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Old 2009-03-15, 07:31   Link #1001
Yukinokesshou
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I can't answer for Japanese but I can for Chinese, which uses the same words but with the kanji in unmei (運命) reversed so that it would be pronounced as mei-un in Japanese (命運).

In the sense you described, unmei/mei-un (ming-yun) would be closer to destiny in a positive sense, i.e. "destiny brought us together", whereas shukumei (su-ming) would be closer to fate as in fatalism. The Chinese word for fatalism is 宿命論 (su-ming-lun), which would be pronounced as shukumei-ron in Japanese, but I don't know if they use this word.

So, in short... you've got those two reversed unless Japanese is the opposite of Chinese in usage.
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Old 2009-03-15, 07:50   Link #1002
Jan-Poo
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oh well the chinese perspective is still interesting ^^

So basically there's a similar distinction in chinese culture and "ming-yun" is close to "destiny" while "su-ming" is close to "fate".

Now it would be interesting if in japan it was the opposite ^^;
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Old 2009-03-15, 10:06   Link #1003
aohige
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unmei/meiun 運命/命運 is used exactly the same way in Japanese also.

In general, 命運 is used for fate regarding one's life, but they are interchanable for the most part.
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Old 2009-03-15, 12:14   Link #1004
Terrestrial Dream
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I heard that there are lot of Zainichi in the entertainment industries and sports in Japan. Is that just a rumor or are there some merit to it?
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Old 2009-03-16, 06:36   Link #1005
ZephyrLeanne
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Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream View Post
I heard that there are lot of Zainichi in the entertainment industries and sports in Japan. Is that just a rumor or are there some merit to it?
Romi Park!!!
Ok that's just one example, in the sports or entertainment, I dunno, but I know that it is true in the anime industry. Especially the CG and stuff.

Romi Park, BTW, is a seiyu, FYI.
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Old 2009-03-16, 08:01   Link #1006
Mystique
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Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream View Post
I heard that there are lot of Zainichi in the entertainment industries and sports in Japan. Is that just a rumor or are there some merit to it?
Quote:
Koreans in Japan are the ethnic Korean residents of Japan. They currently constitute the largest ethnic minority group in Japan. The majority of Koreans in Japan are Zainichi Koreans, also often known as Zainichi (在日) for short, who are the permanent ethnic Korean residents of Japan. The term "Zainichi Korean" refers only to long term, permanent residents of Japan who have retained either their Joseon (old, undivided Korea) or South Korean nationalities, not Korean Japanese (Korean: 한국계 일본인/조선계 일본인, Hanja: 韓國系日本人/朝鮮系日本人, Japanese: 韓国系日本人/朝鮮系日本人), who are ethnic Koreans who have acquired Japanese nationality through naturalization, possible only after a 1985 naturalization law revision.
Wasn't a term i was familiar with, written in romaji.
As far as I was aware, it was only her father who was korean and so she kept her surname. She was born/rasied in Japan though, but I guess ethnically that would make her 'Korean'
(Not sure on ther mothers side)

But yes, kudos to my fav voice actress. ^^
I dunno how much K drama stars count as 'zainichi', but Boa should be another. I just remember her being 16 and able to sing in Korean, Japanese and English. x.x

PS: Does 'yon-sama' count?
They're making his drama into an anime come april, (which is in Japanese) - Unless they translated the entire drama from Korean to Japanese (how many dramas are popular enough for that? O.o) - i presume he acted in Japanese?
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Old 2009-03-16, 08:34   Link #1007
Yukinokesshou
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I don't think Boa and other K-pop/K-drama figures would count as "zainichi". Even if they are completely fluent in Japanese and have lived in Japan for most of their lives, they still wouldn't be "zainichi". Though the word literally means "in Japan", I believe it typically refers to Korean families who have lived in Japan for a few generations yet still retain their Korean identity.

It's the same difference between recent Chinese immigrants to the US and those who have lived in Chinatowns for well over a century, or between Korean expatriates in China and China's officially recognised "Chosun" minority. I might be wrong though... feel free to correct me.
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Old 2009-03-16, 10:06   Link #1008
Tri-ring
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Originally Posted by Yukinokesshou View Post
I don't think Boa and other K-pop/K-drama figures would count as "zainichi". Even if they are completely fluent in Japanese and have lived in Japan for most of their lives, they still wouldn't be "zainichi". Though the word literally means "in Japan", I believe it typically refers to Korean families who have lived in Japan for a few generations yet still retain their Korean identity.

It's the same difference between recent Chinese immigrants to the US and those who have lived in Chinatowns for well over a century, or between Korean expatriates in China and China's officially recognised "Chosun" minority. I might be wrong though... feel free to correct me.
The narrow definition of Zainichi Kankokujin/Chosenjin(在日韓国人/朝鮮人) are Korean descendants who came to Japan during the occupation period who did not go back to Korea after the war but does not naturalize to Japanese nationality.

They can easily apply for Japanese citizenship but refuse to do so.
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Old 2009-03-16, 10:19   Link #1009
ZephyrLeanne
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Originally Posted by Tri-ring View Post
The narrow definition of Zainichi Kankokujin/Chosenjin(在日韓国人/朝鮮人) are Korean descendants who came to Japan during the occupation period who did not go back to Korea after the war but does not naturalize to Japanese nationality.

They can easily apply for Japanese citizenship but refuse to do so.
My stance is taking the kanji at face value: Koreans in Japan on long-term basis.
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Old 2009-03-16, 10:55   Link #1010
Circular Logic
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Zainichi is more specific that that; it means the Korean sement of society that came to Japan during the Empire and haven't nationalised , but have permanent residence (i.e. they can't vote, stand for election, etc.)
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Old 2009-03-17, 01:23   Link #1011
Ryuou
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So this big introduction is to ask if such distinction can also be applied to japanese culture.
I know of the word "unmei" which should mean "fate" and the word "shukumei" which should be more similar to the concept of "destiny"

But does that distinction actually exist? Are there words that actually reflect the difference between "fate" and "destiny" or are there completely different words who differs for another completely different reason?
You already got the explanation on Unmei/meiun which I really can't comment on. So with shukumei I guess you can tie it to destiny but it also gives me a slight impression of fate in your negative sense. Not that it's bad, but that it's not necessarily whole heartedly accepted. Shukumei can come off as a duty, a mission to fulfill something, regardless really of whether or not they actually want to.

So to answer you actual question, yes there are differences between fate and destiny in Japanese, but I can't say for sure if those differences are the same as you explained for English.
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Old 2009-03-19, 23:40   Link #1012
bhl88
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Ambassadors of Cute, from left: actress Shizuka Fujioka, Yu Kimura, center, and Misako Aoki pose during a news conference at the Foreign Ministry on Thursday. In a bid to raise its international profile, Tokyo has appointed these three young women as cultural envoys because they represent Japan’s long-running craze for all things cute. Tsutomu Nakagawa, the head of the cultural affairs division, said their role will be to speak at cultural events such as a Japan Expo to be held in Paris in July.


Mixed replies from + to negative:
- Cute (I pick X)
- lol Japan is full of weird ****
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Old 2009-03-19, 23:59   Link #1013
Shadow Kira01
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Originally Posted by bhl88 View Post
Spoiler:


Ambassadors of Cute, from left: actress Shizuka Fujioka, Yu Kimura, center, and Misako Aoki pose during a news conference at the Foreign Ministry on Thursday. In a bid to raise its international profile, Tokyo has appointed these three young women as cultural envoys because they represent Japan?s long-running craze for all things cute. Tsutomu Nakagawa, the head of the cultural affairs division, said their role will be to speak at cultural events such as a Japan Expo to be held in Paris in July.


Mixed replies from + to negative:
- Cute (I pick X)
- lol Japan is full of weird ****
This is the third post of the same topic in this same thread. Is the ambassadors of cute so surprising? I don't see anything strange about the idea at all.
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Old 2009-03-20, 00:06   Link #1014
iLney
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The weird thing is everyone loves cuteness...

It's like the US appointing Madoff as the cultural ambassador.
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Old 2009-03-20, 00:34   Link #1015
Vexx
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.... but no one loves Madoff and I'm not certain what cultural meme he'd represent other than "greed".

It is rather odd to have this same story duped as much as it has been.
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Old 2009-03-20, 01:01   Link #1016
bhl88
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lol didn't know XD
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Old 2009-03-20, 22:02   Link #1017
Ryuou
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I don't find most of them all that attractive. The too cute cute thing doesn't really do anything for me when we’re talking about RL girls my age. I don’t find it cute.

But it brings up an interesting cultural dynamic between Japan (and maybe other Asian countries) and what I would assume is most of the Western countries. And that is the dynamic between cute and sexy. Whereas being sexy is the major necessity in the west for attractiveness, it’s cuteness in Japan. And then for men it’s all about their face. Japan’s really superficial I guess.
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Old 2009-03-21, 00:09   Link #1018
Vexx
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Hmmm, to be honest - they don't prick my "o wow" buttons either but the ones on the left and right have more attributes I find attractive. The middle one.... no thanks, I'll pass.
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Old 2009-03-21, 01:19   Link #1019
bungmonkey
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I'd say more creepy/I'm about to be murdered, less cute.
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Old 2009-03-21, 07:15   Link #1020
Yukinokesshou
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Originally Posted by Ryuou View Post
But it brings up an interesting cultural dynamic between Japan (and maybe other Asian countries) and what I would assume is most of the Western countries. And that is the dynamic between cute and sexy. Whereas being sexy is the major necessity in the west for attractiveness, it’s cuteness in Japan. And then for men it’s all about their face. Japan’s really superficial I guess. [/FONT][/COLOR]
Asia and the West are equally superficial; so are cuteness and sexiness, skin whitening and tanning, etc. One good thing about the last dichotomy is that Asian women who protect themselves from the sun tend to look young for longer (and it's not just genetic, since tanned Asian Americans and Singaporeans often look a lot older than their counterparts in China/Japan/Korea).

On a completely different topic...

What is the demographic appeal of light novels such as Toradora and Suzumiya Haruhi in Japan?

According to what I've read, manga has a much wider demographic appeal than anime such that it is completely normal for businessmen to read "bishoujo" manga whereas someone who follows the same story in anime form would be labelled an "otaku".

Hence, the Suzumiya Haruhi anime is considered an icon of "otaku" culture but do the original novels have a much broader appeal? In other words, are they something the average teenager would read on his/her commute to school?
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