[Manga] Chapter 441 Discussion

[CubeE]

I know it may seem a little disappointing not to see a million different creative new jutsu in the Naruto v. Pein battle but overall as people have pointed out the ones he does have are pretty badass. This is going to be an incredible fight once it finally gets animated. Too bad that will take about five years at this rate....

[Vanitas]

Originally Posted by CubeE

I know it may seem a little disappointing not to see a million different creative new jutsu in the Naruto v. Pein battle but overall as people have pointed out the ones he does have are pretty badass. This is going to be an incredible fight once it finally gets animated. Too bad that will take about five years at this rate....

The initial Jiraiya v Pain fight will be badass enough once animated

[CubeE]

Hells yeah. It will also be touching to see Iruka again! I wish Kishi would give him a bigger role sometimes. Then again I probably like him so much because he's used so sparingly. But hell, he was the first to acknowledge Naruto. Gotta love him for that.

[ragnos007]

I have to admit, although it is kishi writing this, Naruto could have been smarter about that. He isnt in sannin mode anymore.... in the smoke bomb he could have had a clone henge into a raseng shuriken then thrown that first... then thrown the real thing in the shadow of it.

Honestly I think Nagato doesnt have a chakra limit like everyone else, where it reaches a point and he cant fight anymore. I think that his limit is where it reaches a point and his bodie starts breaking down and his life span shortens.

[CubeE]

You sure Naruto isn't in sage mode right now? I'm pretty sure he's got one Rasen-Shuriken left.

[Gamma_Sennin]

Originally Posted by CubeE

You sure Naruto isn't in sage mode right now? I'm pretty sure he's got one Rasen-Shuriken left.

Yea hes in SM, not quite sure he will be after his latest assault with FFRS..

When was naruto's last inspirational speech... thinking back the best we have had was his little bridge speech he made to kakashi... other than that we haven't really seen naruto break it out quite like he did in part 1..

THIS IS MY WAY OF THE NINJA , ill have my cleanex ready for the next chapter

[kenjiharima]

Originally Posted by SpyderSidiouss

It was totally called for when people were complaining about naruto’s lack of moves, but Pein’s? …Pein?? That just sounds silly now. Some people are really just hate junkies. Addicted to hating; it’s a sickness. They can't help themselves, they just have to complain & bicker about something... anything. Ex:

(naruto before power ups)

Poster1: They sure are waiting long to give naruto his powerups…
Poster2 (hater): Cuz kishi’s writing sucks. He’s playing favorites with Sasuke.
Poster1: Yeah, I guess it kinda looks that way….

(naruto finally gets crazy powerups)

Poster1: Whoa these Pein bodies are getting owned, narutos fuckin powerful as hell…
Poster2(hater): ugh, can’t they give him anything else but rasengans? And he still uses clones to make them!
Poster1: Dude, it doesn’t even look like a rasegan anymore… And hes a fuckin power house – hes killing *Pein* bodies with one hit, the whole village couldn’t even kill one…

(Pein fight keeps progressing)

Poster1: Holy shit, its Minato! Sweet!
Poster2(hater): aww, Naruto should have gotten more power ups from Minato being inside him. Pein gave him trouble, so he needs more power. I bet Sasuke would’ve gotten more powerups…
Poster1:

(naruto gets out of chibarku tensei)

Poster1: oh shit, Naruto broke out; This is getting good!
Poster2(hater): meh, I bet if this was Sasuke, he would have gotten out way easier.
Poster1: why are you even still bringing him up? In spite of all that’s going on?
Poster2(hater): Er um, well hes arrogant and that bothers me. And whats up with Peins elementals? I want to see earth, wind, water, and fire!

(…and the following chapter)

(poster2 puts his hands on his waste, with a feminine-like stance)
Poster2(hater): …And just what is up with the females in this manga? Why can’t they be more powerful? They don’t have enough screen time!
Poster1: Dude seriously….. Why do you read this manga?
Poster2(hater): Hey I got a right to bitch if I don’t like something okay? (waves finger back and forth, with eyes closed and his nose I the air), so stop being a kishi fanboy like kishi’s perfect or something.
Poster3 (a creepy guy who likes to lust over 15 year old little girls): yeah…(drools on keyboard) they need more screen time, that ramen girl and hinata are sexy ooo, so sexy. Omg I want to see them!
Poster1:…..
Poster2(hater): ….

(note: although the posters above were just actors, these were actual events. Yes, people actually made these silly complaints. Yes, I’m being serious. )

Yeah sure, I know the manga isn't 100% perfect (none are), but imo, Pein's powers are the last thing to complain about right now(out of maybe 1 or 2 things to complain about). Seriously, Peins done more than anyone we've seen. Variety, Stamina, and power. I really don't know what else people want this guy to do... I really don't...

Well I think this answers alot of questions on the fans and haters/flamers.

Anyways I always think Shounen has this idea in all their comic. The hero trains they get stronger and is pit up against a stronger foe, either a boss, rival or someone stronger. It's been done in DragonBall, Hajime no Ippo and other manga's too.

[Kotengu]

I REALLY REALLY HOPE THAT Naruto isn't going to get out of killing Nagato. Naruto hasn't killed anyone this whole manga. He's been learning assassin arts this whole time and he hasn't killed anyone. At least kill nagato!

[ragnos007]

Originally Posted by CubeE

You sure Naruto isn't in sage mode right now? I'm pretty sure he's got one Rasen-Shuriken left.

look at the last page

[Kakosan]

Originally Posted by Kotengu

I REALLY REALLY HOPE THAT Naruto isn't going to get out of killing Nagato. Naruto hasn't killed anyone this whole manga. He's been learning assassin arts this whole time and he hasn't killed anyone. At least kill nagato!

I believe that Naruto has killed before... remember the guy who was used by Itachi during the "let's save Gaara" arc? I believe that he was not technically dead after Itachi took control of his body.

[neshru]

Originally Posted by Kotengu

I REALLY REALLY HOPE THAT Naruto isn't going to get out of killing Nagato. Naruto hasn't killed anyone this whole manga. He's been learning assassin arts this whole time and he hasn't killed anyone. At least kill nagato!

I don't get why a lot of people seem to make a big deal out of the fact that Naruto hasn't killed anyone. It's not like he fights thinking "okay, I have to beat this guy but I must be careful not to kill him", he always goes for the kill. The fact that he's not the one that gets to finish off his opponents is irrelevant.

[Blaine]

Some possible spoilers for 442.

Spoiler:

source:http://variety-animanga.net/2009/03/naruto-442-spoiler/
verificationending


Color Pages: Are a double page spread of FRS hitting Deva Realm and causing a huge explosion.
The Smoke Clears, but Deva is hidden behinde a mini Chibaku Tensi he formed around himself. Naruto is suprised by this
Naruto(Thinking): How can he use his Jutsu now its only been less then three seconds
CT is released and Deva Pain drops out of the Jutsu unharmed
Deva Pain: You made the mistake of betting your last hope on the mechanics of single one of my techniques, but….
Deva Pain: Its unfortunate for you that Chibaku Tensi does not need time to recharge since it draws on my life force instead of chakra
Deva Pain: You have done well to come this far, but in the end your Pain is not as strong as mine afterall
Naruto: It isn’t about my pain anymore its about the will to never give up
Deva Pain: So thats your answer then as long as people never give up peace will be achieve?
Naruto: Yes there is no single solution we must all work together and never give up thats the way ninja…no people should be
Naruto: Some where along you stopped being both
Deva Pain: Your right… i am a God
Naruto: A God couldn’t possibly be as weak as you
Deva Pain: Weak?
Deva Pain Bashou Tennin’s Naruto into a cliff and grabs him by the throat
Deva Pain: Could a man who is weak destroy your entire village and kill you on a whim
Naruto: But can you really kill me?
Deva Pain: What are you saying
Naruto: You say your a God and could kill me on a whim, but you still need my power
Naruto:What kind of God needs the power of a Demon?
Scene shifts to Nagato/Konan
Nagato: I have made my choice I will kill you i don’t need your power like that fool…
Konan: Nagato you can’t
Konan: If you kill the kyuubi Jinchuriki then our plans…
Konan: that man’s plans will fall apart
Nagato: I don’t care anymore i already used my jutsu to much…i am already going to die, but i will remove his insolence from this world forever as well
Scene Shifts back to Naruto. Deva Pain forms a black spear and presses it to Naruto’s throat then draws back as if to impale him. But Deva falls over dead
Naruto(thinking): What happened…how was he defeated
Naruto(Thinking): It was so close that i thought i was going to die
Naruto(Shouts): What the hell happened here…
Scene shifts to Konan who has stabbed Nagato through the heart with a paper sword
Nagato: Konan…why?
Konan: You were weak Nagato…you always have been
Konan: I will capture the kyuubi myself…
Konan: I couldn’t let your foolish god complex destroy everything that man has worked towards
Konan: With your death now everything has gone according to that man’s plan
Konan(Thinking): Uchiha Madara-Sama your plans will be carried out
Side Text: What has caused Konan’s betrayal and what are the plans of Akatsuki’s dark master Uchiha Madara
Next Time: Konan’s power. The Nine Tails Captured?
end of chapter

Spoiler:

Source : http://ilredeipirati.forumcommunity.net/?t=25884861
Verification : Pending

God Pein: It's coming straight at me, I need to dodge it.
Pein attempts to dodge the Wind Release.

Rasenshuriken but just as he attempts to move, the Rasenshuriken disappears in a puff of smoke to be replaced by Sage mode Naruto.

Naruto Swings at Pein and barely hits him on his leg, because of the natural energy surrounding him the blow is much more powerful.

Pein is once again thrown against a boulder, his leg completely shattered. As Naruto comes in for another attack Pein puts his hand up and uses 'Shinra Tensei' which causes Naruto's Shadow Clone to Disappear.

Naruto: You will not get away that easily.

Naruto having already had his next Wind Release: Rasenshuriken ready to throw it the moment his shadow clone disappears.
Nagato: Damn it, another one. Is it real or another shadow clone. It doesn’t matter, I wont be able to avoid it.
Back at the tree house.

Nagato: We are going to lose Yahiko..

Konan: Can’t you stop him?

Konan looks down.

Konan: I don’t want to lose him again..

Nagato: This kid is too powerful and I don’t have enough chakra left.

Nagato: He suppressed the Nine Tails while in its Eighth tails

Transformation. This is something I did not expect.

Nagato: I…I don't know what to do!

Shift to Gai sensei’s group.

Neji: Is she going to be alright?

He says to Sakura with concern.

Sakura: Ten Ten’s assessment was only have right. The wound she sustain from the sharp object was only minor but the damage to her upper body was much worse.
Sakura looks around to everyone there and sees the pain and anguish in their eyes. She sees tears forming in Neji’s eyes and quickly says ;

Sakura: But I think we got to her in time. I think it will take a while but I am confident she will be “OK”.
Neji with a weak smile on his face:
Neji: I’m glad.
Lee with tears streaming down is face exclaims loudly: Woooo Whoooo@!#$%^&
Ten Ten’s inner self: What do you mean only half right.

Lee: What about the frog?

Sakura: Let me see.

Sakura goes to Ma and does a cursory examination.

Sakura: I am not an expert on frogs but from what I can tell she has minor lacerations and bruising as well a concussion. She’ll be fine as well.
Sakura: Gai sensei, have you heard of anyone else being hurt.

Gai: Well we did run into Master Jiraiyas giant toad. He informed us about Akatsuki. He seemed to be pretty banged up.
Sakura: We should send someone to his location as soon as we can.

Gai nods in agreement.
Switch to Naruto.

As before, just before hitting Pein the Wind Release: Rasenshuriken disappears to be replaced by Naruto.

Unable to use his Shinra Tensei, Pein puts up both his arms in a failed attempt to block Naruto’s blow.
Caption ( In order to conserve Sage Chakra Naruto chose to use Rasenshuriken clones instead of real ones.)
Naruto : You lose !

Pein: Y….You can’t. You said it yourself, killing is not your way.

Naruto: It doesn’t matter because you are already dead.

Naruto hits Pein with the full force of Natural energy surrounding his body. Pein is almost completely obliterated.
Switch to the tree house.

Nagato: He’s gone. We have lost him forever.
Konan looks at Nagato with paper tears in her eyes.

Konan: We have to leave now! He has already found our location. If he gets here, we wont stand a chance. I have used to much chakra trying to hide and protect you. We have underestimated this boy and if we don’t leave now we will pay for that mistake.

Nagato: Cough..Cough..As you wish.

Nagato: However we can’t return to Amegakure. Madara will surely kill us for my failure.

Konan: Agreed.

Naruto: Don’t even think about it.

Konan: H….How. You were fighting Yahiko.

Naruto: So that was his name. Doesn’t matter though, he is done.

Nagato: So “cough” that was it. He used his shadow clones as a “cough” diversion so he could make his way here. Very clever of you but you are still going to lose.

Naruto: QUIT THE ACT, I know you are almost out of chakra.

Nagato looks at him wide eyed.

Naruto: I want to know. I want to know why you did this.

Nagato: You haven’t answered my question yet. What is your answer.

Naruto: I..I..I..I don’t know.

Naruto stares at Nagato with a beleaguered look.

Naruto: What I do know is that you have had years to think about what your pathetic excuse for a reason is and I have only had a few hours.

Naruto: I also know that I have friends. A whole village who will help me figure it out.

Naruto: I know it will be hard but it was our sensei’s wish that I find a way. And I will, even if it takes me the rest of my life.

Naruto: Because my name is Uzumaki Naruto and I do not go back on my word. That is my Ninja way.

Nagato: Big words. I hope “cough” you can keep to them.
They pause for several moments.

Naruto: What is your name ?

Nagato: Names are irrelevant but I guess you have earned the right to know mine.

Nagato: My name is Nagato and my partner is Konan.

Naruto: Well Nagato, I can’t forgive either of you for what you have done to my village and its people.

Naruto: However, I also won't kill you. That will only breed more hate and another like you will just take your place.

Naruto: If I am the one who will change this world then it is up to me to start now.

Naruto: Nagato, I have a question I want you to answer.

brief pause.

Naruto: What should I, do with you?

Nagato looks at Konan with uncertainty.

Next chapter: The questions answer.

Spoiler:

Confirmed
translation : Nightjumper@nf

SJ cover is of Naruto( and Sakura and Kakashi)
Spine is of Sasuke
There's a pullout: "10th Chronicle Book"[or something like that]
(You'll know the history of 10 years of Naruto if you look at it)
Two-page colored cover: Left half has young Konan, Orochimaru(Nagato) and Yahiko. Below that, is how they are of the current day. Right half is exactly the same, only with Naruto, Sasuke and Sakura instead.

Now, details of the color pages:
Everyone is standing around Sakura & Hinata. Sakura is healing Hinata. (Huge emphasis on Hinata's breasts. [Their size:] three cupfuls of rice.[or something like that])

Sakura is talking about how/why it came to be like this. Seems like she's thinking along the lines of "This is for Naruto's sake..."[OR "This is because Naruto...", I'm not sure.]

Gai: Let's go and back Naruto up!!
[Something about Katsuya telling Gai that'll they'll get in the way, and that Naruto left the village in their care, or something like that. Not sure]

[Long story, short, of Naruto VS Pain:]
Naruto does an attack with KB and Rasengan. Pain evades the attack. Naruto does decides to do a Tajuu KB, and have all of them throw debris at Pain, or something. Pain deflects them all, and kills every one of them except two. Pain tells Naruto to give up. Naruto fires up another FRS. Pain thinks he's safe at his range. Naruto tells Pain that he's given up... on giving up. And then some **** about a successful attack with KB and Rasengan.

The end.

Spoiler:

source: http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=467357

Confirmed

Colour page. Everyone stands in a circle, with Sakura healing Hinata in the center. (Hinata's boobs are emphasized. This alone can make people feel like eating 3 cupful of rice)
People are wondering how this happened.
Sakura thinks to herself: She did it because of Naruto.

Gai says they're going to help Naruto. He seems to be in high spirit.
But Katsuyu tells him not to, because he would only get in the way. Naruto has his own plan and they should let him handle it alone.
Team Gai gets treated like air.

Scene changes to Naruto.
Double FRS. In order to prevent Tendou from dodging it, Naruto tries to grab his legs with 2 KB. But Tendou produces black rods from both his hands, and dodges the FRS attack.
(Sage mode ends)
100 Naruto who previously disguised as huge amounts of debris charge toward Tendou altogether.
However, they fail to beat the time interval and get blown away, except for 3, who then makes a Rasengan.
Tendou: (That one can't be thrown. It is nothing at this range.)
"Brat who couldn't answer my question, give it up!" so he lectures Naruto.
Naruto: What I'm going to give up... is my real body!
Then he lets 2 KB throw his real body towards Tendou and the chapter ends with him hitting Tendou with a Rasengan.

[Gamma_Sennin]

Originally Posted by neshru

I don't get why a lot of people seem to make a big deal out of the fact that Naruto hasn't killed anyone. It's not like he fights thinking "okay, I have to beat this guy but I must be careful not to kill him", he always goes for the kill. The fact that he's not the one that gets to finish off his opponents is irrelevant.

Or convenient

Hes a child firstly, and I think kishi does it primarily to stop the conflicting views between his actions and his own morality... naruto is always seen fighting to protect those he loves, the only time he was out for blood was when the kyuubi took over... similarly with sasuke who also has had his hands kept clean (Lizards dont count -.-) , the moment he kills someone he becomes a villain.. without it he has a chance at redemption... gives kishi more options, or maybe it serves as his own personal desire to keep his original teen trio clean and wholesome.. who knows

Originally Posted by Kakosan

I believe that Naruto has killed before... remember the guy who was used by Itachi during the "let's save Gaara" arc? I believe that he was not technically dead after Itachi took control of his body.

As for naruto killing the sand nin.. databook states pain's technique to be a sacrificial jutsu (which pretty much means he was dead before hand.. sorta is parallel with pain's bodies ability as well)... also we could also be picky and say it was itachi who put the sand ninja in the dangerous situation against his will, therefore being the one who was ultimately responsible for his death

[Justin Kim]

Originally Posted by Mists

Actually what made Pain cool is he really showed no mercy...but gave mercy to Naruto. I don't think he uses psychological warfare, he's more quiet and 'I don't care, get in my way and die.'

Explain to me, how Pain doesn't use psychological warfare? For instance, he completely exposes the "real truth," to Naruto that peace cannot be made without war and conquest of other villages. When he interrogates Naruto for a feasible solution, how did Naruto reply? Of course he couldn't, there are many flaws in the answers he would have given Pain, and Pain would only mock him for his lack of sense in these solutions. Hence, when Naruto becomes frustrated at the answer - Pain is able to win, by making him lose all hope and giving up. Just like "Hey Naruto face it bud, you can't win over me, and you can't make peace, only death shall do untill all grow tiresome." That's pretty much some mental warfare right there.

[Gamma_Sennin]

Originally Posted by Justin Kim

Explain to me, how Pain doesn't use psychological warfare? For instance, he completely exposes the "real truth," to Naruto that peace cannot be made without war and conquest of other villages. When he interrogates Naruto for a feasible solution, how did Naruto reply? Of course he couldn't, there are many flaws in the answers he would have given Pain, and Pain would only mock him for his lack of sense in these solutions. Hence, when Naruto becomes frustrated at the answer - Pain is able to win, by making him lose all hope and giving up. Just like "Hey Naruto face it bud, you can't win over me, and you can't make peace, only death shall do untill all grow tiresome." That's pretty much some mental warfare right there.

Yea I think a lot of that also has to do with Naruto's age... If we compare this to the way J_Man handled Pain's tirades of the notion of peace, then it clearly shows the difference in maturity... I also think Naruto was always going to take it worse than most, because he pretty much define's his entire life on the belief of what his peace was... or what he thought was right/wrong... however no doubt Pain took advantage of this situation by attacking naruto's beliefs, where like most things.. if your resolve is questioned, especially by yourself then you're already half defeated...

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Justin Kim

Explain to me, how Pain doesn't use psychological warfare? For instance, he completely exposes the "real truth," to Naruto that peace cannot be made without war and conquest of other villages. When he interrogates Naruto for a feasible solution, how did Naruto reply? Of course he couldn't, there are many flaws in the answers he would have given Pain, and Pain would only mock him for his lack of sense in these solutions. Hence, when Naruto becomes frustrated at the answer - Pain is able to win, by making him lose all hope and giving up. Just like "Hey Naruto face it bud, you can't win over me, and you can't make peace, only death shall do untill all grow tiresome." That's pretty much some mental warfare right there.

That's not psychological warfare, at this point Naruto was already defenseless, literally pinned down to the ground. It was just the usual grandiloquent speech the villains make too often when they have the hero(s) within their grasp.

[Justin Kim]

But didn't he prove that Naruto was wrong, by justifying that there is no easy solution to a problem at large?

[Hunter]

Not really, Nagato is the one who thinks there is a solution to the problem : killing millions every few years to scare off the survivors for a time.
Naruto (and Jiraiya before him) also aknowledge there is a problem but they are clueless about the solution. They have no easy answer in mind contrary to Nagato whose grief twisted so badly he came to believe mass destruction was the easy way out.

Nagato's crazy ideology is important for Naruto's growth beause he represents a twisted version of Naruto/Jiraiya's goal and thus pushes Naruto to find a better answer by himself.

[Justin Kim]

Ah, I see, alright Hunter you win the debate lol.