AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > General > General Chat

Notices

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 2009-04-15, 18:37   Link #1
Shadow Kira01
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: PMB Headquarters
North Korea Crisis

Considering what North Korea has recently done, I think this topic definitely deserves its own thread. Here are some links that will provide valuable information on the situation:

United Nations Security Council Resolution 1718

N. Korea ejects IAEA inspectors from Yongbyon nuclear facilities
North Korea Expelling US Monitors From Reactor Site

0000

North Korea is now going out of control. Not just that they dare defy the international community's strong protests and test-fired a ballistic missile in the disguise of a "satellite", they are now going to improve their missile and nuclear capabilities due to their failed "satellite" test. This is clearly a severe violation of the United Nations Security Councile Resolution 1718. They are now going to stop six-party talks from advancing by not participating in it which means that the six-party talks concept was trash to begin with.

Whose idea was it to have six-party talks? Oh wait, isn't it the same country that is currently urging the world to remain calm about North Korea's recent defiances? It is also the same country that is unwilling to cooperate on the issue of North Korea at the United Nations Security Council, forcing Japan and the United States to stick to a press statement rather than a presidential statement meaning that it is merely an act of drama rather an actual effective plan to pressure North Korea to cease their hostile attitudes. China is definitely an obstacle to resolving the North Korea crisis and that if this very fact is ignored, North Korea will definitely be encouraged to continue their acts of aggression from now on..

Unfortunately, nothing can be done at this moment since China and Russia are both veto-wielding members of the UNSC. In this case, the United Nations Security Council is useless.

I do acknowledge that there are many different types of voices on AnimeSuki and that many of you are just as knowledgeable as I am when it comes to global issues, so what do you guys think of this issue?
__________________
Shadow Kira01 is offline  
Old 2009-04-15, 18:44   Link #2
Tiberium Wolf
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Age: 34
I think this issue is the same as the middle east one. No solution on sight coz some parties simply don't keep their word and resort to provocation. As usual the UNSC is useless.
__________________
Tiberium Wolf is offline  
Old 2009-04-15, 19:07   Link #3
RandomGuy
ここに居ってんねん
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Osaka
Age: 29
No offense, but this has all been going on for quite a while. See, for example, 1998's launch of a Taepodong-1 missile over Japan, 2006's failed launch of a Taepodong-2, or 2006's partially-successful nuclear test.

North Korea's government likes to be a provocateur, for the propaganda coups these events score at home, and the supposed bargaining-chip it gives them when dealing with other countries. Truth be told, all the saber-rattling really hurts their position, but with the politics of Kim Jong-il, the reasoning doesn't exactly have to be sound for a policy to be embraced. It's all about glorifying Dear Leader, and with total control over the national media, they create their own reality, while refusing to acknowledge that of the outside world.

Last edited by RandomGuy; 2009-04-15 at 19:19.
RandomGuy is offline  
Old 2009-04-15, 19:29   Link #4
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
Russia and China find it useful to have North Korea keeping the US+allies a bit off-balance. Personally, I think its a bit of "tiger-by-the-tail" gamesmanship.
North Korea has been pulling these stunts periodically since *I* was a toddler 50 years ago. At least once a decade, they get a bit looney like this, because the leadership wants to feel important, they want to maintain control within, there's a LOT of hubris as well as practical calculation in these apparently "damn fool" stunts.

It is fascinating to watch the remaining countries and small sectors of the planet who have such a vastly divergent interpretation of reality....
__________________
Vexx is offline  
Old 2009-04-15, 19:38   Link #5
Xellos-_^
Married
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Russia and China find it useful to have North Korea keeping the US+allies a bit off-balance. Personally, I think its a bit of "tiger-by-the-tail" gamesmanship.
North Korea has been pulling these stunts periodically since *I* was a toddler 50 years ago. At least once a decade, they get a bit looney like this, because the leadership wants to feel important, they want to maintain control within, there's a LOT of hubris as well as practical calculation in these apparently "damn fool" stunts.

It is fascinating to watch the remaining countries and small sectors of the planet who have such a vastly divergent interpretation of reality....
i don't think their view of reality is that off. This is all calculated to get aid for their regime. The crazier they act the more aid they can get and the less concession they give up. It its like the puffer fish that itself up to act like they are bigger then they really are. It is a act and everyone knows it and it is also a act that is wearing thin.
__________________
Xellos-_^ is offline  
Old 2009-04-15, 19:45   Link #6
Shay
Monarch Programmer
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Liverpool
Age: 33
I think the guy is crazy enough to want to go out with a bang (literally)

Kim aint getting any younger and he's the absolute epitome of one who wants to remembered and talked about for a long time to come.

Unstable dictators need to be controlled at all costs, and frankly the UN seem incapable.
__________________
Current Anime - Attack on Titan
Current Manga - Naruto
Current Book - Waiting for War of the Roses
Current Album - Vessel by Twenty One Pilots
Shay is offline  
Old 2009-04-15, 19:58   Link #7
Lathdrinor
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Like with Cuba, this probably won't be resolved by outside forces. If North Korea is going to change, that change is going to come from the country itself. Watch the leadership transition; that will tell you where it's all going.

Bottom line: nobody wants to fight North Korea, especially not since they have enough missiles to turn Seoul into a sea of fire, and also do a lot of damage to Japan. China also stands to gain from North Korea remaining a separate country because South Korea is an US ally, in which case reunification = US bases on China's border = very frightening to China from a geopolitical point of view. It's like Russia's fear of US bases in the Caucasus.
Lathdrinor is offline  
Old 2009-04-15, 20:07   Link #8
Xellos-_^
Married
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shay View Post
I think the guy is crazy enough to want to go out with a bang (literally)

Kim aint getting any younger and he's the absolute epitome of one who wants to remembered and talked about for a long time to come.

Unstable dictators need to be controlled at all costs, and frankly the UN seem incapable.
He might but i don't anyone else in the NK gov't wants to die with him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lathdrinor View Post
Like with Cuba, this probably won't be resolved by outside forces. If North Korea is going to change, that change is going to come from the country itself. Watch the leadership transition; that will tell you where it's all going.

Bottom line: nobody wants to fight North Korea, especially not since they have enough missiles to turn Seoul into a sea of fire, and also do a lot of damage to Japan. China also stands to gain from North Korea remaining a separate country because South Korea is an US ally, in which case reunification = US bases on China's border = very frightening to China from a geopolitical point of view. It's like Russia's fear of US bases in the Caucasus.
ah, no one wants to fight NK not becuase they are afriad of his army or weapon arsenal, which is ill equip and out of date. They are afraid of what happens after they defeat the current NK gov't, who is going to pay the trillions needed to fix that country? you have 10 to 20 million poor illiteral refugees who needs to feed and taught to live in the 21st century. The whole country needs to be rebuilt form scratch.
__________________
Xellos-_^ is offline  
Old 2009-04-15, 20:18   Link #9
Lathdrinor
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
ah, no one wants to fight NK not becuase they are afriad of his army or weapon arsenal, which is ill equip and out of date. They are afraid of what happens after they defeat the current NK gov't, who is going to pay the trillions needed to fix that country? you have 10 to 20 million poor illiteral refugees who needs to feed and taught to live in the 21st century. The whole country needs to be rebuilt form scratch.
You underestimate the damage North Korea can do.
Lathdrinor is offline  
Old 2009-04-15, 20:35   Link #10
Kamui4356
Aria Company
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lathdrinor View Post
You underestimate the damage North Korea can do.
You overestimate that damage. Still, both you and Xellos-_^ have very valid points here. North Korea can do a lot of damage to Seoul, and the cost of rebuilding the North after the inevitable victory would be enormous.
__________________
Kamui4356 is offline  
Old 2009-04-15, 20:38   Link #11
iLney
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
I don't understand. If the US wants NK be a wasteland, it will be, even without the use of nuclear weapons. And it'll happen so fast the NK won't be able to do anything.

Or Japan should be allowed to rearm herself
iLney is offline  
Old 2009-04-15, 20:39   Link #12
Mgz
Madlax fanboyz
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Alberta, Canada
Age: 28
Send a message via Yahoo to Mgz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post

ah, no one wants to fight NK not becuase they are afriad of his army or weapon arsenal, which is ill equip and out of date. They are afraid of what happens after they defeat the current NK gov't, who is going to pay the trillions needed to fix that country? you have 10 to 20 million poor illiteral refugees who needs to feed and taught to live in the 21st century. The whole country needs to be rebuilt form scratch.
WHAT????their literacy rate is like 99% just like every other communist countries. They do care a lot about education, also after all they are Asian .

And their engineering capability is top nought , not many countries in the world can handle nuclear reactor, missile etc like them , if only they spend all of those R&D money on other "peaceful" technology :'(

Personally I think it is so unfair, Pakistan and India can test anything they want and nobody gives a damn, but when NK farted a little and everyone makes a big deal about it.
Mgz is offline  
Old 2009-04-15, 20:58   Link #13
solomon
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Suburban DC
I am egalitarian too, but N.K. hasn't shown any proof that they wouldn't just use the nuclear power for weapons, quite simply I can't believe they would use them for anything else. The development for energy could probably only be used for a portion of the capital, no where else given the shitty infrastructure the country has. As much as I am not into large power play politics NK is NOT a regime that needs nukes.
solomon is offline  
Old 2009-04-15, 20:58   Link #14
Lathdrinor
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLney View Post
I don't understand. If the US wants NK be a wasteland, it will be, even without the use of nuclear weapons. And it'll happen so fast the NK won't be able to do anything.

Or Japan should be allowed to rearm herself
A large-scale operation will likely be detected before it is executed. If North Korea believes that an attack is imminent, there's no telling what they'll do. Again, people tend to underestimate North Korea's combat capability; that's easy to do on an internet message board, but in the real world, with millions of lives at stake, would you really risk it?

Last edited by Lathdrinor; 2009-04-15 at 21:18.
Lathdrinor is offline  
Old 2009-04-15, 21:05   Link #15
Kamui4356
Aria Company
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita.../dprk-dark.htm

A page with a satellite image of the region at night. You can tell where North Korea's border with South Korea and China are, because that's where the lights stop. Not completely relevent, but something to consider.
__________________
Kamui4356 is offline  
Old 2009-04-15, 21:21   Link #16
iLney
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lathdrinor View Post
A large-scale operation will almost certainly be detected before it is executed. If North Korea believes that an attack is imminent, there's no telling what they'll do. Again, people tend to underestimate North Korea's combat capability; that's easy to do on an internet message board, but in the real world, with millions of lives at stake, would you really risk it?
Hmm, I believe that nuclear subs are invisible? I don't "risk" it because I believe that the US army can. The problem is if the US hits NK too hard (even without nuclear weapons), it will make the image of the US look really, really bad. And yes, no one wants to rebuild that country.
iLney is offline  
Old 2009-04-15, 21:24   Link #17
Lathdrinor
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLney View Post
Hmm, I believe that nuclear subs are invisible? I don't "risk" it because I believe that the US army can. The problem is if the US hits NK too hard (even without nuclear weapons), it will make the image of the US look really, really bad. And yes, no one wants to rebuild that country.
You might be able to get away with nuking North Korea preemptively, but no one is going to consider that unless a nuclear attack from North Korea is imminent; the humanitarian costs would be catastrophic, and the US would be seen as a nuclear war monger.
Lathdrinor is offline  
Old 2009-04-15, 21:28   Link #18
Kamui4356
Aria Company
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLney View Post
Hmm, I believe that nuclear subs are invisible? I don't "risk" it because I believe that the US army can. The problem is if the US hits NK too hard (even without nuclear weapons), it will make the image of the US look really, really bad. And yes, no one wants to rebuild that country.
Even if you could get that first strike in, it'll take prolonged air campaign to take out the North Korean artillery pointed at Seoul. Or nukes, which obvously have problems of their own.
__________________
Kamui4356 is offline  
Old 2009-04-15, 21:29   Link #19
Shadow Kira01
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: PMB Headquarters
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lathdrinor View Post
A large-scale operation will likely be detected before it is executed. If North Korea believes that an attack is imminent, there's no telling what they'll do. Again, people tend to underestimate North Korea's combat capability; that's easy to do on an internet message board, but in the real world, with millions of lives at stake, would you really risk it?
As another individual, I dare face North Korea heads on. However, people who have millions of people's lives on their shoulders will not be able to do reckless actions meaning that this is definitely not worth the risk!

Perhaps, I am over-estimating North Korea's military capacity but the fact is that even a mere attack from their Rodong-1 arsenal could deal some damage on Japanese mainland, considering that missile intercepter technology isn't very advanced. Unless you can intercept every missile launched, there will always be a chance of casualty and property damage. Thus, it is best to take the situation more cautiously but doing nothing isn't right either..

Truth is that North Korea didn't just started their military ambitions but decades back. Only problem is that there are new developments and these new developments are definitely not a good sign. They are going to restart their Yongbyon nuclear facility very soon.
__________________
Shadow Kira01 is offline  
Old 2009-04-15, 21:32   Link #20
yezhanquan
Observer/Bookman wannabe
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 29
The fact remains that no one wants to pick up the bill on bringing NK to the 21st century. Not SK, not Japan, not the US, not the PRC. As I said before, it's the elephant in the living room which no one wants to talk about, but the thing refuses to go away.
__________________
yezhanquan is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:04.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.