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Old 2009-04-02, 16:43   Link #61
WanderingKnight
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Quote:
Telling another culture/person what is good or bad based on own belief is self-centered and self-righteous.
Bullshit. Treating the women as a lower class of animals is wrong, and will always be.

However, it's also wrong to believe one has some sort of moral high ground and has the right to smite those who are immoral. Because not one country is free of such things. But telling them? Anyone can tell them. As long as you realize that, in your own society, just outside your house's window, there are a lot of injustices being carried out, it's perfectly fine.
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Old 2009-04-02, 20:45   Link #62
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Paladin Alexander Anderson (Hellsing) is a Roman Catholic. He's also a self righteous and incredibly violent killer. I have sense enough to know Hellsing does not attempt to accurately portray Roman Catholicism.

Recently, some Christians took it upon themselves to condemn the Harry Potter series and went so far as to have book burnings. Meanwhile, other Christians were rather embarrassed and stupified by the whole fiasco.

Child molestation in the Catholic church is the joke of the week for comedians. I'm sure this upsets devout Catholics, but at the same time, any person with common sense knows the Catholic church doesn't teach child molestation as part of their religion. Nor can they do anything about those who find it amusing.

We'd all do well to remember that individuals (real or fictional) do not accurately represent a religion or culture.
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Old 2009-04-02, 20:50   Link #63
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On Roman Catholicism in Hellsing, I find Anderson's attitude an rather accurate interpretation of an Inquisitor during the dark days of the Inquisition. Also, there is an element of truth in Alucard's observation of the Church, at least in pre-modern days: "Whoever follows, shall thrive. Whoever resists, shall perish."
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Old 2009-04-02, 21:02   Link #64
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We might as well change this to religion in anime as you're starting to talk about Catholicism and not just Islam.

A lot of characters in movies, books, and other media types have a certain background or affiliation to various organizations in order to present the person's past. Then the creator tends could potentially make the story of something where the character breaks that mold of people or has already broken it. Of course, whether or not you want to listen to a 16-year-old ramble on about vague generalizations is up to you.
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Old 2009-04-02, 21:08   Link #65
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In the end i think anime makers and mangaka avoid any representation of islam because they really don't know much about it.
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Old 2009-04-02, 21:15   Link #66
LeoXiao
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
In the end i think anime makers and mangaka avoid any representation of islam because they really don't know much about it.
Yeah that's probably safe to say. If scriptwriters wanted to have religious issues in their animes they would most likely have to study the topic (not many muslim animators out there, i suppose) in order to even semi-accurately portray the religion. And even if they succeeded, it wouldn't really increase the amount of people watching the show, so it would be a waste of time and and an indirect way, money.
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Old 2009-04-02, 23:24   Link #67
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Originally Posted by kk2extreme View Post
idk, isn't souske sagara from FMP a muslim
Even though he was raise a muslim, he still a secular person. For example, he eats pork which is big No for Muslims since it not Halal(The muslim version of Kosher) but he doesn't drink alcohol but only because he knows alcohol worsens your performance in battle. However he does recites lines from the Koran by heart and finds Muslim art beautiful while Japanese art and poetry is rubbish to his view.

If it wasn't for some of his flaws, he might become one of the coolest muslim characters in anime.
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Old 2009-04-02, 23:45   Link #68
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
In the end i think anime makers and mangaka avoid any representation of islam because they really don't know much about it.
Not really. It's more that the only religion that isn't celebrated much in Japan and that is still covered in anime to any degree is Christianity. And really even that is present only because it's cool and exotic.

In any case, there really shouldn't be all that much to worry about in terms of the portrayal of Islam in anime because it's all but nonexistent. This may change pending on what happens in the future (there's only one forthcoming anime that I can see having much to say on this at all). Until then, there are lots of more salient hot button foreign/cultural issues for anime like Nazi fetishism, etc.


By the way, please keep the real world Islamic events to a minimum to this thread, and only add what is actually pertinent. Bashing Islam and Muslims may be popular nowadays, but it's not going to be tolerated here, and I don't want to have to kill this thread. And the same goes for Catholicism, and whatever happens to be the fun target of the week as well.
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Old 2009-04-03, 00:00   Link #69
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Perhaps it is a matter of time verse how a religion/culture can allow itself to laugh...at itself, and is some ways let others laugh at them as well.

If this pattern is true, then I expect that the Muslims and Islam as a religion and culture will be able to take things in good rumor in about another 200 to 300 years...if Jewish and Christian religions patterns can be used as the examples. Jews seem to have been able to make fun of themselves (and allow other to do so as well from time to time) for well over 100 years now. Christians seem to only in the last half century or so been able to laugh at themselves, and they aren't fully out of the woods yet.

Based on the ages of said religions...if we take the formation of the Catholic Church in Rome as a baseline for Christians (as before then they would be considered radicals), then the Muslims are about 300 years newer while the Jews are about 1,300 years older (based on Solomon's reign....roughly..things get foggy in historical terms before Solomon). Thus in another few centuries, a debate like this might seem silly to the Net users of the day.

All things change, in time.
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Old 2009-04-03, 00:05   Link #70
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Not really. It's more that the only religion that isn't celebrated much in Japan and that is still covered in anime to any degree is Christianity. And really even that is present only because it's cool and exotic.
Uhm if you put it this way it looks like christianity is something totally unrelated to japan, but we should not forget that christians do exist in japan and christianity did have an impact in their culture. Despite the fact that christian proselitism in japan is an historical event that led to some internal conflicts (see Samurai Champloo), as of today japanese people even if they do not know the religion in dept they do have a general idea of its teachings and their rituals.
There is even a saying that states:

"Japanese born as shintoists, they marry as christians and they die as buddhists."

You really can't compare christianity and islam in the japanese scenario.
Anyway your point is valid for any other religion outside shintoism buddhism and christianity. So far we have talked about islam, but the same thing goes for induism, although the latter plays a central role in 3x3 Eyes but that's an exception.
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Old 2009-04-03, 00:05   Link #71
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Cultural Clash?

It's not just about anime and manga, but I think the same applies to games.

Spoiler:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
In the end i think anime makers and mangaka avoid any representation of islam because they really don't know much about it.
Actually, anime producers and the mangaka usually put a lot of time and effort into researching a topic of interest meaning that their knowledge is actually quite in-depth, though it doesn't seem that way. If it does seem that way, then you wouldn't call a manga a manga but rather a textbook.

Usually, stuff that is changed or added are controversial to some people, especially when the genre is politics and/or religion because it is common practice and it usually makes the manga/anime more popular.

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Originally Posted by Tri-ring View Post
Buddhism really do not care if teachings are disgraced and actually challenge you to disgrace teachings for;
Unfortunately, it appears that other religions tend to take it too seriously..
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Old 2009-04-03, 00:05   Link #72
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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
And really even that is present only because it's cool and exotic.
And because it came from the West, which Japanese people have always been envying every since Chinese stuff became out of style sometime around the Opium War.
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Old 2009-04-03, 00:13   Link #73
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different people has different intreptation of a versus from bible, Koran or Buddism readings.

But i dont think i've seen any anime that focus on religion. like OP said about in 00, setsuna might be Muslim... but thats just his family back ground, i dont think they gave him a specific religion.
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Old 2009-04-03, 00:14   Link #74
Jan-Poo
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Actually, anime producers and the mangaka usually put a lot of time and effort into researching a topic of interest meaning that their knowledge is actually quite in-depth, though it doesn't seem that way. If it does seem that way, then you wouldn't call a manga a manga but rather a textbook.
some do, most do not. If they really would be that accurate the whole concept of "engrish" wouldn't even exist, i mean it's not that hard to show the lyrics of a song to someone who knows the language and ask him if it does make sense. They really do not care.

Anyway an in dept documentation only happens when the mangaka really wants to focus his story in it. A good example is 3x3 eyes, but apart that manga how many induist references exist in other manga and anime? As long as there isn't a mangaka that wishes to depicts islam in particular we are not gonna see many muslim secondary characters in anime.
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Old 2009-04-03, 00:53   Link #75
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The "Engrish" is purposefully. I'm not 100% sure why, but that's the least conclusion we can deduce.

IMO, Mangaka are not fools. Actually, I believe their IQ are rather high (just baseless). When they write something sensitive, they know it. And if it's not, then putting an in depth research is usually just a waste of time. But they do research when the it's necessary to do so.

Quote:
Unfortunately, it appears that other religions tend to take it too seriously..
In many cases, it's not just disgracing the religion, but the people of that religion, their commitment, their will to believe and act in accordance to that belief. But, nah, it will just be a repetition of what I wrote 2 pages back.

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Bullshit. Treating the women as a lower class of animals is wrong, and will always be.
It wasn't.
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Old 2009-04-03, 01:56   Link #76
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Arabian Tenkousei
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Based on the description of the mangas, I believed the ones listed in this post are for 18+.
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Last edited by Shadow Kira01; 2009-04-03 at 12:32. Reason: I found some more mangas...
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Old 2009-04-03, 18:48   Link #77
WanderingKnight
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Quote:
Actually, anime producers and the mangaka usually put a lot of time and effort into researching a topic of interest meaning that their knowledge is actually quite in-depth, though it doesn't seem that way. If it does seem that way, then you wouldn't call a manga a manga but rather a textbook.
I highly doubt that is likely for the majority of anime, manga and games out there. The amount of times the Norse mythology has been abused in these mediums just because the names of its deities sound cool is abysmal. Even things that supposedly take it more seriously than others, like the Valkyrie Profile games, depict things that are just wrong by Norse standards.
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Old 2009-07-25, 19:59   Link #78
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Pardon me for bringing this old thread again but there is an update to the OP.

This may a rumor but some people said that Marina Ismail(Gundam 00) may not a Muslim at all, she may be a Jew. Sunrise intended to make Marina as a Muslim but afraid that it will draw some unwanted controversies like what happened on Jojo Bizarre Adventure OVA not long ago. However to prevent many more controversy, they still keep Marina Ismail name because if they make a Hebrew one, people will think Middle East only belong to Jews alone.

Forgive me if I was being racist but putting Muslims in anime is not a good idea.
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Old 2009-07-26, 04:40   Link #79
Haak
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As muslim I don't think I would mind seeing muslims in anime, even if they are depicted as the bad guys. I suppose if an anime went too far and started calling all muslims evil and scum or something, then I guess i would object unless they're trying to criticise Islam and not muslims. But I don't think if muslims were stereotypes like that in anime then I would automatically believe that Japan is only targetting muslims. Not after seeing China in Code Geass R2. I don't see that could've possible helped Japanese-Sino relationships.

As far as muslim women in doujinshi? Eeeeehh, I don't like the idea personally. In fact it makes me cringe, but i can't offer any real objection.

I have so far not seen a single muslim in an anime though.
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Old 2009-07-26, 12:40   Link #80
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I'm not a fan of muslim faith. The whole religion is a problem to me; how they live and how they treat there women.

Is this thread a general issue or are there anime with muslims? I couldn't tell one.
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