Spoiler Policy Q&A thread

[Sinfully Naomi]

But people put spoilers like:

Spoiler for For Sakura:

OMG, SHE ISH LEIK OMEGA AWESOME!

If people took the time to specify then maybe we would be in a different boat here. -.-

And still, maybe you(meaning whomever looks at the spoiler tags, or whatever) should exercise some self-control. It's not that hard, even if there is a hint of something major that may be spoiled you shouldn't look. You can't blame the spoiler tag on your own curiousity.

People tend to not think when they click, they just become maniacs on the mouse and then want to whine and complain about it later on. Do people even think of reprecusions anymore, is what I wonder, because if they did then this wouldn't be the case right now. The only thing I cold think of would be for people to properly label their spoilers. Then again, only about 3% of the forum members even look here, so there's really no point if no one will read about it, sadly. =/

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Cats

"Oh I am in a series thread! Look a spoiler, and some wierd talk before it... it must be a wallpaper!", who's fault is it here, obviously not yours since "some people use it for images", you just taught it was a image since "it was not properly labeled", like the context and fact it has "Spoiler" writen on it is not enough, even though that was the natural order of things.

You completely missed entirely the point of what I was saying, thus proving that people don't understand the subtlety of varying degrees of severity in spoilers, and validating the standing policy's approach. Good job!

Originally Posted by Cats

Why not re-think the spoiler tag, since it needing constant fixing (as well as aparently not being a spoiler unless labeled) is obviously not a acceptable solution. I saw it done on other boards where they do no collapse the content, like that you can always take a guess at what they are about to say and nobody will bother to use it as a toggle-hide tag anymore. This would take a minor tweak to the current system, and would save us from a lot of drama; you can also remove the non-label version from the system if you do not want un-labeled spoilers.

No, I personally think the current implementation is the best spoiler system I've seen on any forum I've visited, as long as people use it correctly. What would "save us from a lot of drama" is if people would follow the stated rules and label their spoiler tags correctly. There may be other ways of doing it, but the current solution is still completely acceptable.

[Daniel E.]

Originally Posted by Sinfully Naomi

And still, maybe you(meaning whomever looks at the spoiler tags, or whatever) should exercise some self-control. It's not that hard, even if there is a hint of something major that may be spoiled you shouldn't look. You can't blame the spoiler tag on your own curiousity.

I sure can blame the person that replies to your comment without using a tag at all, that's for sure.

In the example I deleted, the ending of a game was discussed in an image thread. They were using spoiler tags at first, then along came someone who didn't think it was such a big deal to use them, and ended up spoiling the whole thing for all that were reading at the time. >_<

Truly, regardless of how much self-control one can have, it matters little if others are going to spread the spoiler all over the thread as part of the conversation.

[SeijiSensei]

I'm opposed to Cats's suggestion that we abolish the push-button drop-down display. In fact I got the admin at AVSForum to implement a similar approach recently by showing him how things work here. I find it a much better solution than alternatives like changing the foreground/background colors of the spoiler text.

That said, perhaps there's a need for another tag, some type of "large content" tag, that could be used to hide graphics or long text blocks. I don't want to create any extra work for NightWish , but I find myself using spoiler tags in those situations because I don't have any other alternative. I do try to identify these cases with relevant subjects like "for length" or "for image size" when asked to state the reason for the spoiler.

(I realize putting images in spoilers doesn't affect the payload size when the page is viewed. I use spoilers for images in places where a large graphic would interfere with the flow of discussion.)

[felix]

Actually I was thinking simply changing display:none to visibility:hidden. I do not see reason for more information on what is hidden not to be favored over a estetic junk that seems to have only led to confusion, but oh well.

relentlessflame: I did not say anything about changing the current system; you presumed wrong. Also, someone like me who is among the "bleeding idiots" who "really really suck at labeling" (as you and Vexx put it) may never understand what that "subtlety of varying degrees of severity" refers to (since I'm not a mind reader) and how the labels should be written (since I've only heard your complaints).

[Slice of Life]

On a related note, is there a possibility to implement some kind of forum-wide deactivation button for the spoiler protection? "Open all spoilers", something like that? Or is there a firefox add-on that does the trick?

[Vexx]

The anti-example's title tag in my previous post was completely uninformative. It provided no useful information for a reader to gauge whether it was safe to open the spoiler or not:
(repeated here)

Spoiler for oh my, in the manga!:

character X dies in chapter six!!!!!!!

A reasonable alternative to my anti-example might be:

Spoiler for manga chapter six - major plot revelation/spoiler:

Character X dies in chapter six.

This followup example at least tells the reader that if they haven't read chapter six they might want to avoid opening the tag.

Personally, I'm not against novel spoilers in anime threads if they're labeled such - but so many people have posted untagged novel revelations in those threads the mods apparently decided it was time for "scorched earth", so no novel revelations at all even in tags. That's fine for the subforums where a specific thread can be created to compare novel/manga to anime but it does leave the series with single threads unable to critique/compare the adaptation.

[The Small One]

Originally Posted by Vexx

A reasonable alternative to my anti-example might be:

Spoiler for manga chapter six - major plot revelation/spoiler:

Character X dies in chapter six.

This followup example at least tells the reader that if they haven't read chapter six they might want to avoid opening the tag.

Actually, depending on the reader, the caption of your spoiler-tag could be considered a spoiler as well. The information, that a major thing happens in a special chapter is already a spoiler in itself.
Using something like "manga chapter 6", or "recent manga chapter" should be sufficient.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by The Small One

Actually, depending on the reader, the caption of your spoiler-tag could be considered a spoiler as well. The information, that a major thing happens in a special chapter is already a spoiler in itself.
Using something like "manga chapter 6", or "recent manga chapter" should be sufficient.

You are technically correct, but if only that were the main thing we were worried about. I'll take a million of Vexx's second example over one of the first any day of the week and twice on days that end with a "y". At least in the latter case, you know that it's probably a bad thing to open the spoiler, which is the most important thing -- to prompt the person to decide, based on what they know of the story, if it's safe to open the spoiler.

And even though what you suggest is technically preferable, how many times do we see posts like this:

OMG that episode was crazy!!! 10/10!!!

Spoiler:

Stuff happened

Obviously, that is not what we want -- we want the entire post to be in spoiler tags, including the opening remarks. And we also want the spoiler tag to identify the episode being spoiled, and not give away any of the contents.

But you know, frankly, this is one of those "pick your battles" things. What you point out is indeed technically correct, but I'd gladly trade "people now have a vague idea that something major happens in an upcoming chapter! Oh no!" for "people didn't know that the spoiler tag was going to reveal a major plot development and now it's ruined for them". I know some of you think that "well it was a spoiler tag! It's obvious you'll get spoiled!" but it really isn't that simple. If you want to ask "which behaviour should we teach and encourage", you're of course correct. But in terms of issuing warnings and infractions, we've got to deal with the larger problem first. I personally think the second example is a massive improvement over the first.

[Sinfully Naomi]

Originally Posted by Daniel E.

I sure can blame the person that replies to your comment without using a tag at all, that's for sure.

In the example I deleted, the ending of a game was discussed in an image thread. They were using spoiler tags at first, then along came someone who didn't think it was such a big deal to use them, and ended up spoiling the whole thing for all that were reading at the time. >_<

Truly, regardless of how much self-control one can have, it matters little if others are going to spread the spoiler all over the thread as part of the conversation.

I see. Well, that shows the level of commen sense of that user... or lack there of.

I propose making eveyrthing in certain forums a spoiler, if there was such an option.(or code that can be created for it for that matter)

EX:
Manga Topics
Art Topics, ect.

I don't know if that would be possible, but that would certain stop a lot of fuss if it were. Could it be possible, now that I think about it? I code in the forum, that works like a swear filter, but whenever the word "Manga" or "pictures" or words of any admin's choice were put in, it could be instant spoilers for the posts?

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

On a related note, is there a possibility to implement some kind of forum-wide deactivation button for the spoiler protection? "Open all spoilers", something like that? Or is there a firefox add-on that does the trick?

To answer my own question after doing some research: Yes, there is an add-on that does the trick, namely Stylish which allows you to write your own stylesheets to override the ones already present. It's easy to implement a minimal solution that keeps all spoilerboxes always open for you.

Spoiler for the necessary code:

@-moz-document domain("forums.animesuki.com") {
.spoilerbox
{ 
display: block!important;
}
}

I'd rather have them open by default but still closable, mainly to hide large images that screw with the layout. But I don't see how this is possible without modifying the javascript. Greasemonkey seems to be the right tool to do that but I haven't looked into it yet. And I'm also neither an expert on stylesheets nor on javascript..

For those people who click on every spoilerbox anyway this might simplify things. When speed reading through a few pages of a thread frequent spoiler boxes can be a real hassle.

[felix]

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=72998

See: K. Maximum Image Size

(covers how to do it in Opera as well)

[Slice of Life]

Thanks, Cats. Now that problem is solved too.

[frubam]

I blazed the first 2 pgs and didn't see the answer i was looking for, so i apologize if it's in the last 4 pgs, but how is one to go about the current translated chapter or subbed ep? I've seen 2 methods:

a)contain the current(most up-to-date) subbed episode/tranlated chapter in spoilers.

b)just post normally w/o the use of spoiler tags.

This is assuming the anime has no episode-specific threads(ex. Gundam 00 episode 3 thread). I usually think option A is more curtious in case of lurkers, but recently, i've been finding it a bit mundane to do this. Normally though, I generally follow how everyone else is doing it, but i wanted to know the proper etiquette here.

[KholdStare]

Well if the post is thumbnailed it wouldn't need spoiler tags right?

[SeijiSensei]

Originally Posted by frubam

i wanted to know the proper etiquette here.

I wish I could say there was a clear answer to your question, but since we're talking about etiquette rather than rules we're in rather murky territory.

I've written about spoiler tag etiquette in a couple of series threads. Everyone seems to agree (thankfully) that spoiler tags are mandatory when an episode has been aired but no English subs have yet been released. There are a sufficient number of raw viewers that conversation about a new episode happens almost immediately after it's aired in Japan. This is often also the time manga readers will feel the need to discuss how the episode differed from the manga, which can often lead into spoiler territory as well.

Attitudes seem to differ about the use of spoiler tags once a sub has been released. Personally I continue to use spoiler tags for at least 24-48 hours after the first sub appears because many people don't watch the releases right away. How long I wait usually depends on how popular the show is. After that period has elapsed I figure open discussion is fair game and stop using spoilers.

Many people object to protecting our fellow members from spoilers on the grounds that people should know better than to browse in a series thread in the period between airing and sub release. I think this is a reasonable observation for series that have sub-forums with separate threads for each episode, but it works less well for shows with one consolidated thread. There I think a bit of delay between sub release and open discussion is more polite.

All these problem become magnified when subs for a series lag far behind their original airings in Japan. These situations make episode-based discussions rather difficult. The raw viewers can start commenting on a show right after it airs, but if subs aren't released for weeks or months thereafter, discussion usually comes to quick end and often isn't revived when the subs do appear. For an example of this, take a look at the thread for Saiunkoku Monogatari Season II, where there were long periods without subs. The last third of that season was never really extensively discussed because, by the time the subs appeared, most AS members had gone on to other shows. Genji Monogatari Sennenki is suffering a similar fate at the moment.

[Proto]

What's the policy for commenting about episode previews in anime threads which do not have their own forum? In series which have their own forum?

And I re-ask a question that was left unanswered last time

I see that in character dedicated threads spoilers are allowed, however is that allowance restricted to spoilers related to the character in question, to the series in question, or there are not restrictions as to what spoilers can be posted?

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Proto

What's the policy for commenting about episode previews in anime threads which do not have their own forum? In series which have their own forum?

I would say that it's considered polite to put it in spoiler tags, but if it was shown in the actual episode, even in the next-episode preview, I think it's okay to discuss it in series forums. That being said, it still would not be okay to invoke source material knowledge to discuss next episode previews.

As for the question about spoilers in character discussion threads, I think spoilers could be allowed if they are relevant to the topic and if the label clearly explains the exact source of the spoiler. Any off-topic spoilers, like any off-topic posts, can be reported.

[White Manju Bun]

Originally Posted by Proto

What's the policy for commenting about episode previews in anime threads which do not have their own forum? In series which have their own forum?

And I re-ask a question that was left unanswered last time

From what Ive seen its fine as long as its seperate from the current epi discussion

Spoiler for thoughts on epi 1:

Thought it was rad.

Spoiler for preview for epi 2:

Looks epic!

or included in another set of tags like so...

Spoiler for epi 1:

Too much filler!

Spoiler for epi 2 preview:

Looks like another filler!

I think either would be fine in regular threads or subforum threads again as long as theyre marked.

[Proto]

ic. I agree in that tagging episode previews should be mandatory, as there are many people (including some I personally know) who avoid the previews as they would avoid any other spoilerful information. Can I start reporting posts which contain untagged episode previews then?