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Old 2009-04-05, 15:40   Link #201
qmeister
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That was a very good introductory episode, I found the characters instantly likeable and the way things were directed was quite well done.

I must thank Quarkboy for the primer to the game. I have no idea of the actual mechanics involved, but at least the terminology doesn't sound too much like gibberish to me.

However, the character design for some of the girls seems directly taken from Strike Witches...
Saki -> Yoshika
Hisa -> Minna
Yuuki -> Francesca
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Old 2009-04-05, 15:50   Link #202
Quarkboy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malintex_Terek View Post
Well, let me talk about the wrong bit, at least.

There is no official English terminology for a lot of Japanese mahjong terms, so by convention the online communities just use the Japanese/Chinese terms rather than the much eschewed English terminology for American "mahjongg" like pung/kung/chow. I mean these aren't even the Chinese terms...I know for a fact Chi is called "Sic".
By your own admission there's no "accepted" english terminology for Japanese mahjong terms, but there is the document I linked above that is a complete, consistent set of rules with a consistent set of terminology. Leaving everything in abbreviated Japanese just makes things even more opaque to someone who has no idea how to play. Which is more intuitive for an English speaker, a "Menhon tsumo" or a "Concealed half flush tsumo"? Sure, a translation note is probably needed for both, but in one case the person might actually remember what it means the next time.

Quote:
On top of these weird, confusing and often inter-mixed terms, which frankly would have simplified the subs tremendously and shortened the number of lines, they also got a few aspects of game mechanics wrong.

"Dealer gets double, pays double?"

That's rather misleading. Dealers get 1.5x points on both Rons and Tsumos, but pay 1.5x the hand value (minipoints - lol) when hit by Tsumos. So for a non-dealer Haneman, 12K, the dealer pays 4K while the non-dealers pay 2K. In this case the dealer pays double but only because it's a limit. This is never the case for Rons.

So dealers get 1.5x the payoff when they win, but lose double the hand value when hit by an enemy Tsumo for limit hands.

There's other nitpick stuff but I have to watch again to be sure.
By gets double, pays double, that's referring to the payment per player, not the overall point total. So it's pretty much correct. A non-dealer tsumo gets 4 times the base score because two players pay once and east pays double, and an east tsumo gets 6, because each player pays double.
It's perfectly correct and the simplest way to sum up the rule.
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Old 2009-04-05, 15:53   Link #203
kyouray
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First episode was pleasant and close to the manga. I should learn a little Mahjong to enjoy better the show.
Healthy Nodoka is love
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Old 2009-04-05, 16:03   Link #204
serenade_beta
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Spoiler for ep1:
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Old 2009-04-05, 16:32   Link #205
Malintex_Terek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quarkboy View Post
By your own admission there's no "accepted" english terminology for Japanese mahjong terms, but there is the document I linked above that is a complete, consistent set of rules with a consistent set of terminology. Leaving everything in abbreviated Japanese just makes things even more opaque to someone who has no idea how to play. Which is more intuitive for an English speaker, a "Menhon tsumo" or a "Concealed half flush tsumo"? Sure, a translation note is probably needed for both, but in one case the person might actually remember what it means the next time.
#mahjong has been working to get an official English document for non-Japanese speaking players. Our work at http://arcturus.su/tenhou/ is pretty much second to none.

I don't really trust using an European rule site as a proxy for Japanese style, though they are very similar. At that, iirc EMA's official cooperative is with MahjongTime, who used the wrong terminology and game mechanics for YEARS. I know, I used to write in to them about Toudai-Shiki corrections on almost a daily basis. xd

On the jargon, I disagree. It is far easier to introduce jargon than to spell out everything each and every time. Especially when you have very long hands like

Riichi, Iipatsu, Menzen Tsumo, Tan Yao, Sanshoku, Pinfu, Dora 6.

Riichi, first round win, all concealed, no terminals, three colour chow, pinfu, six dora? Saying it out-loud is perhaps not that bad, but putting it on a screen is too much. It is especially good to use jargon when Saki's signature move is the Rinjan ('winning off of a draw from the dead wall during a kan?'), and other terms are still kept in like Dora and Riichi as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quarkboy View Post
By gets double, pays double, that's referring to the payment per player, not the overall point total. So it's pretty much correct. A non-dealer tsumo gets 4 times the base score because two players pay once and east pays double, and an east tsumo gets 6, because each player pays double.

It's perfectly correct and the simplest way to sum up the rule
Oh, I see.

But only because you pointed that out.

If even an advanced player can get confused at how they're trying to summarize the game mechanics, I can only imagine someone with no familiarity getting even more confused since the requirement for that "simple" generalization was for hand values and Tsumos, which wasn't clear in the actual show.

...

Also, I've got to ask Quarkboy...just out of curiosity, and by popular demand.

Have you read Tom Sloper?
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Old 2009-04-05, 16:36   Link #206
Bonta Kun
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NODOKA-CHAN!!! I want to be embraced too!!!

well I decided to try to relearn the game but when your at my age one doesn't soak up info like before

I only slightly understood like 1% lol

but then even if I don't get whats going on, I'm still gonna watch and enjoy this series, me loves Nodoka-chwwan!!!
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Old 2009-04-05, 16:40   Link #207
qmeister
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I just know the Student Congress President is going to be awesome, and Saki herself will probably have greater and greater Crowning Moments of Awesome.
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Old 2009-04-05, 16:40   Link #208
Tofusensei
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I think it'll be like Hikaru no Go and Shion no Ou where 99% of viewers will have nary an idea of how the actual game is played, even after watching the final episode. And that is not important to enjoy the show because you can get a feel for the gameplay without it, though I can appreciate you guys debating this in a public forum so us Mahjongg virgins can have some understanding of the gameplay.
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Old 2009-04-05, 16:41   Link #209
Quarkboy
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Quote:

Have you read Tom Sloper?
Only after he somewhat angrily posted a link to his own blog (I suspect) on the CR forums.
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Old 2009-04-05, 16:57   Link #210
Penn
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Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quarkboy View Post
Only after he somewhat angrily posted a link to his own blog (I suspect) on the CR forums.
I'm pretty sure they were trolling you and the only reason you didn't know was because you think those terms are acceptable.
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Old 2009-04-05, 17:02   Link #211
Quarkboy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn View Post
I'm pretty sure they were trolling you and the only reason you didn't know was because you think those terms are acceptable.
Feel free to do better, I don't really care.
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Old 2009-04-05, 17:05   Link #212
Malintex_Terek
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I think Tom Sloper on CR was a troll, simply because I don't think he has a blog...but suffice to say, it's a funny matter either way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tofusensei View Post
I think it'll be like Hikaru no Go and Shion no Ou where 99% of viewers will have nary an idea of how the actual game is played, even after watching the final episode. And that is not important to enjoy the show because you can get a feel for the gameplay without it, though I can appreciate you guys debating this in a public forum so us Mahjongg virgins can have some understanding of the gameplay.
I agree for HnG and maybe SnO, but shows like Akagi and Saki are very mechanics based. Rather than the game being an accessory to the plot, the plot revolves around them.
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Old 2009-04-05, 17:28   Link #213
Nvis
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Nodoka =

This one's a keeper.
My sudden liking to pink-haired girls.
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Old 2009-04-05, 18:09   Link #214
BiFr0st
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Haha, that running scene in the rain was such a ripoff from Hikaru no Go when Akira started chasing after Hikaru.
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Old 2009-04-05, 18:16   Link #215
Kaoru Chujo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tofusensei View Post
I think it'll be like Hikaru no Go and Shion no Ou where 99% of viewers will have nary an idea of how the actual game is played, even after watching the final episode. And that is not important to enjoy the show because you can get a feel for the gameplay without it....
As someone who has read a couple of volumes of the manga, I agree with this. I have played majiang a couple of times (with my brother-in-law looking over my shoulder and ordering me what to do), but I really don't remember much -- and I still have enjoyed the manga and ep1.
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Old 2009-04-05, 18:32   Link #216
Littm
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Great episode ! Sometimes Gonzo can produce rather good anime. Now waiting for the next episode.
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Old 2009-04-05, 23:07   Link #217
Ash Falls Town
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Saki is a show with too much fanservice which I can't understand at all...

All in all it looks like we have a winner here.
I love all the supporting cast and I assume I'll feel the same about Saki soon enough.
Characters being anal about their titles are one of my favorite jokes and the taco girl reminds me of Yaya.
Also in spite of the fanservice being very unsubtle it didn't cause me to flinch in embarrassment. Not even the wet shirt scene.
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Old 2009-04-05, 23:42   Link #218
whitepearl
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Am I the only one slightly disturbed that they don't play with the rule of furiten?

It seemed implied that President thought Saki could've won more points if she passed up a regular 5 Pin in favor of a red dora 5 pin....the rule of furiten prevents players from choosing who they can declare "ron" against--once you pass, you forfeit the right to win unless you get a tsumo, where you draw the tile yourself.

I thought the first episode was okay...definitely a fanservicey show. Those looking for more pure mahjong should watch Akagi instead.
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Old 2009-04-06, 01:19   Link #219
Duo Maxwell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qmeister View Post
I just know the Student Congress President is going to be awesome, and Saki herself will probably have greater and greater Crowning Moments of Awesome.
Bingo.
Actually, every girl has their own awesome moment when they join National Tournament, but the Student Congress President (sorry, still can't remember her name ) is the most badass.

I feel myself is being unfaithful when watching this show. I want to hug everyone :3.
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Old 2009-04-06, 01:25   Link #220
stewie0814
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Hmm, this show surprised me, i wasn't expecting the art and animation to be at that level, also, like people have mentioned, some characters reminded me of people from strike witches, i'll definitely keep watching this, entertained me enough
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