AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > General > General Chat

Notices

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 2009-03-31, 00:07   Link #741
LeoXiao
提倡自我工業化
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Vereinigte Staaten
Age: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
Yet the Bulverism still stands. It's still a matter of you making wilful misrepresentations against your opponents in the debate without addressing why the opposite position is wrong in the first place.
What I was doing back there was merely bringing up a unmentioned possibility. It was overstatement, but it had a point that wasn't completely groundless if you think about it a little. Surely people are often careless when it comes to sex, and my proposition was that they were setting standards for themselves so that they would be able to run from the consequences. This sort of thing (where people make standards for their convenience) often happens in history; and if you like, I can offer examples.

Now if you take my above opinion (I say opinion since I'm not formally arguing, like you seem to want to), and add it with my newer notion that states that "the boundary for when life begins is actually arbitrary", it works even better (meaning I didn't just pull something out of thin air).

Or do you want to contest that?

Quote:
So your position is based on an Argument from Personal Conviction? Noted.
Since the boundary is arbitrary, whatever your conviction is, it's also personal. I'll note that for you.

My point is that in the abortion debate, all of our views are "personal convictions," and all that is actually meaningful, in that case, is that we give more details as to why we believe what we do, and hope that the other party will consider those details in making their own choice of the issue.

Quote:
I really hope this doesn't start up again....
Actually... yeah, so do I. You know what, ignore this last post since I now think that you weren't actually contesting my point itself rather than the way the point was written. If you feel a need to respond, please do, but keep in mind this thread should've been six feet under some time ago.
LeoXiao is offline  
Old 2009-03-31, 00:16   Link #742
Reckoner
Bittersweet Distractor
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoXiao View Post
Since the boundary is arbitrary, whatever your conviction is, it's also personal. I'll note that for you.

My point is that in the abortion debate, all of our views are "personal convictions," and all that is actually meaningful, in that case, is that we give more details as to why we believe what we do, and hope that the other party will consider those details in making their own choice of the issue.
While this may be true to a certain extent, there still must be a law to ban it, or no law preventing it. As it stands in many countries, abortion remains legal. How can you ban the masses from an activity when it is just your opinion? Can we make a law that dictates that people must sleep on beds because we feel that is the normal thing to do?

Now the title of this thread is "Abortion right or wrong," so any response here does not dictate that people think it should be illegal unless otherwise stated, but I would assume that those who think it is wrong usually want to make it illegal.
Reckoner is offline  
Old 2009-03-31, 00:16   Link #743
Throne Invader
Protecting the Throne
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Asia Tour
Age: 22
Send a message via Skype™ to Throne Invader
Haha. Ascaloth I was just joking. In other words I was just trying to say that I don't wanna really join the conflict.

@Kamui4356
Hmm, you are right......in a sense. There's a simple answer to that problem. Don't do it unless you're married or ready to have this child. When these type of people have sex, I guess it's really more of heart and less of mind. Discipline is a really important part when you make choices. In an intimate relationship, the percentage of avoiding having sex isn't 0. As for contraceptives, better safe than sorry. Just don't do it. Again my answer does not include rape victims. But in my opinion regarding them, adoption is the best option.
__________________


It's time to start letting her make her own decisions. - Mom's dermatologist~
Throne Invader is offline  
Old 2009-03-31, 00:27   Link #744
Ascaloth
I don't give a damn, dude
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In Despair
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoXiao View Post
What I was doing back there was merely bringing up a unmentioned possibility. It was overstatement, but it had a point that wasn't completely groundless if you think about it a little. Surely people are often careless when it comes to sex, and my proposition was that they were setting standards for themselves so that they would be able to run from the consequences. This sort of thing (where people make standards for their convenience) often happens in history; and if you like, I can offer examples.

Now if you take my above opinion (I say opinion since I'm not formally arguing, like you seem to want to), and add it with my newer notion that states that "the boundary for when life begins is actually arbitrary", it works even better (meaning I didn't just pull something out of thin air).

Or do you want to contest that?
In other words, what you were bringing up was an ignoratio elenchi that did not serve to address the actual issue in the first place. Noted.


Quote:
Since the boundary is arbitrary, whatever your conviction is, it's also personal. I'll note that for you.

My point is that in the abortion debate, all of our views are "personal convictions," and all that is actually meaningful, in that case, is that we give more details as to why we believe what we do, and hope that the other party will consider those details in making their own choice of the issue.
Agreed. I don't throw accusations of fallacious thinking at people who don't state their opinion as if it is fact.

Quote:
Actually... yeah, so do I. You know what, ignore this last post since I now think that you weren't actually contesting my point itself rather than the way the point was written. If you feel a need to respond, please do, but keep in mind this thread should've been six feet under some time ago.
Fair enough, I'm cool with ending it here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amoredoll
Haha. Ascaloth I was just joking. In other words I was just trying to say that I don't wanna really join the conflict.
Fair enough. Take your time to grow up, and maybe you can join the debate when you're a little older and wiser.
Ascaloth is offline  
Old 2009-03-31, 00:40   Link #745
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
I'll just suggest people take the time to *read* the thread. It contains a lot of data people really need to consider before they *have* an opinion.
Vexx is offline  
Old 2009-03-31, 00:46   Link #746
Mystique
Honyaku no Hime
*Fansubber
 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: In the eastern capital of the islands of the rising suns...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
I'll just suggest people take the time to *read* the thread. It contains a lot of data people really need to consider before they *have* an opinion.
To be honest, I'm surprised it's even lasted this long without serious flaming or mud slinging. Kudos to the debaters, perhaps?
(but then, I wonder how many girls are on this thread actively...)
*remains on the fence quietly*
__________________

Worrying is like a rocking chair. It gives you something to do, but it doesn't get you anywhere. - Van Wilder
"If you ain't laughin', you ain't livin'." - Carlos Mencia
Mystique is offline  
Old 2009-03-31, 01:00   Link #747
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
I *think* there has been a fair amount of female participation (at least as far as the population of forum members) ... It helps the thread that the mods have patrolled the thread pretty thoroughly. Its probably one of the more amazing instances of mostly civil discussion and actual thoughtful exposition of information and ideas on both sides of the issue.

But yeah, because of the volatility of the thread --- loose thinking and poorly supported positions get thrashed pretty badly. Critical thinking skills and research into any important issue is a good idea before someone should just spout off. That's why I recommend spending a few minutes reading the thread looking for excellent posts on both sides and absorbing *how* they make their points and the amount of information they're presenting on the complexity of the issue.
Vexx is offline  
Old 2009-03-31, 01:01   Link #748
Throne Invader
Protecting the Throne
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Asia Tour
Age: 22
Send a message via Skype™ to Throne Invader
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
Fair enough. Take your time to grow up, and maybe you can join the debate when you're a little older and wiser.
Ok....looks like you really thought I'm a little girl. . I'm already 17 and mind you I've also had my fair share of debates at other forums.
__________________


It's time to start letting her make her own decisions. - Mom's dermatologist~
Throne Invader is offline  
Old 2009-03-31, 01:04   Link #749
Ascaloth
I don't give a damn, dude
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In Despair
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmoreDoll View Post
Ok....looks like you really thought I'm a little girl. . I'm already 17 and mind you I've also had my fair share of debates at other forums.
In other words, you are still a little girl, at least to me.

And maybe you have had your fair share, but I wouldn't know from the unsupported assertion you made the first time.
Ascaloth is offline  
Old 2009-03-31, 01:12   Link #750
Throne Invader
Protecting the Throne
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Asia Tour
Age: 22
Send a message via Skype™ to Throne Invader
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
In other words, you are still a little girl, at least to me.

And maybe you have had your fair share, but I wouldn't know from the unsupported assertion you made the first time.
Then consider yourself lucky
__________________


It's time to start letting her make her own decisions. - Mom's dermatologist~
Throne Invader is offline  
Old 2009-03-31, 01:35   Link #751
TinyRedLeaf
. . .
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
I'll just suggest people take the time to *read* the thread. It contains a lot of data people really need to consider before they *have* an opinion.
Indeed. Everything that needs to be said has already been said.

If you need a summary, please click this link.
TinyRedLeaf is offline  
Old 2009-03-31, 01:52   Link #752
Solace
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
I'll just suggest people take the time to *read* the thread. It contains a lot of data people really need to consider before they *have* an opinion.
Excellent advice.

The consensus is that this topic is over and I have to agree. I'd like to end this on a good note in celebration of a remarkably civil discussion on such a polarizing topic, so I'm closing the thread.

Thanks.
__________________
Solace is offline  
Old 2013-05-13, 17:46   Link #753
ganbaru
books-eater youkai
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
Doctor found guilty of murder in Philadelphia abortion trial
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...94C0WU20130513
Quote:
A Philadelphia doctor was found guilty on Monday of murdering three babies during abortions at a clinic serving low-income women in a case that cast a national spotlight on the controversial practice of late-term abortions.
__________________

ganbaru is offline  
Old 2013-05-13, 19:30   Link #754
Terrestrial Dream
勇者
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Tesla Leicht Institute
Age: 24
From other the article this guy does not seem to be right in the head. Apparently he would put fetus in plastic containers and bags. I really think this trial goes beyond abortion, rather this looks a trial for just one really sick person.
__________________
Terrestrial Dream is offline  
Old 2013-05-13, 19:39   Link #755
synaesthetic
blinded by blood
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Oakland, CA
Age: 30
Send a message via AIM to synaesthetic Send a message via Skype™ to synaesthetic
The more the nutjobs try and restrict abortion, the more shit like this will start happening again. Apparently "pro-lifers" are fond of coathanger abortions.
__________________
synaesthetic is offline  
Old 2013-05-13, 19:50   Link #756
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
The more the nutjobs try and restrict abortion, the more shit like this will start happening again. Apparently "pro-lifers" are fond of coathanger abortions.
When you peel the platitudes away and look at what the goals are, the only rational excuse is they want to punish anyone who has sex without the intent to procreate.
Vexx is offline  
Old 2013-05-13, 19:53   Link #757
synaesthetic
blinded by blood
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Oakland, CA
Age: 30
Send a message via AIM to synaesthetic Send a message via Skype™ to synaesthetic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
When you peel the platitudes away and look at what the goals are, the only rational excuse is they want to punish anyone who has sex without the intent to procreate.
Do all pro-lifers oppose condom use as well? Because it seems to me like this is more an attempt to take sexual freedom away from women specifically, relegating them to "barefoot and pregnant" staying in the kitchen.
__________________
synaesthetic is offline  
Old 2013-05-13, 20:06   Link #758
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
Do all pro-lifers oppose condom use as well? Because it seems to me like this is more an attempt to take sexual freedom away from women specifically, relegating them to "barefoot and pregnant" staying in the kitchen.
There isn't a 1:1 but there's a Huge Overlap even to the extent of being anti-condom and trying to assert unimplanted fertilized eggs are "people" (which is a problem when nearly every woman flushes fertilized eggs that don't implant).
Vexx is offline  
Old 2013-05-13, 20:37   Link #759
Terrestrial Dream
勇者
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Tesla Leicht Institute
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
The more the nutjobs try and restrict abortion, the more shit like this will start happening again. Apparently "pro-lifers" are fond of coathanger abortions.
When you are saying more "shit" like this this, are you talking about the trial or the action of this doctor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
When you peel the platitudes away and look at what the goals are, the only rational excuse is they want to punish anyone who has sex without the intent to procreate.
I could actually argue against this. There are parents who are likely to abort base on the gender and potentially babies being twin, with twin being more financially burdening. One could argue that in some they are stopping abortion to prevent such events.

I feel that article from Reuters did not provide enough details.
http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/...207178491.html
This article provides more detail, the most interesting part are the juries, all of them were pro-choices or had no particular strong opinion on women's right.
__________________
Terrestrial Dream is offline  
Old 2013-05-13, 20:41   Link #760
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream View Post
When you are saying more "shit" like this this, are you talking about the trial or the action of this doctor?
I could actually argue against this. There are parents who are likely to abort base on the gender and potentially babies being twin, with twin being more financially burdening. One could argue that in some they are stopping abortion to prevent such events.

I feel that article from Reuters did not provide enough details.
http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/...207178491.html
This article provides more detail, the most interesting part are the juries, all of them were pro-choices or had no particular strong opinion on women's right.
I'm sorry, that's like banning cars because some people have accidents. The ratio doesn't justify it.
Vexx is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 15:31.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.