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Old 2009-03-09, 07:25   Link #41
GreenLama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willyvereb View Post
Remember: Nina is Layfon's friend and Captain at once. She exepts from Layfon to be frank and clear with her because of that "titles"(as friend and his captain). It's essential for the good relationship and the trust beetween them(in a platoon where the captain can't trust in her subordinate the effectiveness of the whole platoon suffers from it).
With the last episode i guess he confronted him to explain why he did what he did in the past...she's interested in Layfon's reasons behind all this.
Just an example:
You are working in a business company...You have a friend who your subordinate at once. You find out that he got caught stealing. What would you do?
A. Nothing...nothing to do with me and my work.
B. Fire him!
C. question him throrougly about the stealing case and then decide later.

Nina choose the C answer in that case...but it seems you choose the A answer...while it's crazy because your friend in the example might steal from your company too!
Perhaps we know that Layfon is not a bad guy and he has a proper reason for it, but how the hell Nina know that??? Her responsibility as a captain and her curiosity as a friend make her do that.
Good way to put Nina in perspective when linked to Layfon. I have never really had to do it but if I had to be a superior in the work place to a friend as well as be his friend outside of work and something like theft or insubordination came up, I don't know what I would do. It must be hard for her.
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Old 2009-03-09, 07:43   Link #42
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Not exactly. Its actually when and where Layfon did those things. He's in Zuellni and not Grendan anymore, Nina's basically complaining for the action what Layfon already did in the past and been punished for it, which was exile by the queen. So far Layfon in Zuellni is being a good kid and didn't make a fuss. Now when she finally knew about his past where its actually beyond her comprehention, being a spoiled runaway girl who likes to play wargame and idealistic, instead of trying to understand what Layfon's motives really were and how much pressure did a HB had back then, she tried to lecture Layfon to use her ideals intead. What if she were in the same situations as Layfon, she'd probably say otherwise. She's too rash into things without thinking cool first.

That's the kind of things from her I wanted her to change.
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Old 2009-03-09, 08:03   Link #43
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I do think it was unfair of Nina too soo quickly judge Layfon without hearing the whole story. Also its obvious that the Student council president knew about Layfon´s past, all of it and tried to help him get over it by putting Layfon on the same side as the annoying big brute and the cat girl.
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Old 2009-03-10, 22:02   Link #44
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Originally Posted by CybEssen View Post
Then again we don't know what she was going through living "luxuriously" so that's just an assumption at best. Maybe we'll get more on that later. Some of her motivation is due to her attachment to the Zuellini fairy or fairies in general which we know a little more about at this time.

The defense of the city and the recent platoon match were a great wake up call for her, which in turn made her up her training up a notch to the point where it could be life threatening.

She wants to be up there so bad, but she's impatient. Granted, the filth monsters aren't going to wait around until she reaches new heights to attack so I guess the sense of urgency is understandable.
Yeah, I heard from somewhere that her life was not exactly "luxurious" as the anime so far had shown or revealed. If it is so, they should show more of it so that people could understand more about her than just saying she's some rich spoiled brat who likes to chase fairies because that sure doesn't explain other things about her.

But yeah, Nina is acting too rashly right now and really need to think carefully

Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
Character development is over-rated if the character isn't likable to me.

Felli is pure fluff for me and that's about it. Cute to look at, has her funny moments, but there isn't a female in the story that really draws me in. I'm in the show purely for the frills, thigh highs, and Layfon kicking some hardcore ass.

Nina's just an eyesore and one I'm practicing tuning out. Lets just say if I knew someone like her in person, we'd NEVER get a long and she'd be put in her place rather quickly with her ideals.
So you are a person who relies a lot on impressions that you get from a character rather than how they developed right? So if a character seems badass somewhere in the beginning, when his flaws are revealed later you don't mind it but the reverse it true? Then it's going to be hard for you to like and see a developed character if this is how you fee. Anyway, I felt like you could never put someone like Nina in her place because you don't have what it takes unlike Layfon who can act calmly and discussed with her his ideals until she could understand and likewise.

But yeah, Nina is too rash and rushes into things. She needs to slow down and think a bit more.
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Old 2009-03-10, 22:07   Link #45
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Shes irrational, however contains a (Saber) noble personality if she changes by being more understanding instead of being reckless and seeing the things Layfon has seen it might be more different never less if she develops correctly then she might be my fav heroine for regios in Fon Fon's harem XD
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Old 2009-03-11, 02:15   Link #46
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Originally Posted by Enternal View Post
So you are a person who relies a lot on impressions that you get from a character rather than how they developed right? So if a character seems badass somewhere in the beginning, when his flaws are revealed later you don't mind it but the reverse it true? Then it's going to be hard for you to like and see a developed character if this is how you fee. Anyway, I felt like you could never put someone like Nina in her place because you don't have what it takes unlike Layfon who can act calmly and discussed with her his ideals until she could understand and likewise.

But yeah, Nina is too rash and rushes into things. She needs to slow down and think a bit more.
If Layfon becomes a complete jerk or bad guy, then I'd hope someone would take him down. That's not going to happen though, so your argument is lame.

First impressions mean a hell of a lot in real life. They can make or break you, whether it's in jobs, friendships, or relationships, and there's a good chance you can't ever break out of that first impression.
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Old 2009-03-11, 05:15   Link #47
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@justinstrife: Let me just butt in and say that not all characters need to be likable, or even sympathetic. Not that Nina isn't likable to me, because she is, really. It's obvious to me that no one here can change your mind, and that's fine. Doesn't seem like you have anything more constructive to say, so moving on.

What do people here think of the Layfon/Nina development in episode 9? I saw a lot of uproar over Nina's decision on the other thread, but was I the only who thought the escalating tension between them so very... delish? Haha, sorry. Seriously though, I think it was Crisis who mentioned it before, those two are undergoing one of the most interesting and meaningful developments in this show. It even made Layfon interesting for the first time! I love his sudden doubt on his philosophy, and hope we get to see more internal struggles like this.
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Old 2009-03-11, 05:25   Link #48
Enternal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
If Layfon becomes a complete jerk or bad guy, then I'd hope someone would take him down. That's not going to happen though, so your argument is lame.

First impressions mean a hell of a lot in real life. They can make or break you, whether it's in jobs, friendships, or relationships, and there's a good chance you can't ever break out of that first impression.
First impression can do a lot in real life which is very true. But do you want to be those people who let 1st impressions ruin their views of others who might actually be different than they initially appear? That's what I am trying to convey here. We try to be better than that so we try to limit the heavy impacts of our initial impression of others.

Anyway, how is my argument lame? I'm trying to convey my message by using Layfon as an example so you got the idea but you still call it lame?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kafka View Post
What do people here think of the Layfon/Nina development in episode 9? I saw a lot of uproar over Nina's decision on the other thread, but was I the only who thought the escalating tension between them so very... delish? Haha, sorry. Seriously though, I think it was Crisis who mentioned it before, those two are undergoing one of the most interesting and meaningful developments in this show. It even made Layfon interesting for the first time! I love his sudden doubt on his philosophy, and hope we get to see more internal struggles like this.
I felt that the development is getting better since it makes each character more interesting since it makes them question their past actions and thoughts which is a good thing. One day you might think your action is correct but down the road, you might change your opinion due to many reasons like you grew up, you reevaluate yourself why did you think that way during that time which could perhaps be due to anger or other bias. Having Layfon and Nina clashing with each other like this so far seems to help them more than break them as Layfon starts to think more of his actions and Nina starts to think about her own ideals.
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Old 2009-03-11, 05:49   Link #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enternal View Post
Having Layfon and Nina clashing with each other like this so far seems to help them more than break them as Layfon starts to think more of his actions and Nina starts to think about her own ideals.
Surely, more their thoughts clashing with each other, and more they deepens their relationship, this is normal
And surely i prefer someone that clashing with his personality and way of thinking than someone that only because love him take his side, because it means only a lack of personality
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Old 2009-03-11, 06:22   Link #50
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Originally Posted by Tjaard View Post
Surely, more their thoughts clashing with each other, and more they deepens their relationship, this is normal
And surely i prefer someone that clashing with his personality and way of thinking than someone that only because love him take his side, because it means only a lack of personality
Definitely. So far all three main heroines are interesting in that aspect. Nina has clashing ideals with Layfon which makes them discuss with each other more and come more to and understanding with each other. Then there is Felli who seems to don't really care about Layfon ideals since he did not really hurt anyone good yet. Then there's Leerin who is already someone who understands Layfon.

Beside, if you simply take someone side because you love them, is that really love or is that more of an infatuation? If you really do love them, I believe that you still think whether what they did is right or wrong because you want the best for them.

Overall though, Nina and Layfon clashes because of how they were brought up differently. Leerin on the other hand grew up a similar situation so she understands him. Felli on the other hand I'm still a but confused. Is is because they share similar strong powers? Or simply she does not care too much about his ideals? I guess I need more time to think about that.
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Old 2009-03-11, 06:52   Link #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enternal View Post
Definitely. So far all three main heroines are interesting in that aspect. Nina has clashing ideals with Layfon which makes them discuss with each other more and come more to and understanding with each other. Then there is Felli who seems to don't really care about Layfon ideals since he did not really hurt anyone good yet. Then there's Leerin who is already someone who understands Layfon.

Beside, if you simply take someone side because you love them, is that really love or is that more of an infatuation? If you really do love them, I believe that you still think whether what they did is right or wrong because you want the best for them.

Overall though, Nina and Layfon clashes because of how they were brought up differently. Leerin on the other hand grew up a similar situation so she understands him. Felli on the other hand I'm still a but confused. Is is because they share similar strong powers? Or simply she does not care too much about his ideals? I guess I need more time to think about that.
Yeah, for Felli probably is because they share strong powers and they know what means have it and to be used only for that (SCP ), so probably she is fine when is with him, and because he ask her help with kindness (was always accustomed to being used by his brother that exploiting her powers)
For Leerin, many people think that she is someone who understands Layfon, surely she know layfon because is her childhood friend, but if you see her face when he cut Gaharn's arm, i don't think that she accept everthing that he do, contrary to what she says, probably she side with layfon only because she love him and no one else had taken his side after that incident (except the Queen and some HB, but this she probably don't know).
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Old 2009-03-11, 07:00   Link #52
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Yeah, for Felli probably is because they share strong powers and they know what means have it and to be used only for that (SCP ), so probably she is fine when is with him, and because he ask her help with kindness (was always accustomed to being used by his brother that exploiting her powers)
For Leerin, many people think that she is someone who understands Layfon, surely she know layfon because is her childhood friend, but if you see her face when he cut Gaharn's arm, i don't think that she accept everthing that he do, contrary to what she says, probably she side with layfon only because she love him and no one else had taken his side after that incident (except the Queen and some HB, but this she probably don't know).
I see, so that's probably the most likely reason anyway because there doesn't seem to be any other explanation. About Leerin, I felt that she does not exactly or completely understand Layfon (who does) but she probably is someone who understands him more than other people although like you said, she probably does not accept everything he does but since she understands his situation more since she grew up with him in a similar situation, she is much more accepting of him than others. Is this how you feel then? Sorry if I'm rehashing everything you say since I'm rather tired and can't seem to think clearly of what you wrote so I just want to verify. Oh yeah, she sure seemed strong since she does not sway when it comes to the topic about visiting the orphanage and stuff. She's like "I already decided that I will not visit the orphanage and that's that." No iffy or whatever. She is pretty much like the description from one of the novel readers and that's awesome then.
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Old 2009-03-11, 07:19   Link #53
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Originally Posted by Enternal View Post
Overall though, Nina and Layfon clashes because of how they were brought up differently.
True.

Spoiler for Episode 9:
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Old 2009-03-11, 07:36   Link #54
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Originally Posted by Enternal View Post
I see, so that's probably the most likely reason anyway because there doesn't seem to be any other explanation. About Leerin, I felt that she does not exactly or completely understand Layfon (who does) but she probably is someone who understands him more than other people although like you said, she probably does not accept everything he does but since she understands his situation more since she grew up with him in a similar situation, she is much more accepting of him than others. Is this how you feel then? Sorry if I'm rehashing everything you say since I'm rather tired and can't seem to think clearly of what you wrote so I just want to verify. Oh yeah, she sure seemed strong since she does not sway when it comes to the topic about visiting the orphanage and stuff. She's like "I already decided that I will not visit the orphanage and that's that." No iffy or whatever. She is pretty much like the description from one of the novel readers and that's awesome then.
No probably you've right, but if she said something as "I already decided that I will not visit the orphanage and that's that", we can only think that until she follow Layfon's decision, the other thing aren't so important, because take side with Layfon means that for her Layfon surely is important but the other not so much and i don't think is so, or this is what i feel, you know when someone say "Love is blind" xDD
The other point is that we don't know who lived at the orphanage, but this makes me think that except for Layfon and Leerin the other were all children or persons with whom she had not then this great relationship if she leave them, but for this we need to see all the past of layfon to the orphanage.
Surely what i started to think is that if anyone had done the same thing for the orphanage, she certainly didn't take his side, this isn't probably a bad thing but i don't like this behavior, take side with someone only because you love him.
Well, probably i missed some point but i'm pretty tired too xDD
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Old 2009-03-11, 10:33   Link #55
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Originally Posted by Enternal View Post
First impression can do a lot in real life which is very true. But do you want to be those people who let 1st impressions ruin their views of others who might actually be different than they initially appear? That's what I am trying to convey here. We try to be better than that so we try to limit the heavy impacts of our initial impression of others.

Anyway, how is my argument lame? I'm trying to convey my message by using Layfon as an example so you got the idea but you still call it lame?
Your example was lame because it's not going to happen, and the odds of it happening are so minuscule it's not worth mentioning. Bring out a realistic example.

I prefer my thought processes and how I think just fine. As you obviously feel the same about yours so we'll just have to agree to disagree forever on this subject. Some people just can never, ever, see eye to eye on certain issues, and this is one of them.
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Old 2009-03-11, 15:15   Link #56
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At least we have one girl who's not head over heels about Layfon. She acts according to her "basic" character: bound to honor and very seriously.
I can't wait to see her "cute side"
Spoiler for why:
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Old 2009-03-13, 18:28   Link #57
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i dont like nina her emotions are like a roller coaster

first i wont abandon u layfon, now sorry layfon im abandoning u!
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Old 2009-04-08, 06:49   Link #58
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Well, I don't think it really was like that ^^; It's just because she can't come up with Layfon in a better way because the difference of their idealism. You know, when people had a different opinion, they tend to avoid each other so that they wouldn't have a fight. It's a different matter when they manage to talk to each other, because it can result to a fight.

And it's not like she doesn't care about Layfon. Just look at her reaction during the deserted city arc
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Old 2009-04-08, 10:15   Link #59
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Originally Posted by Flyvedelta
And it's not like she doesn't care about Layfon. Just look at her reaction during the deserted city arc.
Yea she likes him but seems remain in denial. She's a hardcore tsundere lol. Maybe give her 2 or 3 more ep.....
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Old 2009-04-08, 16:43   Link #60
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She's far from Tsundere...more like Nakamadere
The Tsunderes are hurting the other(physicaly or emotionaly) with their denial. Nina has no problem being close to Layfon but she constantly denies her feelings and she tries hard to think about him as "just" a comrade.
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