AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Related Topics > General Anime

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2009-04-01, 22:57   Link #41
Zippicus
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Detroit, MI
Quote:
Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
Islam, to Muslims, applies to ALL spheres of life, at least the strict interpretation. Everything you do have to adhere to it. Can you see where this is going? I think I can.
I think even the craziest zealot would have a hard time trying to not sound like an idiot for addressing their people about something that happened in like Naruto.
Zippicus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-01, 23:07   Link #42
danin8r44
The King of the Insane
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Right next door to you..
Muslims always try to make sure Muhammad is never portrayed at all, in any media from portraits to anime to cartoons. The justification I always hear for not portraying Muhammad is that it is wrong to make idols. This is true in Christianity and Judaism as well, so my question becomes "how is it wrong to portray Muhammad as long as you don't worship it as an idol?"(an anime or cartoon representation will, obviously, never be worshipped) Afterall it never says not to portray Muhammad at all anywhere in the Qur'an. (If this seems irrelevant please tell me so, I thought it was on topic but I could be wrong._
danin8r44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-01, 23:11   Link #43
Ithekro
Space Battleship
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 36
There are extremists in every culture and religion. Even extremists at both polar ends of the same religions or cultures. It is when the extreme takes over from the norm that things start to get out of hand. Sometimes the extreme leads to a new norm, but other times it leads to chaos and death. Sometimes the extremist minority becomes the normal majority after a few hundred years (Christians in Rome). Sometimes they become the power only to become the norm and fall to another extreme (Communism in Russia). Only history will decide what is what long after the events have past.

As for Muslims in anime? Considering how most anime is basically set in Japan, the numbers of muslims represented will be few and far between. At least in terms of were they are obviously religious muslims. There have been several accounts of characters from Middle Eastern nations, North Africa, and other well known muslim majority countries and regions. The lead in Full Metal Panic grew up in Afghanistan during that fictions version of the Russian-Afghan War. I do not think his belief system every came up during the show's three seasons, so we don't know if he was even a muslim. Religion unless it is based around a holiday or Japanese tradition, generally doesn't seem to come up in the average anime unless it is a plot point. I would note however that the Christian religion has made an effect of a lot of anime plot points, accurately protrayed or not (usually not).
__________________
Dessler Soto, Banzai!
Ithekro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-01, 23:19   Link #44
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 56
Portrayal of Christianity is usually just a bit hilariously odd or its simply that some icons from it are used for effect. On a rare occasion, (e.g. Kannagi) its obliquely referenced as a competition point to Shinto.
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-02, 00:00   Link #45
Cinocard
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Generally, people knows more about Christianity than Islam, so a Jesus joke may success (just hypothesis), but a Muhammad joke will definitely has a negative consequence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by danin8r44 View Post
Afterall it never says not to portray Muhammad at all anywhere in the Qur'an.
Qur'an isn't the only text that Muslims have to follow. Religions don't work like that. You must not do anything against the holy text (Qur'an, Bible...), but it doesn't mean that's the only thing you must not do, right?


Quote:
I think even the craziest zealot would have a hard time trying to not sound like an idiot for addressing their people about something that happened in like Naruto.
Oh, they would if they could. If somehow they gained control of this world, the first thing they do is to put a ban on all fictional works that go against the teaching of their God.

We see sexual scenes are not good for kids, we censor them. They think...Naruto is BLASPHEMY, then ban it. Why not? If they see it as something bad and evil.

Quote:
Anyone that gets offended by something in an anime probably has a screw loose to begin with. I mean we're talking about a niche market piece of fiction here
Anyone thinks everyone sees anime as a niche market piece of fiction probably has a screw loose to begin with.

Anyone thinks fictional works do not shape the view of public probably has several screws loose.

If there were a doujinshi like the one I described, at least more than one kid in the world would probably think: wow Muslim women are so hot they blaspheme their god. I am not surprise if now I showed Gundam 00 to some of the most illiterate regions of Africa, kids there would think there existed giant robots flying around and fighting in our world for real. Of course, they are just two of the extreme examples, but they happen.
Cinocard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-02, 00:20   Link #46
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinocard View Post
Generally, people knows more about Christianity than Islam, so a Jesus joke may success (just hypothesis), but a Muhammad joke will definitely has a negative consequence.
Hopefully you didn't mean that as some kind of "justification", eh?
Quote:
Qur'an isn't the only text that Muslims have to follow. Religions don't work like that. You must not do anything against the holy text (Qur'an, Bible...), but it doesn't mean that's the only thing you must not do, right?
1) That may be true for followers of their religion -- but to expect non-believers to conform is ... presumptuous at best.
2) The Qur'an is the main text of Islam... the rest is simply interpretation and doctrine, i.e. the mulling of mullahs, some of which presume more authority on interpretation of faith than they merit. A Christian analog might be some screwloose "christian church" preacher asserting special understanding of Christianity that involves torturing selected passages for their own purposes.
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-02, 00:22   Link #47
Tri-ring
The Censor Bat
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Land of the rising sun
Well one thing I can think of concering Judeo–Christian religions are that in essence they have very little tolerance against any other theocracy other then their own.

Telling another culture/person what is good or bad based on own belief is self-centered and self-righteous.

As long as you have a strong belief within yourself then nobody is able to violate that altar and anything and everything else should just sound as noise to your ear.
__________________
Tri-ring is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-02, 00:30   Link #48
Cut-Tongue
ボクサッチ!
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Seattle
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinocard View Post
However, extremists are often self-centered people who tend to think too much and bent others' words in the most adverse ways. And that's when we call them extremists.
And the world should NOT bend to their will. See what I'm saying? It doesn't matter how much you disagree with whatever tastelessness someone spouts, they should be able to say whatever they please without people killing them for it. Tempering media for fear of backlash is basically just doing exactly what the extremists want you to do.
__________________

"L'enfer, c'est les autres." - Jean-Paul Sartre
http://bathcat.muxtape.com/
Cut-Tongue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-02, 00:39   Link #49
Cinocard
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Quote:
1) That may be true for followers of their religion -- but to expect non-believers to conform is ... presumptuous at best.
2) The Qur'an is the main text of Islam... the rest is simply interpretation and doctrine, i.e. the mulling of mullahs, some of which presume more authority on interpretation of faith than they merit. A Christian analog might be some screwloose "christian church" preacher asserting special understanding of Christianity that involves torturing selected passages for their own purposes.
So? What's your point? You seem to misunderstand my standpoint. I never said we should conform it. If we write something against the text, we may very well expect some negative responds. Like when we attempt to portray Muhammad, good or bad, some Muslims won't like it, regardless of the reason was written in the Qur'an or not.

Quote:
Hopefully you didn't mean that as some kind of "justification", eh?
What I state is simply a fact. Let the meaning be discussed later, do you agree with that statement?

Any writer who writes sensitive things should be ready for, again, some negative responds. If we think something is bad, harmful, or offend us, we have the right to complain and protest (the way we think is correct or not, is a total different matter). And depends on how bad and harmful WE THINK IT IS, we will have the appropriate method to "complain." If IN THE EYES OF MAJORITY, we always take things over-seriously, are self-centered, and easily refer to extreme method to "protest," we simply become extremists. If the majority is like us, then we are justice.

Anyone here remember the case of Japanese's history textbook a few years ago?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cut-Tongue View Post
And the world should NOT bend to their will.
It's like saying: we should never bend to the terrorist/kidnapper/criminal/attacker/whatever demands. Well, it sounds righteous. It is righteous, but needless to say, it depends on specific situations for the solution.

Last edited by Cinocard; 2009-04-02 at 00:50.
Cinocard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-02, 00:42   Link #50
Zippicus
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Detroit, MI
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinocard View Post
Anyone thinks everyone sees anime as a niche market piece of fiction probably has a screw loose to begin with.

Anyone thinks fictional works do not shape the view of public probably has several screws loose.

If there were a doujinshi like the one I described, at least more than one kid in the world would probably think: wow Muslim women are so hot they blaspheme their god. I am not surprise if now I showed Gundam 00 to some of the most illiterate regions of Africa, kids there would think there existed giant robots flying around and fighting in our world for real. Of course, they are just two of the extreme examples, but they happen.
I'm kind of baffled that anyone would dispute that anime is a niche market product. The only people that watch anime are people that like anime, and that's certainly not everyone (or even a majority).

And sure to some extent people opinions can be swayed by fiction, but that's really only when it mirrors something that already exists. Like nobody is holding protests against the empire for the violations of Ewok rights on Endor.

That last part is a little too out there in left field for me to comment on
Zippicus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-02, 00:44   Link #51
Cinocard
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Quote:
I'm kind of baffled that anyone would dispute that anime is a niche market product. The only people that watch anime are people that like anime, and that's certainly not everyone (or even a majority).
You know, it just happens, not like we can help it. Fact is, any Korean complained about Hetalia Axis Power are people that don't watch anime and people that dispute that anime is a niche market product. Assholes? What can we do?

Again, if we have the majority backing us, then "bring it on." But if 90% of the world population were Korean, who don't watch anime and dispute that anime is a niche market product...

Last edited by Cinocard; 2009-04-02 at 11:43.
Cinocard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-02, 00:52   Link #52
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 56
Sorry, I misinterpreted your intent in the post and where you were leading. You're right - there will be some folks offended. You almost can't move in life without offending someone. It is a very poor endgame when we let a few zealots interfere with everyone else's lives.
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-02, 00:57   Link #53
yezhanquan
Observer/Bookman wannabe
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Sorry, I misinterpreted your intent in the post and where you were leading. You're right - there will be some folks offended. You almost can't move in life without offending someone. It is a very poor endgame when we let a few zealots interfere with everyone else's lives.
And the system in Islam is such that anyone who has the balls and thinks that he is good enough to interpret the Quran can declare stuff. As Fareed Zakaria once mentioned in one of his books, "Osama has as much, or as little, power to issue fatwas as a Pakistani driver in New York." So, why do people listen to him? He has dough, lots of it.
__________________
Those from the lower levels cannot hope to surpass those from the upper.

RIP, Oba-chan (1935-2008)
yezhanquan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-02, 01:03   Link #54
LeoXiao
提倡自我工業化
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Vereinigte Staaten
Age: 22
The only anime I know of where Islam seems to be "seriously" portrayed is in "Yugo the Negotiator," where the protagonist has a job in Pakistan and has to conform with the culture there. I don't know that much about Islam in detail, but it seemed like that anime tried to make a semi-plausible attempt.
LeoXiao is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-02, 07:35   Link #55
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
There is also the manga: Adolf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_(manga)

In the last chapters the story shifts on the israeli-palestinian conflict, and one of the three Adolfs marries a palestinian woman. However, while it's obvious that the woman was muslim, the manga doesn't delve too much into religion.
__________________

Jan-Poo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-02, 09:06   Link #56
Jazzrat
Bearly Legal
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
I dislike it when people tries to force their religion on others.

I can burn any holy text i want be it quran or the bible because i do not subscribe nor care about neither belief. The reason I don't is because i don't see any useful purpose in doing so. If that is reason to be hostile, then "your" religion is truly violent and oppressive.

Just as we see japan as a country full of perverts and sushi, their view of us also differ from our own. Why bother getting so worked up about it? These people aren't going to rule the world and oppress your people with their "view" on your culture.

Should people get so worked up by stereotypes and generalization? While it might not be true for some, it is to an extend, true for most. As a diverse species, could we not just accept those difference instead and be contend that humanity is so much more than any other species on earth?
__________________
Jazzrat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-02, 09:57   Link #57
Tri-ring
The Censor Bat
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Land of the rising sun
This debate is kind of ironic when one of Japan's fundamental teaching is Buddhism.

Gotama Siddhattha would have not cared one bit on how people considered him or depicted him since his teaching is just that;

Quote:
The Four Noble Truths: that suffering is an inherent part of existence; that the origin of suffering is ignorance and the main symptoms of that ignorance are attachment and craving; that attachment and craving can be ceased; and that following the Noble Eightfold Path will lead to the cessation of attachment and craving and therefore suffering.

The Noble Eightfold Path: right understanding, right thought, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, and right concentration.
Buddhism really do not care if teachings are disgraced and actually challenge you to disgrace teachings for;

Quote:
Rejection of the infallibility of accepted scripture: Teachings should not be accepted unless they are borne out by our experience and are praised by the wise.
Anicca (Sanskrit: anitya): That all things are impermanent.
Dukkha (Sanskrit: duḥkha): That all beings suffer from all situations due to unclear mind
Let's go back to my first posting.
I wrote;
Quote:
Telling another culture/person what is good or bad based on own belief is self-centered and self-righteous.

As long as you have a strong belief within yourself then nobody is able to violate that altar and anything and everything else should just sound as noise to your ear.
i also wrote that;
Quote:
Judeo–Christian religions are that in essence they have very little tolerance against any other theocracy other then their own.
So this debate in itself is a clash of culture.
Anyone care to go further?
__________________
Tri-ring is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-02, 10:02   Link #58
MrTerrorist
Takao Tsundere Cruiser
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Classified
Quote:
Originally Posted by uis View Post
Anyway i am Muslim ^^
I knew that since your from Malaysia, a moderate Muslim democratic nation which unfortunately its current political climate is currently bad with... well you can just google it or something.

Just so you know, Setsuna was formerly a Muslim but became an Atheist after Ali trick him to kill his parents and made him and his friends believe they'll be martyrs fighting against the enemy. I surprise that its showing on Malaysian TV since the Azasdistan arc and Setsuna atheism might anger the the muslim conservatives over there.
__________________
MrTerrorist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-02, 10:15   Link #59
yezhanquan
Observer/Bookman wannabe
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 28
If (s)he lives to the South, then Singaporean channels can be received. Season 1 is being shown on our local okto channel.
__________________
Those from the lower levels cannot hope to surpass those from the upper.

RIP, Oba-chan (1935-2008)
yezhanquan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-02, 15:02   Link #60
kk2extreme
Your wife is hot...
 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: At your house fixing A/C
idk, isn't souske sagara from FMP a muslim
kk2extreme is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 22:50.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.