern.
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Old 2009-03-17, 18:45   Link #1092
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I really think that this was a way for him to cope with things, as you said, he usually just sit there.
He was talking about everything but what really was bothering him. The scene where Akira noticed something wrong but because Akira is in bitch mode he got mad instead showing concern.
Im actually tempted to bitch about Akira more than the cry-baby at this point. I have been trying to think if had a leg to stand on and nope i came up with nadda. I will have a good laugh when Misaki finally tells him how it is, she seemed to already be tired of his pressence as he follows her around like a dog begging for a treat.
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Old 2009-03-17, 20:13   Link #1093
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Oh I understand that she "feels some unknown" when she was comforting Touya and certainly she has begun to change as a person compared to what she started off from, but at this point in time she just have yet to realise what "this feeling" actually is. She still sees that it is her job to keep Touya away from Yuki and to maintain that she has no choice but to offer herself as Yuki's replacement (which was the exchange term she gave to Touya)...this all still seems pretty normal to her as she has yet to know what she feels subconciously even if those rusty gears have already started turning in her heart. So when the time comes, it will be rather sudden just like how Touya brokedown here.
I think Yayoi is slowing beginning to care for Touya too. She does take comfort in his company though. And yeah, the kissing is probably the only way she knows to comfort him. I don't think is complete devoid of all emotion, she is probably just inside her shell to a degree. Oh, the other thing I find funny is that Touya and Yuki were never that physical to begin with and here is Yayoi filling the gap Yuki has left physically. But she does seem to be listening to him more and more now.


I wonder if it would have been better to marathon this once its completely finished airing. Although there is a lot to take in and you need time to let it sink in.. the wait each week is nerve racking.
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Old 2009-03-17, 23:16   Link #1094
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Im actually tempted to bitch about Akira more than the cry-baby at this point. I have been trying to think if had a leg to stand on and nope i came up with nadda. I will have a good laugh when Misaki finally tells him how it is, she seemed to already be tired of his pressence as he follows her around like a dog begging for a treat.
I am glad I am not the only one that noticed that. I found it funny that he used the same trick she used with him the first time they went out shopping together. "You don't want to be with me" in baby talk.
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Old 2009-03-18, 01:23   Link #1095
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Definitely agree about Akira. He's simply a rebound and I am sure he knows it.

But with Yayoi.. even though the evidences points to the contrary, I still can't shake that she's doesn't genuinely care for Touya.. That it is just some way to distract Touya from ruining her "client's" career."

Still an ice queen in my book.
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Old 2009-03-18, 01:52   Link #1096
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I can say if the scene was done properly it probably would have been a great scene for oh about 2 seconds before Yayoi starts with her "let me taste your tears your sadness gives gives me strength" Touya's bit was already poorly done to add insult to injury Yayoi made the scene worse with her actions. WTF was that? is she even human? I was wondering about that but seems we should take your suggestion and assume Shinozuka being mentally not stable like Hiiragi. I think this also has to do with her failure and its end results with Rina. Perhaps even Rina might know something about Yayoi based on that incident. Now im sure we might an explanation to how Yayoi actually feels (feelings huh?) but not till the 2nd half starts airing. We know little to none about Yayoi real intentions. All she ever says is she will support Yuki and everything she is doing is so Yuki wont be held back. However, did she ever think that if Yuki knew what was transpiring between her and Touya she would be an emotional wreck therefore HOLDING HER BACK? But this thought seems to never have crossed her mind oh and the whole stalker thing just went up in smoke although she did show she is still kind of nervous when the car phone rang.Guess Hiiragi has the phone number of the phone car. I agreed with you that once all if found out by Yuki, SHE WILL KILL HERSELF! That's of the schooldays all talk about. Take 3D world....how many idols kill themselves because they have been betrayed? How many even reveal it unless they (cops) find out about it? Too many and I follow Japanese news a lot.

Rina's face was like WTH i wanted a slap from her but to my dismay it never came. Another part i really enjoyed in this episode was the conversation between Rina and Yayoi and we clearly see the differences in their personality but their end goal (YUKI) is clear once again its all about Yuki each have their own methods of helping ironically enough both of these methods would and is causing Yuki discomfort.[b]Logically, yes to all that but only because she cannot hear Touya's voice nor get to go out with him. Is Shinozuka's BS really true about them being together would create a scandal? Cause this is what I think of it-----> YEAH RIGHT!
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I think thats spot on and what i thought as well. Funny thing is there is a little quote that replays in my mind every time i think about Yuki becoming a idol. "We never realize what we have till its gone"

If Yuki does change and her relationship with Touya is as good as dead Touya has plenty of options for moving but Yuki will have noting but her music and we know that eventually her 15 min of fame will be up, just how Rina career is in its last throws. in the end years later what will Yuki have? I believe Yuki will start to see how things really are and when she is faced with reality of losing Touya for good she will realize just what it is that she lost. She has two choices

1.fight for Touya
2.let him go regret it for the rest of her life but become a big star for the next 3 or 4 years.

which one would you choose? I use to think it would be a Yuki ending but im not so sure anymore theres a chance Touya might not end up with anyone. Even though i wouldnt object to seeing him with Rina she could keep his ass in line.
I would go for 1 but is Yuki even able to fight. She makes me think of Miki from the anime Marmalade boy.....A FLAKE THAT WIND BLOWS! Did she even do anything when she was with Rina like Touya I love you in front of her or at least we know each other since highschool? Nooooooo! Of course not. She did nothing there to fight for him. Yeah Rina is good for him but once again I think that Haruka is best! because she needs him the most since her brother is dead.

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Touya has already shown that he crumbles under stress and seeks comfort to relieve it hence his daily trist with Yayoi. The good news they are always in the car if we ever see them go to a hotel then hes going to do the deed. Rina possibly be another person he could distract himself with if she shows she's willing to comfort him and he would be comforting her as well since its obvious shes lonely because of the path she chose.
I think Rina is lonely because of her brother troublesomeness in her life. I think it is also because she shows no weakness due to the scandal brain scarring her. I think the whole scandal was worst than they even reveal to us. Beep WRONG about the car part VS hotel. The car can have more than enough place in the back and the seats recline. This is BMW or Mercedes so most likely sex is possible in there. The hotel if anything will be just to show the deed indeed. #12 it might happen. They are going somewhere due to some promise with Yayoi? Who knows but the swimsuit showing might mean more skin exposure which might mean something else.

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I had some down time at work today so i have been re watching the episodes but only the scenes involving Yayoi because her character really bothers me, her motivations her state of mind everything about her. What i tried to do was watch her mannerisms, what she says more than what she actually does and try to pull something from the little we know about her.

When the whole situation with Yayoi and Touya began i think it truly was business after all Yayoi barely new Touya crushing a collage and bullying him would be easy by using a weapon all women are born with their sexuality. However, i feel its changed over time after all spending time with people changes you and even an ice queen might actually has a heart and needs under the frost.

We never see Yayoi with any other people in her private life which is not surprsing since her work is her life. With the exception of reading an occassional book and having coffee (at the same place Touya works Echos) we see nothing else of her. Right now i think Yayoi has discovered a way to relieve her frustrations and loneliness without actually straying from her initial purpose of supporting Yuki. So far the only emotion and it was ever so slight that we have seen has been her interacting with Touya. The one thing i can see in Yayoi's eyes is her lonliness it obvious everytime she is shown. Those eyes devoid of life face like a piece of marble never changing she seems lifeless like a doll. A sever case of loneliness and detachment from emotion or interpersonal relationships would cause these traits. I realized that Yayoi is someone that Rina could become if given enough time say 5 or 6 years down the road.

In her mind what she is doing with Touya is for Yuki's sake but deep down does Yayoi feel she has found a kindred spirit? If she thinks this way in her mind there is no conflict of interest its effectivly killing two birds with one stone. She also knows that her secret is safe because Touya doesnt have the ballz to face Yuki. Silence is golden and information is power and Yayoi has both with Touya.

The change is ever so sudden over time and it might be missed becasue we always focused on other events surrounding the two. I cant say that Yayoi actually likes Touya but he is a way for her momentarily to have comfort and control while still doing her job its a sweet little arrangement. However,i do think on some level Yayoi thinks of Touya as HERS similar to how the band members were teasing Touya about being Rina's pet. Also, i feel her time with Touya is also responsible for part of her stance and very aggressive attitude towards Rina in episode 11. I kept wondering why it felt like Yayoi was protecting her turf and that turf would be Touya since Touya spends majority of his time with Rina now.

Im not sure if my theories are sound but after deconstructing her with the limited information we have this is what iv come up with. She has combined her job with her possible growing attachment to Touya they are one in the same now. I would bet money if Touya broke things off but the situation with him and Yuki stayed stagnant she would still initiate contact with him. That smile and kiss after she licked Touya's tears did not seem like a malicious one but it felt more like a smile of someone who could make her for a time forget the stalker, her loneliness and her past mistakes. Just as much as Touya is using her as a distraction she is using him as well and with his recent break down in the car Yayoi went to solidify his reliance on her by using physical means. She effectively made a move while Touya was at his most vulnerable which will only deepen the feeling he has to see and be near her even if he does not love her. Feelings are very tricky but Yayoi is obviously holding on to Touya tightly and its not just for her job if that was the case she would not keep seeing him since her primary goal has already been accomplished Touya and Yuki are not seeing each other and will not for a good while.

What do you guys think?
I AGREED WITH THIS! I also would partner up with you on analyzing this. Add me as friend.
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Old 2009-03-18, 08:30   Link #1097
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There seems to be a lot of hate for Touya...

...but I'd ask, what exactly do you expect him to do?

People have wants and needs, and they don't disappear merely because they're inconvenient.

Maybe I'm wrong but it just seems like people expect him to endure isolation for an absentee girlfriend. He tried that, and started coming apart. He tried staying busy, and people he cared about ended up becoming collateral damage. He tried talking to anyone that would listen to him, but one is a teenager who thinks he's just fantasizing and another is an ice queen who doesn't know how to be there emotionally for a person. Humans are social animals, and the alienation Touya is being forced through does destroy people.

I hear him being called weak or wishy-washy or a cry baby. He's just human. I think maybe people are letting the extraordinariness of his circumstances distract them from the fact that he's just a guy, and he's desperately lonely.

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Old 2009-03-18, 11:02   Link #1098
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...but I'd ask, what exactly do you expect him to do?

People have wants and needs, and they don't disappear merely because they're inconvenient.

Maybe I'm wrong but it just seems like people expect him to endure isolation for an absentee girlfriend. He tried that, and started coming apart. He tried staying busy, and people he cared about ended up becoming collateral damage. He tried talking to anyone that would listen to him, but one is a teenager who thinks he's just fantasizing and another is an ice queen who doesn't know how to be there emotionally for a person. Humans are social animals, and the alienation Touya is being forced through does destroy people.

I hear him being called weak or wishy-washy or a cry baby. He's just human. I think maybe people are letting the extraordinariness of his circumstances distract them from the fact that he's just a guy, and he's desperately lonely.

-Firetear
I agreed with you and want to add:Touya has not family support that is adequate to his needs SO THAT IS A MINUS.
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Old 2009-03-18, 12:04   Link #1099
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firetear View Post
...but I'd ask, what exactly do you expect him to do?

People have wants and needs, and they don't disappear merely because they're inconvenient.

Maybe I'm wrong but it just seems like people expect him to endure isolation for an absentee girlfriend. He tried that, and started coming apart. He tried staying busy, and people he cared about ended up becoming collateral damage. He tried talking to anyone that would listen to him, but one is a teenager who thinks he's just fantasizing and another is an ice queen who doesn't know how to be there emotionally for a person. Humans are social animals, and the alienation Touya is being forced through does destroy people.

I hear him being called weak or wishy-washy or a cry baby. He's just human. I think maybe people are letting the extraordinariness of his circumstances distract them from the fact that he's just a guy, and he's desperately lonely.

-Firetear
There are simple reasons that people are annoyed with Touya and i feel some of it is jutified.

If you want a matter resolved you need to actually attempt to do it. Touya has not done anything to clear things up with Yuki and make his position clear he lets all the influences in the world dictate his actions. I call him weak because he is weak minded he does not think things threw hes along for the ride and that does not solve problems.

Touya needs to take control of his life and what he wants he needs to get the determination to say I will decide whats best for me if Yuki decides im not good for her career then its over. Yuki has not made that choice and Touya is listening to all the people he shouldn't and not listening to himself.

Yes Touya is very human and makes mistake but what separates him from being a strong lead and weak lead is if he learns from him mistakes and takes the bull by the horns. Nothing will change if he does not try its ok for him to cry sometimes we need to but when its over you get back up and try. Using people are a crutch to forget your problems only leads to a dependency issue which he is already developing.

I will not accept the teenager argument because hes not he is young adult. He does not have family support but sooner or later in life you have to stop using that as an excuse. Honestly Touya has had at least 3 chances to talk to Yuki in the past 3 episodes and it might be more but he has not. I have seen the argument that he and Yuki are broken up so its ok for him to be comforted by Yayoi thats BS im sorry. Does Yuki know or think they are broken up? have they ever had a proper talk about it? If their relationship was over in terms they both agreed on i would have no problem with him getting some nookie from Yayoi as a SINGLE guy but that is not the case and because he cant deal with his problems he distracts himself by working on others problems or by hooking up Yayoi. This appraoch has a bad end there is no way it can end well and he could end up becoming very introverted because of it.

I hear what you are saying and understand but you have to draw a line in the sand at some point with pity being one side and ass kicking on the other and thats what he needs right now a kick in the ass to get him moving and do what he needs to do no more self pity Touya has the potential to be mentally strong he has potential but in the end its his choice to play the victim till the end or become the man he can be.
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Old 2009-03-18, 12:09   Link #1100
golthin
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firetear View Post

I hear him being called weak or wishy-washy or a cry baby. He's just human. I think maybe people are letting the extraordinariness of his circumstances distract them from the fact that he's just a guy, and he's desperately lonely.

-Firetear
You see, the right thing to do would be to break up with Yuki, but Yayoi doesn't want that either.
the reason that Yayoi started doing this was because she knew that touya would eventually break up with Yuki and that it would really destroy her career. Yayoi was not really interested in him, but she might be falling in her own trap. I really think that If touya had broken clean with Yuki and gotten involved with Misaki, he woud be in better shape.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinestra View Post
I have seen the argument that he and Yuki are broken up so its ok for him to be comforted by Yayoi thats BS im sorry. Does Yuki know or think they are broken up? have they ever had a proper talk about it? If their relationship was over in terms they both agreed on i would have no problem with him getting some nookie from Yayoi as a SINGLE guy but that is not the case and because he cant deal with his problems he distracts himself by working on others problems or by hooking up Yayoi.
Like I said before, Yayoi doesn't want them to break up, that is the problem. In the earlier episodes, Touya asked Yayoi if she wanted him to break up and she told him no. Yayoi knows that a break up know will really set back Yuki's career a lot.
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drama, eroge, romance, seinen

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