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View Poll Results: Toradora! - Total Series Rating
Perfect 10 154 42.78%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 113 31.39%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 53 14.72%
7 out of 10 : Good 23 6.39%
6 out of 10 : Average 7 1.94%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.28%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.28%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 0.28%
1 out of 10 : Painful 7 1.94%
Voters: 360. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-04-10, 02:59   Link #81
WhiteWings
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I was suprisingly happy with how things were wrapped up. I wish the character Ami (or Emi or whatever people spell her name) was explored a bit more but hey the series were pretty good.
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Old 2009-04-10, 04:46   Link #82
SonicX_Zero
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Having managed to finish the whole show in two days, I must say that I enjoyed the whole ride from start to finish and things got wrapped up nicely to boot. At first I was kind of meh when they sealed the deal that Ryuuji would end up with Taiga after all one of the things I enjoyed was not knowing who will end with who in the case of Ryuuji. ^_^
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Old 2009-04-10, 12:05   Link #83
brain
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Originally Posted by Meatrose View Post
About what you said about the monologues; I also don't think that they're absolutely necessary. I love how Toradora! attempts to show the audience the difference between deep love and a crush without claiming that it's strictly impossible for a crush to grow into love over time. The anime made it pretty clear that Ryuuji and Taiga had much deeper feelings for one another than they had for their respective crushes, and did so pretty early in the show. Some things are definitely lost in adaptation though. Already in the first novel (= episodes 1 and 2) we learn that Ryuuji's heart tends to beat faster when he makes eye contact with Taiga, that he has to force himself to remain calm when he realizes he's going to get to touch her body while helping her with the stretching exercises in PE, that he's very aware of her warm body when he puts his hands on her back and the fact he can almost make out the outline of her underwear under her PE uniform. While standing behind her he even lets us know that seeing the smooth, white skin on her neck is enough to make one's heart race. The anime does not convey the characters' thoughts and feelings this well, as it would be impossible to do so. I still think that by implementing some of these inner thoughts they would have been able to add some extra depth to the main cast, and that would've made the show even better, especially since the best part about the show (in my opinion) was its characters.
I think you are being slightly unfair, here. If you watch carefully, you will note how often, for example, either Ryuuji or Taiga blushes or gets flustered due to the burgeoning feelings of love and the unquestionable attraction they have to each other. It's not like that's "in-character" for them to do with some arbitrary member of the cast, it's only each other and their crushes; and it's not as overt as in the novel but it is unquestionably omnipresent.
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Old 2009-04-11, 03:52   Link #84
fish eric
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I gave most episodes 8, 9 or 10. Like most people I believe the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. I am ranking this series as a 10. It is one of my favorite animes. Actually one of my favorite stories regardless of medium.

I would like to clear up what I believe are a couple of misconceptions. The first is concerning the artwork of the show. There were arguably parts where the "quality" suffered, but I don't believe it is the same parts that people are complaining about. I am reading that some people think that the Sumire vs Taiga & Minori vs Taiga fight scenes suffered from low "quality". I understand that some didn't like the way that scene was animated, but I think it's unfair to JCstaff to say the "quality" was poor or not done very well.

The real matter is "style" and JCstaff purposely drew the action scenes in a different "style" than they drew the rest of the series. If one doesn't like the style that is fine. Everyone has their own opinions, of course.

I just feel that it is a terrible insult to the artists that really worked hard animating this show to say the "quality" was weak when in fact its the "style" that some people didn't like. IMHO I kinda liked the action sequences style.


The second thing is about Ryuji's love for Taiga being too sudden or unrealistic because he liked Minori. This show has been praised for the characters having lots of realistic emotions. Unlike anime and movies and television shows:

It is normal for guys to be attracted to several different women. Animes always portray characters as having one-true-love. When I was in high school I would have nailed 3/4 (three quarters) of the girls in my home room and probably dated 6 or so. This is the way we guys are. Im sorry to everyone who has been taught different but this is really truly the way men think, all men no matter what we or anyone else tells you this is the gods honest truth.

What I am saying is that its not weird for Ryuji to like both Minori and to like Taiga. He probably is also attracted to Maya and her friend.

The reason he was surprised to hear Taiga confess is that she has always told him how much he disgusts her. In the novel they had alot of really sweet scene where Taiga was very affectionate to Ryuji. She would come from behind him and wrap a scarf around his neck. Things like that.

Also did anyone notice that whenever she wears Ryuji's scarf that she always pulls its over her nose? Its because she likes the way Ryuji smells.




Kaisos, I don't mean this as an insult. But why are so always being so negative? It honestly bothers me. It seems like almost every post from you is telling someone else they are wrong and you are right or just that they are wrong about something.

In my opinion you would seem alot more pleasant if you didn't try to tell everyone they were wrong.

Can I ask you a personal question? Are you like this in real life or only online? I bet that in real life you are actually a much nicer person. Im just guessing here, but I think you take out all your negativity online.

Im mean look at these quotes. These are all from the 11 post you made in just this one thread.

Quote:
Yeah, the animation was shit at times,
Quote:
All of JC Staff's budget appears to have gone into Index, is my guess why those episodes ended up like that.
Quote:
Quote:
(unless it is just utterly horrendous of course, although I've never see a show that fits that criteria).
Go watch Akikan or Chaos;HEAd. Then you can say you've seen a (recent) show which fits that criteria, heh.


Quote:
Hahahaha my ass they're going to break up.


Quote:
If you're not seeing it, you're obviously trying not to.
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Then you're wrong, plain and simple.

Quote:
When opinions are based off of wrong information, then yes, they are wrong.
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Edit: Nevermind, pushing my opinion on others makes me look like a hypocrite.

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No, it will just piss off the person you're using it on, and will not contribute in any way to the discussion.
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I think this is giving people entirely too much credit, but eh.
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I'd prefer we NOT have the poll system, myself.

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Pretty sure he has, but not everyone loved Honey and Clover as much as you did, as I'm sure you know.

For what it's worth, from what I've heard of how it ends, I think I'd hate it... >_>

I mean come on
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Old 2009-04-11, 05:57   Link #85
Meatrose
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brain View Post
I think you are being slightly unfair, here. If you watch carefully, you will note how often, for example, either Ryuuji or Taiga blushes or gets flustered due to the burgeoning feelings of love and the unquestionable attraction they have to each other. It's not like that's "in-character" for them to do with some arbitrary member of the cast, it's only each other and their crushes; and it's not as overt as in the novel but it is unquestionably omnipresent.
Okay, I don't really see what I said that was unfair to be honest. I mean I did say that the inner thoughts and monologues were not necessary (since the anime also made it clear that their feelings for one another surpassed the feelings they had for their crushes), but that by implementing some of these thoughts they would've made the show even better in my opinion. I guess it's a matter of opinion really. Inner thoughts and monologues are "unspoken lines" and to replace those with regular blush-scenes that simply stress the point (in a pretty non-subtle way) that "something is there" is not my idea of a perfect solution. It's very hard to do it any other way though, without actually having the seiyuu reading the lines which might end up disrupting the flow of the scene.

Anyhow, I do view the novel and the adaptation as two different entities. The anime does tell the story in its own way and does it really well. This thing I was saying about the lack of inner thoughts and monologues is not a problem that I have with the anime Toradora! in particular, it's more like a problem I have with visual mediums in comparison to novels. Hmm... I think it would be unfair of me to compare them. If I never read the novels I wouldn't have had anything to say about that after all. =)
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Old 2009-04-11, 06:57   Link #86
physics223
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Originally Posted by fish eric View Post
I mean come on
I was afraid I was the only one sensing the negativity. But there's an option where you can ignore certain forumers, just tinker around your User CP.
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Old 2009-04-11, 18:28   Link #87
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brain View Post
I think you are being slightly unfair, here. If you watch carefully, you will note how often, for example, either Ryuuji or Taiga blushes or gets flustered due to the burgeoning feelings of love and the unquestionable attraction they have to each other. It's not like that's "in-character" for them to do with some arbitrary member of the cast, it's only each other and their crushes; and it's not as overt as in the novel but it is unquestionably omnipresent.
It's still subtle, however, and perhaps difficult for people to pick up on.

...I think that might have been the cause of some of the major complaints against this show, but then again, people love to have things to complain about. I'm one of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fish eric View Post
Can I ask you a personal question? Are you like this in real life or only online? I bet that in real life you are actually a much nicer person. Im just guessing here, but I think you take out all your negativity online.
Hahahahahahahaha no.

No, I'm just as much of a douche in real life as I am online.


Although, for that matter, I say plenty of positive things. For example, I loved this show to bits.

About half of those posts are responses to people who are also saying negative things, especially things which I find irrational and illogical.

I'm certainly not the only negative person on the internet. It's just that a) Negative things stand out more than positive ones, and b) I'm a lot more blunt about it than most people.

I apologize if you're offended, you have the right to be, but I'm not going to compromise in how I think and feel to please other people.

No offense, of course.
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Old 2009-04-11, 19:28   Link #88
brain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatrose View Post
Okay, I don't really see what I said that was unfair to be honest. I mean I did say that the inner thoughts and monologues were not necessary (since the anime also made it clear that their feelings for one another surpassed the feelings they had for their crushes), but that by implementing some of these thoughts they would've made the show even better in my opinion. I guess it's a matter of opinion really. Inner thoughts and monologues are "unspoken lines" and to replace those with regular blush-scenes that simply stress the point (in a pretty non-subtle way) that "something is there" is not my idea of a perfect solution. It's very hard to do it any other way though, without actually having the seiyuu reading the lines which might end up disrupting the flow of the scene.

Anyhow, I do view the novel and the adaptation as two different entities. The anime does tell the story in its own way and does it really well. This thing I was saying about the lack of inner thoughts and monologues is not a problem that I have with the anime Toradora! in particular, it's more like a problem I have with visual mediums in comparison to novels. Hmm... I think it would be unfair of me to compare them. If I never read the novels I wouldn't have had anything to say about that after all. =)
Simply put there is far more actual story being told in the novels than there is in the anime. It would take three or four seasons to duplicate the novel storytelling in its entirety, and it does disappoint me it had to be rushed so much to tell it in one season, but I'm grateful the anime was made either way.
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Old 2009-04-11, 21:20   Link #89
Darknemo2000
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I don't think that three seasons were necessarily. It may have flashed all the stuff well but at the same time it may be too long. After all taiga and Ryuuji are not Horo and Lawrence who can make even slow paced and rather dull at times episode shine just through their verbal duels. So though the very slow paced stuff works well with Spice and Wolf it may be hard for Toradora to do the same as the main characters in Toradora are quite a bit less witty. At the same time Toradora has more impressive side characters than Spice and Wolf, where it relies mostly on awesomeness of its two main leads, so who knows.

But even then three seasons would be too excessive. At the same time I still hold on my opinion, that for this show to be really great it had to be somewhere around 36 episodes long, so that we would have avoided the over-rushing that happened in the series (most notable examples are episodes 23 and 24) and giving such great characters like Ami bit more depth than it was due to time restrictions.

Decision to put 10 volumes of novels (not manga) in 25 episodes is a suicide, but JC Staff did a decent job, even though near the end they screwed up with the pace, but this was unavoidable simply because Toradora should have never been just 25 episodes to begin with.
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Old 2009-04-11, 22:10   Link #90
Fishman
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Originally Posted by Meatrose View Post
I don't know if my last post made you include me in this group of viewers or not, but I just wanted to say that I did not read the source material before watching the anime. I began reading the novels after having watched more than half the show, and I never read a novel until it had been fully covered by the adaptation. The only exception would be episode 19 as I finished the seventh novel before it aired.

Also, 7/10 is a very high rating coming from me. I use proportional comparative scaling when I rate my anime which means that every show that I see is compared to the best anime I ever saw (the 10s) as well as the worst anime I ever saw (the 1s) before I decide to which section of the scale this anime that I recently finished watching belongs. I'm also kinda strict and out of the ~450 anime productions I've seen, less than 20 got rewarded with 7/10 or higher ratings. My average rating is 4,1/10. Me giving Toradora! 7/10 points does not mean that I thought it was just "good", it basically means I'm praising it. It's in my "Top 5%" after all.

About what you said about the monologues; I also don't think that they're absolutely necessary. I love how Toradora! attempts to show the audience the difference between deep love and a crush without claiming that it's strictly impossible for a crush to grow into love over time. The anime made it pretty clear that Ryuuji and Taiga had much deeper feelings for one another than they had for their respective crushes, and did so pretty early in the show. Some things are definitely lost in adaptation though. Already in the first novel (= episodes 1 and 2) we learn that Ryuuji's heart tends to beat faster when he makes eye contact with Taiga, that he has to force himself to remain calm when he realizes he's going to get to touch her body while helping her with the stretching exercises in PE, that he's very aware of her warm body when he puts his hands on her back and the fact he can almost make out the outline of her underwear under her PE uniform. While standing behind her he even lets us know that seeing the smooth, white skin on her neck is enough to make one's heart race. The anime does not convey the characters' thoughts and feelings this well, as it would be impossible to do so. I still think that by implementing some of these inner thoughts they would have been able to add some extra depth to the main cast, and that would've made the show even better, especially since the best part about the show (in my opinion) was its characters.

The characters are incredibly important to me. They're even more important than the story itself. Don't get me wrong, the story is of course incredibly important too, but a great story is wasted if it revolves around characters you don't really care about. To get to know their inner thoughts means that we get to know them and their feelings to a degree that is more or less out of reach for an adaptation to a visual medium. This does not mean that the adaptation failed in any way. All it means is that books are generally far superior to movies and TV series in terms of character depth in my opinion. That's also why I never compare movies and TV series to books when I rate them, only to other movies and TV series.
I like your review, do you have a site or blog where I can view them?
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Old 2009-04-12, 03:55   Link #91
hyl
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Originally Posted by fish eric View Post
I gave most episodes 8, 9 or 10. Like most people I believe the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. I am ranking this series as a 10. It is one of my favorite animes. Actually one of my favorite stories regardless of medium.

I would like to clear up what I believe are a couple of misconceptions. The first is concerning the artwork of the show. There were arguably parts where the "quality" suffered, but I don't believe it is the same parts that people are complaining about. I am reading that some people think that the Sumire vs Taiga & Minori vs Taiga fight scenes suffered from low "quality". I understand that some didn't like the way that scene was animated, but I think it's unfair to JCstaff to say the "quality" was poor or not done very well.
Actually the quality of episode 23 was a bit lacking, you can especially see that at the end of the episode where Minorin "exploded" on Taiga.
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Old 2009-04-12, 04:37   Link #92
Kaisos Erranon
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Actually the quality of episode 23 was a bit lacking, you can especially see that at the end of the episode where Minorin "exploded" on Taiga.
As with episode 16, completely intentional. Sacrificing art quality for better movements is fairly common.
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Old 2009-04-12, 07:01   Link #93
Meatrose
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Originally Posted by brain View Post
Simply put there is far more actual story being told in the novels than there is in the anime. It would take three or four seasons to duplicate the novel storytelling in its entirety, and it does disappoint me it had to be rushed so much to tell it in one season, but I'm grateful the anime was made either way.
Oh yeah, I'm also very happy it was made. I dare to say it'll most certainly be one of my top 3 shows for 2009. And yes, there's far more content in the novels than there is in the anime, but I wouldn't have wanted a 1:1 recreation of that material. The result would probably have been too slow paced for TV since it would include all thoughts and monologues. I think the show was fine the way it was, though I would have liked to see them flesh it out some more. Add a third cour (make it 36 episodes), include some (but just some) inner thoughts, include more scenes from the novel, show Ami some love and lower the pacing slightly. That way I think the adaptation would have been as good as it could possibly be. It would probably not have made a huge difference though, and I think they're not very far from having used the content to something that resembles its full potential. For an adaptation that had to fit 10 Light Novels into 25 episodes it did very well in my opinion. =)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishman View Post
I like your review, do you have a site or blog where I can view them?
Thanks, but I'm sorry, I don't have anything like that to be honest. I post most of my reviews on another board but those are written in my first language (Swedish).
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Old 2009-04-12, 07:12   Link #94
hyl
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
As with episode 16, completely intentional. Sacrificing art quality for better movements is fairly common.
I am aware that the art was intentional for the fight scene for episode 16, but the scene in episode 23 barely had any mentionable movements (the scene lasted a little more than 2 minutes and there were less than 30 seconds of "better movements") to sacrifice the overall art of the entire episode.
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Old 2009-04-12, 08:15   Link #95
typhonsentra
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The scene in 23 you're talking about, I only noticed the big changes in two parts: When Minori grabbed Taiga up to when Taiga was escaping and got caught at the door and in that one close-up of Minori's face when she was yelling at Taiga while she had her pinned at the door. As far as the art change, I just thought of it as the same thing as that one fight between Naruto and Sasuke at the end of Naruto, which I liked.
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Old 2009-04-13, 05:42   Link #96
fish eric
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
As with episode 16, completely intentional. Sacrificing art quality for better movements is fairly common.
exactly it was intentional. they changed the style in those scenes on purpose. it has nothing to do with quality.

notice how the sumire taiga fight and the minori taiga fight are both done in the same style?


Its funny that in this forum some people call this style low quality, but if it was in a Quentin Tarantino film other people would hail it as artistic genius.
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Old 2009-04-13, 13:49   Link #97
Kaisos Erranon
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Its funny that in this forum some people call this style low quality, but if it was in a Quentin Tarantino film other people would hail it as artistic genius.
FRAMING

Anime fans have this tendency to look for flaws in ANYTHING just so they can complain about them.

I don't know why.
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Old 2009-04-13, 19:45   Link #98
SageGaiGar
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It's called bitching for Bitching's sake.

Art style reflected how rough things were going at that moment.

And people should stop demanding picture shows in animation, that's what manga and light novel illustrations are for. But meh, people will complain to complain.
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Old 2009-04-13, 19:58   Link #99
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And others will bitch about those who bitch. Closed cycle.
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Old 2009-04-13, 21:30   Link #100
Ashlotte
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Went with 8 but then I tend to be overly critical about series once their finished and I can stew over em abit.

Probably woulda been a 9, but the ending just felt too much like they ran out of time and couldn't quite develop things properly for everyone (Not just Taiga and Ryu...). Still well worth the watch in the end though as far as romance series go.
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