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Old 2009-04-15, 13:02   Link #261
Master Mold
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko
We're not ignoring Whitebeard's title as the most powerful pirate in the world.
Guess you missed out on a few pages, I don't blame you..
Theres more arguments being tossed around in here, then balls at a Chunky Cheese play pin.

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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
The Yonkou for example? Until recently, the Yonkou and WG avoided eachother. You'll note that everyone was calling the move to execute Ace an act of madness, and more importantly, a declaration of war. This means that there wasn't a war between them until this incident.
Quote:
Shanks: Go... get the ship ready!!

Roo: To Whitebeard's place?!

Shanks: Yeah, that's right.

Beckman: Do you think the governments are going to sit back and let that happen?!

Shanks: ...I'm not worried about that.

- Page 161 -

Shanks: The governments may not try to let this happen...
but if they interfere, we won't stay quiet about it either...!!!

Roo: YAAAHOOO!!! GET READY BOYS!!! WE'RE GOIN' TO BATTLE!!!

Shanks: Yeah!!! Get our best rum!!

Quote:
I've never claimed the title of most wanted to be one of strength. In fact, I argued against that.
Good to know.

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No they don't. The Yonkou don't fight the World Government, in fact they prefer to avoid fighting them if possible (hell, Shanks and his crew don't even pick fights to begin with). That's why the execution of Ace was called a 'declaration of war' because if forced Whitebeard to do something he otherwise would never have done: Attack the World Government.
Werther or not the Yonkou prefer to avoid the WG, does not take away from the fact they fight the WG. Since the WG is against piracy. I think you have the words fighting and overthrowing mixed up.



Quote:
Hell, one of the Yonkou (Kaidou I believe) even tried to stop Whitebeard.
Quote:
Marine: Red-Hair's started up a skirmish in the New World!

Momonga: Red-Hair? You sure you've got that right?
Why now? And who's it with?

Marine: Kaidoh of the Four Emperors!!
Kaidoh's been announcing his intention of taking down Whitebeard,
and HQ believes Red-Hair may have intercepted him! Everyone's on edge!
Quote:
So no, the Yonkou are not trying to fight the World Government.
Again, I think you have the words fighting and overthrowing mixed up.

Quote:
Dragon is the person kicking the scale, trying to make it collapse.
LOL! The WG seems like the only ones atp doing that.

Quote:
Yeah, but as others as others have pointed out, Dragon isn't a pirate.
Just cuz Dragon ain't a Pirate, don't take away from the fact that its still a great show of strength on the Whitebeard Pirates part.

Any way, I have lost interest in this discussion, but if you gents want to contiue be my guest, and have the last say on this topic.

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Originally Posted by cheese4u View Post
Seven Armed Seas? Are you referring to the shichibukai?
Why Yes. lit. Seven Armed Seas

Last edited by Master Mold; 2009-04-15 at 13:53.
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Old 2009-04-15, 14:07   Link #262
Keroko
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Originally Posted by JINBEI View Post
*quote about Shanks going to battle*
Yeah, you know, that's why I said 'until recently.' Until recently being prior to Ace's capture and execution anouncement.

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Originally Posted by JINBEI View Post
Werther or not the Yonkou prefer to avoid the WG, does not take away from the fact they fight the WG. Since the WG is against piracy. I think you have the words fighting and overthrowing mixed up.
Perhaps there is a misunderstanding. When I say 'fight' I mean 'go out of their way to attack World Government forces'

Pirates avoid World Government forces if they can, therefore they're not fighting the World Government, merely attacking targets of oportunity.

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Originally Posted by JINBEI View Post
LOL! The WG seems like the only ones atp doing that.
Hence why everyone is wondering if the World Government has gone out of their minds.

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Originally Posted by JINBEI View Post
Just cuz Dragon ain't a Pirate, don't take away from the fact that its still a great show of strength on the Whitebeard Pirates part.
I'm not arguing that. In fact, I agree with you. However, I disagree that this show of strength is proof that the Whitebeard pirates are stronger then the Revolution.
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Old 2009-04-15, 14:15   Link #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
However, I disagree that this show of strength is proof that the Whitebeard pirates are stronger then the Revolution.
It seems a lot of people tried to get the same point through, and failed at the end with the same person. To accept that possibility goes against the core belief that the world you think you created cannot go against your will. That is why the line talking about Whitebeard will absorb every other possibility and suggestion based on the content of the story, like a black hole, and not permit them to breathe fresh air.
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Old 2009-04-15, 14:25   Link #264
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Originally Posted by holypanl View Post
But we ARE pretty much eleven years into the manga right now, and it's almost time to move into the New World. If they don't pull out the stops now, then when ARE we going to see the biggest and Baddest?


To slightly rephrase what I said, I think it would be a bit soon to bring in a possible dragon Zoan as an opponent at this point. I've already stated in the past that I have no objections to any more major characters being introduced before we reach the New World, but having the Straw-Hats face them at this stage is a different story. A dragon Zoan sounds like the type of high-level enemy that would be encountered in the NW, rather than any location in the GL's first half. We just had the crew deal with a major loss at Sabaody (and not to mention Luffy's recent loss against Magellan). Any more losses against overwhelming odds would just be plain overkill for the crew at this point......
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Old 2009-04-15, 14:33   Link #265
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I think you are exaggerating the strength of that zoan ability. Drake has a dinasour-based zoan ability, which can be considered as unique as a dragon type, and it still was not enough against the new world level. So, this example is enough reason to believe that the dragon-type may also be around the similar strength level too, if wanted. And, I think straw hats have enough strength to overcome a regular zoan type opponent, considering their experience against the real strong ones.
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Old 2009-04-15, 14:38   Link #266
holypanl
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Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
To slightly rephrase what I said, I think it would be a bit soon to bring in a possible dragon Zoan as an opponent at this point. I've already stated in the past that I have no objections to any more major characters being introduced before we reach the New World, but having the Straw-Hats face them at this stage is a different story. A dragon Zoan sounds like the type of high-level enemy that would be encountered in the NW, rather than any location in the GL's first half. We just had the crew deal with a major loss at Sabaody (and not to mention Luffy's recent loss against Magellan). Any more losses against overwhelming odds would just be plain overkill for the crew at this point......
True true...definitely very logical. But it could, if done well, also serve as a sort of...New World Entrance sentinel reality check for the Strawhats. For example:

There exists a pirate crew, named the Abyssal Crew, or something like that. And their captain is the user of the Dragon Zoan. He just, for one reason or other (not inconceivable, since all of the world powers are very agitated and restless right now), has decided to cross into the first half of Grand Line.

And just as the Strawhats are crossing into the New World, just after emerging from Merman Isle, and from under the Red Line, they meet him, just ready to go under, coming in the horizon. A bloody, and gaulish, dangerous pirate beyond measure.

And he devastates them without mercy.

They only barely manage to survive by some miraculous occurence of a small land mass just about a quarter mile into the distance. No ship. Broken spirits.

But I get you either way, too.
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Then they came for me!
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Old 2009-04-15, 14:55   Link #267
james0246
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Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
To slightly rephrase what I said, I think it would be a bit soon to bring in a possible dragon Zoan as an opponent at this point. I've already stated in the past that I have no objections to any more major characters being introduced before we reach the New World, but having the Straw-Hats face them at this stage is a different story. A dragon Zoan sounds like the type of high-level enemy that would be encountered in the NW, rather than any location in the GL's first half. We just had the crew deal with a major loss at Sabaody (and not to mention Luffy's recent loss against Magellan). Any more losses against overwhelming odds would just be plain overkill for the crew at this point......
I think you are hyping a Dragon type Zoan a bit much (It's not like it would actually be able to grant wishes, you know ). In fact, I would place better odds on Luffy defeating a Zoan, than the Poisonous Paramecia/Logia user.
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Old 2009-04-15, 15:19   Link #268
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ID has already strong posion men and many many mosters. Devil furits are unique and it would be a waste to give a super one to someone that will be only seen through half of this arc, and then wanish from our memory. It's not like someone would like to have one like Okama Eric.
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Old 2009-04-15, 15:20   Link #269
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Overhyping a dragon Zoan? I dunno.... I mean, just look how powerful Lucci was, and he's a leopard (those cats are pretty unremarkable when compared to lions or tigers). I'd imagine that a dragon Zoan would be pretty darn scary, especially if the user in question is no slouch in combat, either.....



...Of course, that's only considering if that particular Zoan type does appear in the series at all. But it's definitely possible if we've got dino fruit users appearing now. Plus, we could use more reptilian-type Zoans anyway.
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Old 2009-04-15, 15:24   Link #270
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But would it be wise to waste such fine fruit now? Considering how scary Magellan looks, it will be hard to impress us now, and this "dragon user" will lose all his hard work intro after we see Whitebeard in action.
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Old 2009-04-15, 15:32   Link #271
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But would it be wise to waste such fine fruit now? Considering how scary Magellan looks, it will be hard to impress us now, and this "dragon user" will lose all his hard work intro after we see Whitebeard in action.


I already said that I wouldn't expect to see a dragon DF at this point, so I certainly do share your sentiments. I actually think it would be fitting for such a user to be an antagonist in the Wano country arc, since Samurai Ryuuma was known to slay a dragon there......
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Old 2009-04-15, 15:35   Link #272
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Going by marvelB's logic, I think it's more than safe to say a well trained Dragon Zoan is MORE than a threat. Who knows: the last Yonkou could be something as inspirational as this, however small the chances.

And the way I imagine a Dragon Zoan to be is pretty strong all by itself. In just the Human-Zoan form (half form), I imagine that anyone with a Dragon Zoan ability would have a set of super charp claws that could cut through anything. Plus jaws that could crush worse than Arlong.

Then I imagine a heightened sense of smell and sight, and, of course, super speed.

I imagine that in full dragon form, the super strength and speed would increase to approximately 6000 Douriki worth of power, and the heightened senses would go into overdrive, with the persona being able to hear, see and smell anything within about 100-200 metres. Then add the scales for defense. And the claws that might be so fast they could use air pressure to cut.

Um...need I even go on to add the possibility of fire-breathing? Nah...that would be overkill.
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First they went for communists: and I didn't speak out, not being a communist;
Then they came for trade unionists, and I said naught because I wasn't a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews: and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew;

Then they came for me!
...and there was no one left to speak out for me.
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Old 2009-04-15, 16:10   Link #273
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Originally Posted by holypanl View Post
Going by marvelB's logic, I think it's more than safe to say a well trained Dragon Zoan is MORE than a threat. Who knows: the last Yonkou could be something as inspirational as this, however small the chances.

And the way I imagine a Dragon Zoan to be is pretty strong all by itself. In just the Human-Zoan form (half form), I imagine that anyone with a Dragon Zoan ability would have a set of super charp claws that could cut through anything. Plus jaws that could crush worse than Arlong.

Then I imagine a heightened sense of smell and sight, and, of course, super speed.

I imagine that in full dragon form, the super strength and speed would increase to approximately 6000 Douriki worth of power, and the heightened senses would go into overdrive, with the persona being able to hear, see and smell anything within about 100-200 metres. Then add the scales for defense. And the claws that might be so fast they could use air pressure to cut.

Um...need I even go on to add the possibility of fire-breathing? Nah...that would be overkill.
and maybe fart lightingbolts... sorry

Well, most animals have high senses.

Abillites depends on what kind of dragon would it be: eastern or western kind.

Western dragon tend to be fat and unpropotional wings, while western grand wishes XD
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Old 2009-04-15, 16:28   Link #274
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Overhyping a dragon Zoan? I dunno.... I mean, just look how powerful Lucci was, and he's a leopard (those cats are pretty unremarkable when compared to lions or tigers). I'd imagine that a dragon Zoan would be pretty darn scary, especially if the user in question is no slouch in combat, either.....

Once I thought the same as you, that Dragons were great and powerful, but then...American Dragon: Jake Long was made...

...Need I say more . (The DnD inspired Futurama movie did not help dragons either...)

Seriously though, while he may or may not be a Dragon (as I said before, that was simply a supposition based on the similarty between names), I actually do think that Shiryuu will be a Zoan. Predator type Zoans, unlike other DF users, almost always appear bloodthirsty, and Shiryuu in the one scene we have with him so far is almost the epitome of bloodthirsty.

Besides, Zoans are always cool to watch battle, and giving the character a Logia ability seems a bit much right now (considering that Luffy's fighting force consists of two gender-benders and a half-dead dooped Rubber Man ). Then again, he could just be a swordsman...
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Old 2009-04-15, 17:05   Link #275
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What Zoan are good is strange design for animal, that Oda loves. But we have lots of that with all those monsters and superbeasts in ID already.

The reason why nobody wants Shyuuu(sp) to be a normal badass swordfighter is because that is Zoro's speciality and most people believe that if he was then Zoro would have to face him even if that would mean teleporting him here right now or bringing back this character later on.
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Old 2009-04-15, 17:12   Link #276
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Against a poison power, it might have been Brook who might have performed well without dying, but he was also absent during the fights. And there is no guarantee that Shiryuu will not attack Magellan if he was freed. He is currently a criminal, and for someone like him, depriving him of his soul food would be a much bigger sin than letting a criminal get freed. So, at that point, it wouldn't matter what his power is. But, it is quite likely to have something to do with swords. Otherwise, why show him in human form holding a sword that has a lot of blood on it.
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Old 2009-04-15, 17:46   Link #277
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Originally Posted by Fipskuul View Post
Against a poison power, it might have been Brook who might have performed well without dying, but he was also absent during the fights. And there is no guarantee that Shiryuu will not attack Magellan if he was freed. He is currently a criminal, and for someone like him, depriving him of his soul food would be a much bigger sin than letting a criminal get freed. So, at that point, it wouldn't matter what his power is. But, it is quite likely to have something to do with swords. Otherwise, why show him in human form holding a sword that has a lot of blood on it.
Maybe he was making himself sandwitches with jam...
I'm guessing that most of those lvl6 prisoners will be freed or at least shown and talked to.
I remember smallone saying some time ago that people that were imprisoned and tortured might get weaker, and we might see that, but after seeing Bon-chan kicking Shinx ass I somehow doubt that.
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Old 2009-04-15, 17:52   Link #278
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I highly doubt that neither Luffy nor Iva would want to free people like Crocodile (though it would be interesting to see Iva turning him into a female). Anyways, there may be accidents in freeing some of those, but going further than that, and letting loose many of those criminals intentionally would not be something that Luffy would want. And considering that there are actually government people there to fight against them, that may not even be allowed. They may not find the time to do that, so they may need to focus only on jinbei and ace (and other revolutionaries, if there is any).
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Old 2009-04-15, 18:00   Link #279
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No...I think Brooke could have been severely damaged also. Remember that a lot of those poisons were also acidic. When MAgellan attacked Luffy the brick as burned by some of the poison.

Magellan is, point blank, one of the most powerful fruit possessors ever. End of story.

@James: Well, Reign of fire was, imho, a great depiction of dragons' legendary strength.

And to that guy...just now let me scroll up and see his name...Wolcik...it's not inconceivable for a dragon to breath fire. That's what dragons do. Most mythical tales of dragons tell that Dragons breath fire. It's pretty much laid down in folklore canon.

The most impressive thing so far though, is how the prison really has no clue of a whole dugout tunnel festering with transvestites, who constantly drink and make incessant noise, not even bothering to try to hide the fact that they exist. It's really illogical.

I'll never let go of that one. One Piece has some very illogical moments, such as the Going Merry magically sailing its way to Enies Lobby, but I think this takes the cake.

I hope a really great battle sequence consummates this illogic, because it will really leave a lot wanting if it doesn't.

I'm fed up of pointing this out, but: Why are the Strawhats still moving around so freely with a captain who has a bounty of B$ 300,000,000? The first mate is a supernova, and all the rest of the crew are worth an average of 20-30 mil each. These people should be seen as dangerous.

We have yet to see Oda introduce any serious attempts on the crew by a serious gang of Bounty Hunters. I think Bounty Hunters should get a bit more prime. I mean honestly: with all of these huge money-mine heads sailing around, why are there no skilled Bounty Hunters with big enough names? (Please, since I know you're out there, I'll just appeal to you beforehand: don't mention Zoro. He doesn't count.)
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Rev. Niemöller, on Nazi Germany:

First they went for communists: and I didn't speak out, not being a communist;
Then they came for trade unionists, and I said naught because I wasn't a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews: and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew;

Then they came for me!
...and there was no one left to speak out for me.
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Old 2009-04-15, 18:02   Link #280
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Heh, maybe Shiryuu has the blood-based DF power that some of us (myself included) expected Akainu to possess. If so, then a sword probably isn't his only weapon since he should be able to manipulate the iron in blood to create different kinds of weapons. It would probably be more fitting for such a DF user to reside in Impel Down, considering the grim atmosphere of the prison.....
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