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Old 2009-04-01, 19:19   Link #21
danin8r44
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Originally Posted by TubZ View Post
so what your saying is that Muslims are committing violence because people are disrespecting them... i think that's a bit of an overstatement
I'm sorry, where was that ever said in this thread?
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Old 2009-04-01, 19:22   Link #22
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Originally Posted by Cut-Tongue View Post
Way, waaaaaaay off a lot of times. Anime has a sometimes charming, sometimes way of mucking up different aspects of other cultures.
Yeah anime sometime give negative image to Japan too like pedophile and NEET culture...
But anime aspects of incest is scary me ^^
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Old 2009-04-01, 19:22   Link #23
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post #15... if that wasn't directed at Muslims then disregard what i said earlier... my mistake
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Old 2009-04-01, 19:58   Link #24
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Originally Posted by uis View Post
Yeah anime sometime give negative image to Japan too like pedophile and NEET culture...
But anime aspects of incest is scary me ^^
Yeah some things come off as really weird in anime... The loli stuff in particular.
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Old 2009-04-01, 20:42   Link #25
Vexx
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Originally Posted by TubZ View Post
post #15... if that wasn't directed at Muslims then disregard what i said earlier... my mistake
That was directed at *every* belief system... the word Muslim wasn't even used.
Spoiler for repost of #15:

But you reacting as if that post was directed at one specific religion.... well.... read it again more carefully.
Interesting that you automatically assumed....

I've seen violence committed by radical Christians, Jews, Hindi, and radicals from other religions because someone "disrespected" their religion by not deferring to it. Such violence is just unacceptable (example: radicals bombing Planned Parenthood clinics, assassinating doctors, etc).

I'm saying is that no belief system should expect any special deference from critique, examination, or expect to have no elements of it used in fiction. In terms of this thread - no one should be afraid to select elements of any religion and use it in their creation of fictional entertainment.

Anyone recall the opening theme of Kemeko DX and some of its religious references? Purely silly.... (though I'm sure it'd offend someone somewhere.... :P )

Last edited by Vexx; 2009-04-01 at 21:14.
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Old 2009-04-01, 21:10   Link #26
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i misunderstood... mistake on my part... got a bit carried away... i suppose i'm a bit sensitive when it comes to these sorts of discussions especially cause i'm Muslim myself

i get what you mean now Vexx ^_^
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Old 2009-04-01, 21:33   Link #27
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Hey, I understand the sensitivity... when the US authorities started profiling Muslims and "arab" appearing people, my wife (japanese-american) immediately made comparisons to how American citizens of Japanese heritage were persecuted and put in prison camps after Pearl Harbor. One of our local lawyers (I live in the US Northwest), Brandon Mayfield, who is Muslim was horribly investigated by the FBI in a big botch after the Spain train bombings. The later apology from the authorities was pathetic and insincere - and seriously damaged their credibility.
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Old 2009-04-01, 21:39   Link #28
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Well, in Singapore, after our own spell of racial riots in the 60s (long story there), we don't "encourage" confrontation or that sort of things. Counter-productive, if you ask me.
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Old 2009-04-01, 21:48   Link #29
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I've seen violence committed by radical Christians, Jews, Hindi, and radicals from other religions because someone "disrespected" their religion by not deferring to it. Such violence is just unacceptable (example: radicals bombing Planned Parenthood clinics, assassinating doctors, etc).
Carful, Vexx. The world "defer" is easily misunderstood. For one to not "respect" a religion by not submitting to its belief and teaching, or to question its authority is very common. However, if it's taken to another level where people degrade others' beliefs, now that's big trouble. The most common case would be along the line: that religion is unbelievable, that person must be so stupid to even believe in it.

Here, in a Gundam 00 doujinshi, for example, if Marina is portrayed as a bitch, AND a hardcore Muslim, for example, I have no doubt many Muslim individuals would be offended at how lack of commitment she is (all it takes is some little sexual pleasure for a Muslim to throw away her beliefs and values?) Sadly, this exploits the psychology of men (the very way incest and student-teacher relationship work), and if writers didn't know this is a specific taboo directs at Muslim, bunch of this would float around already (moaning the very holy name of Muhammad?)

Of course, fiction is fictional, violence is wrong. People still have the reason to be angry (a good recent case in anime would be Hetalia Axis power).

Last edited by Cinocard; 2009-04-01 at 22:51.
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Old 2009-04-01, 22:12   Link #30
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People still have the reason to be angry
This is whats wrong. The perception that people have a right to chimp out about any slight, percieved or real, is counter productive. Theres racism, sexism, etc. Things that affect people's lives. Then theres religion.

If I say something nasty about a god or goddess, thats one thing. If I don't hire someone or beat someone up because I dont agree with their religion, thats another. Religious people who stir up real trouble in their rightous indignation over a cartoon or a television personalities commentary are the ones who need to pull it back, not the cartoonist or the commetator. The cartoonist and the commentator arnt affecting anything, theyre just stating their opinion.
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Old 2009-04-01, 22:28   Link #31
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In other words, they can be as angry as they like .... converting that into violence and threats is, and should be, illegal and shunned.
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Old 2009-04-01, 22:29   Link #32
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Originally Posted by Cut-Tongue View Post
This is whats wrong. The perception that people have a right to chimp out about any slight, percieved or real, is counter productive. Theres racism, sexism, etc. Things that affect people's lives. Then theres religion.

If I say something nasty about a god or goddess, thats one thing. If I don't hire someone or beat someone up because I dont agree with their religion, thats another. Religious people who stir up real trouble in their rightous indignation over a cartoon or a television personalities commentary are the ones who need to pull it back, not the cartoonist or the commetator. The cartoonist and the commentator arnt affecting anything, theyre just stating their opinion.
Really? Even if they are stating their opinion and it does offend the religious group they do have right to be angry and protest. And these cartoonist and commentator do effect others view, if they don't then they pretty much failed at their job.
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Old 2009-04-01, 22:30   Link #33
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Really? Even if they are stating their opinion and it does offend the religious group they do have right to be angry and protest. And these cartoonist and commentator do effect others view, if they don't then they pretty much failed at their job.
Nothing wrong with affecting someone else's view, and the only time you hear about protests are when people are killed or people are threatening to kill others.

Thats what I'm talking about.
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Old 2009-04-01, 22:35   Link #34
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Nothing wrong with affecting someone else's view, and the only time you hear about protests are when people are killed or people are threatening to kill others.

Thats what I'm talking about.
Not if it is generalization or it is an ignortant view on certain group of people. Of course those protests shouldn't lead to those violent act but those cartoonist or commentator should know the boundary and respect the view of other religion. The blame goes to both side imo.
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Old 2009-04-01, 22:40   Link #35
Vexx
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Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream View Post
Not if it is generalization or it is an ignortant view on certain group of people. Of course those protests shouldn't lead to those violent act but those cartoonist or commentator should know the boundary and respect the view of other religion. The blame goes to both side imo.
So...... I should respect a religious sect that advocates stoning little girls to death who got raped and then does it? No, seriously -- labeling a view "religious" shouldn't exempt it from critical analysis.


But the thread is about "muslims in anime" and how they're represented.... so far we've seen very little representation and at least some of the lack of that appears to be due to the fear of intimidation ....

Last edited by Vexx; 2009-04-01 at 22:51.
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Old 2009-04-01, 22:44   Link #36
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To many Muslims, Islam is still at the stage whereby criticism is simply not tolerated. Hey, for something to claims to be the final version of Word of God, "building" on Judaism and Christianity, that is to be expected. The other two had their moments in the past. Eventually, we say "to hell with that".

Well, guess what? These people can choose to remain where the world, while the rest of the world move on.
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Old 2009-04-01, 22:47   Link #37
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Anyone that gets offended by something in an anime probably has a screw loose to begin with. I mean we're talking about a niche market piece of fiction here.
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Old 2009-04-01, 22:49   Link #38
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Originally Posted by Cut-Tongue View Post
The cartoonist and the commentator arnt affecting anything, theyre just stating their opinion.
In other words, if now I say you are a **** who speak (@*&$!, I'm just stating my opinion? Nah, I don't think so.

How is a cartoonist or a commentator different from a politician?

Imagine a dirty joke. If it's used toward a friend, it's normal. If it's used toward a stranger, it's mostly offensive. Yet why doesn't the stranger understand it the way the close friend does? Is that stranger wrong? Not really. Things can be looked at in many ways, and may they all be correct.

But because things can be seen in many ways, we mustn't resort to extreme methods till we have definite, conclusive evidences, and the negative consequences are plain and obvious.

However, extremists are often self-centered people who tend to think too much and bent others' words in the most adverse ways. And that's when we call them extremists.
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Old 2009-04-01, 22:50   Link #39
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
So...... I should respect a religious sect that advocates stoning little girls to death who got raped? No, seriously -- labeling a view "religious" shouldn't exempt it from critical analysis.

But the thread is about "muslims in anime" and how they're represented.... so far we've seen very little representation and at least some of that appears to be due to the threat of intimidation ....
If you are talking about the perversion belief of the some Muslim then no as it isn't following the proper religious idea. And I never said exempt from critical analysis but should be respected. I suppose if there is a confrontation of moral view in that society versus the view on that religion, then things get more complicated.But religion is very personal to many people and need to be respected.
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Old 2009-04-01, 22:51   Link #40
yezhanquan
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Anyone that gets offended by something in an anime probably has a screw loose to begin with. I mean we're talking about a niche market piece of fiction here.
Islam, to Muslims, applies to ALL spheres of life, at least the strict interpretation. Everything you do have to adhere to it. Can you see where this is going? I think I can.
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