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Old 2009-04-15, 10:35   Link #1981
Arkeus
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yes, does that mean your arm is a wire too?
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Old 2009-04-15, 10:38   Link #1982
The Guy Named Zeo
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How did you get that from what Goose said?
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Old 2009-04-15, 10:42   Link #1983
Arkeus
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How did you get that from what Goose said?
Goose's post wasn't yet on when i wrote my reponse ^^;;;

What i meant is, it may have a flexible form, but it doesn't mean it's not coherent in its form. No need to give it badly applied science.
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Old 2009-04-15, 10:48   Link #1984
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yes, does that mean your arm is a wire too?
No, but it does have "wires" (nerves) running through it.
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Old 2009-04-15, 10:49   Link #1985
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Originally Posted by Arkeus View Post
Goose's post wasn't yet on when i wrote my reponse ^^;;;

What i meant is, it may have a flexible form, but it doesn't mean it's not coherent in its form. No need to give it badly applied science.
Well that makes me feel quite silly

Know that I know that I have to agree with you, know that I know who you were talking to.
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Old 2009-04-15, 10:56   Link #1986
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Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
At some point, Reverand Professor, one has to say, "Fuck it, this is magic" and move along.

Hell, how do you explain Funnels, which are not wire guided and are used where radio communication is impossible due to M-particle interferance?
I suppose you meant Nanoha's funnels and not the funnels in Gundam.

First, we know communications was not cut in the Cradle. They were able to communicate with the outside. Further, Nanoha was obviously able to communicate with her little scout round.

As an aside, that the little scout round wasn't dissolved is a strong sign that the AMF-interference strength had been sharply cut sometime. Of course, it is hard to think of a logical reason why they would do that, but it is equally hard to imagine that little scout round surviving otherwise. Maybe it is some kind of system malfunction that occurred as the two of them blasted around...
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Old 2009-04-15, 11:22   Link #1987
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No, but it does have "wires" (nerves) running through it.
Magic rounds have wires/nerves now? Source please.
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Old 2009-04-15, 11:52   Link #1988
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Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
As an aside, that the little scout round wasn't dissolved is a strong sign that the AMF-interference strength had been sharply cut sometime. Of course, it is hard to think of a logical reason why they would do that, but it is equally hard to imagine that little scout round surviving otherwise.
Couldn't it be that Nanoha simply kept supplying them with enough energy to keep going despite the AMF? That's the whole point of training to fight under AMF conditions anyway. And yes, with her limiters unloacked at that stage, I'm sure she has enough power for that.
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Old 2009-04-15, 12:17   Link #1989
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Yeah, you can't really conclude anything based on one of the Aces operating in an AMF field - they're all strong enough that it doesn't affect them so much. (For that matter, Vita didn't lose a lot in the Cradle...)
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Old 2009-04-15, 15:40   Link #1990
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alternatively, we know from Teana's Coated Bullets that a spell bullet 'coated' in a barrier is not subject to AMF disruption.

Therefore, there's the additional possibility that Nanoha, knowing that she was in an AMF environment, used said coating technique to protect her searchers.
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Old 2009-04-15, 23:30   Link #1991
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It's more resistant, not totally immune. Also, that's an over-A skill. At S+, Nanoha might be able to use even more effective techniques.
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Old 2009-04-16, 00:21   Link #1992
arkhangelsk
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Magic rounds have wires/nerves now? Source please.
We were talking about the human arm there, but back to Stinger Snipe. This is a conclusion based on the visual clearly showing a linkage back to Chrono. Besides, the only alternative is wireless (read: broadcast) command systems. Your choice, Keroko.

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Originally Posted by Jimmy C View Post
Couldn't it be that Nanoha simply kept supplying them with enough energy to keep going despite the AMF? That's the whole point of training to fight under AMF conditions anyway. And yes, with her limiters unloacked at that stage, I'm sure she has enough power for that.
While she was fighting Vivio and going on successively more damaging Blaster modes? Besides, the main part about AMF is that it supposedly breaks up the links between magic so it decays faster.

So, if Nanoha sends linked magic, it'll be bombarded every inch of its way towards the round and it is hard to believe much would be left by the end of it.

If Nanoha sends unlinked magic (if that is possible), then it has to be linked on site. Do you really want to credit that little scout round with self-linking capability.

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Originally Posted by stormturmoil View Post
alternatively, we know from Teana's Coated Bullets that a spell bullet 'coated' in a barrier is not subject to AMF disruption.

Therefore, there's the additional possibility that Nanoha, knowing that she was in an AMF environment, used said coating technique to protect her searchers.
Teana's was meant to withstand the damaging bombardment for a few seconds until it breaks through.

Nanoha COULD have used that to delay things somewhat. But come on, that was a tiny weeny scout round and it has been floating around for many minutes. It is hard to imagine that any barrier coated around it hasn't been completely eaten away.

If coatings are that good, AMF would be nearly ineffective, yet we can see it is not the case. Nanoha and Vita were having difficulty flying themselves, yet this silly little scout round acts as if the AMF wasn't there.

(Obviously, the author simply didn't think about all this, but that still leaves us having to come up with something...)
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Old 2009-04-16, 01:49   Link #1993
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So say it's not a silly little scout round. Or it is, but it's coated in a barrier that's sucking mana like a Photon Lancer Genocide Mode. Nanoha has it to burn, after all. It's also, if you don't mind me saying so, a very Nanoha-like way of dealing with the problem... apply additional firepower. ;p
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Old 2009-04-16, 02:00   Link #1994
Keroko
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Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
We were talking about the human arm there, but back to Stinger Snipe. This is a conclusion based on the visual clearly showing a linkage back to Chrono. Besides, the only alternative is wireless (read: broadcast) command systems. Your choice, Keroko.
I say wireless. Then the problem becomes what sort of wireless? Frankly, any answer we might speculate on this is just that: Speculation. Therefore, any conclusion on how it might get disrupted or hacked is also that: Speculation.

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While she was fighting Vivio and going on successively more damaging Blaster modes? Besides, the main part about AMF is that it supposedly breaks up the links between magic so it decays faster.

So, if Nanoha sends linked magic, it'll be bombarded every inch of its way towards the round and it is hard to believe much would be left by the end of it.

If Nanoha sends unlinked magic (if that is possible), then it has to be linked on site. Do you really want to credit that little scout round with self-linking capability.
Nanoha was in constant contact with the rounds (plural, she send out a whole bunch). She just kept refreshing the links until the little scouts had done their work.

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If coatings are that good, AMF would be nearly ineffective, yet we can see it is not the case. Nanoha and Vita were having difficulty flying themselves, yet this silly little scout round acts as if the AMF wasn't there.
The only time we saw coating being only relatively effective was when a B-rank mage decided to try and use a AA-rank skill. After that single occasion, coating became clear to be a very effective way of countering AMF. Even Nanoha and Vita were ony having 'trouble' until they coated themselves. After that they had no problems fighting as usual, bar that it took them a lot more energy to do so.
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Old 2009-04-16, 06:15   Link #1995
Jimmy C
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Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
While she was fighting Vivio and going on successively more damaging Blaster modes?
In a word, yes. Remember, after all that fighting, then she threw out a Divine Buster and a Starlight Breaker X5. And she still wasn't spent after those attacks! So she definitely had the energy to spare to power the scouts through the AMF.

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So, if Nanoha sends linked magic, it'll be bombarded every inch of its way towards the round and it is hard to believe much would be left by the end of it.
Which is why she would keep sending more energy to them down the link she maintains with the scout rounds. Like Avatar stated, apply more firepower!
Really, ark, is it that hard to believe that Nanoha has that much power to burn when she goes all out?
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Old 2009-04-16, 08:47   Link #1996
arkhangelsk
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DB and SB have the advantage of being relatively close.

The biggest problem with the idea that she's that powerful is that they are umm ... pretty much shown to be not. They were clearly struggling against the AMF (even when all they had to do was fight drones rtaher than Vivio) like they should have if they had that much reserve.

SoD aside, there is a literary component to all this - what's the plot point of an AMF on Cradle if the heroine breezes past it, and breeze past it she is if she's as relatively powerful as you suggest.

But at least after some thought, I think I may have an explanation. Maybe those AMFs are enemy activated rather than just globally turned on. That would explain why it took several seconds while Nanoha and Vita ingressed before the AMF came on. Perhaps those dinky little rounds were just too small to set off the defense system...
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Old 2009-04-16, 09:01   Link #1997
Keroko
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Actually, the reason why it took several seconds before they were affected was because it took several seconds for them to enter the AMF's radius.

I also didn't see them 'clearly struggling against the AMF' as you claim them to be. Sure, I saw them getting tired faster, which is no surprise as they're having to pump who knows how much more magic to get their spells going, but struggling? No. And energy is hardly a concern for heroines, just look at A's and Nanoha holding her own against a Lost Logia.

As for a plot point... Rule of Cool. It makes the heroines seem that much cooler when they are debilitated by an AMF but still kick much ass.
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Old 2009-04-16, 09:19   Link #1998
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Well, if there is anything to be learned from this bull-headed discussion, Nano-verse canon is pretty much a Super Robot show. The laws of common sense and "realistic" cynicism don't apply to the Aces and co., whereas faceless grunts fall like flies.

Then again, the point of faceless grunts is to get their asses kicked, though some do manage to redeem themselves while maintaining anonymity, case in point Armored Trooper Votoms Pailsen Files episode 4. Hey, that Balarant AT pilot had the devil's own luck to survive the absolute massacre by the Barkov squad and limp his sorry self all the way to the base's cannon controls and activate that big bad boy, before Chirico and company wised up to his presence.
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Old 2009-04-16, 09:37   Link #1999
arkhangelsk
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Actually, the reason why it took several seconds before they were affected was because it took several seconds for them to enter the AMF's radius.
That interpretation is canonically locked? Or is it just your read of the situation.

Quote:
I also didn't see them 'clearly struggling against the AMF' as you claim them to be. Sure, I saw them getting tired faster, which is no surprise as they're having to pump who knows how much more magic to get their spells going, but struggling? No.
Obviously, you actually agree, but just want to nitpick on exactly how hard they are working. It is definitely clear that they are breezing through the thing, which is what the Brute Force solution would have implied.

Quote:
And energy is hardly a concern for heroines, just look at A's and Nanoha holding her own against a Lost Logia.

As for a plot point... Rule of Cool. It makes the heroines seem that much cooler when they are debilitated by an AMF but still kick much ass.
In short, I propose a scenario that might realistically solve the problem, but you insist on an unrealistic solution?
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Old 2009-04-16, 10:35   Link #2000
Nagumo
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In short, I propose a scenario that might realistically solve the problem, but you insist on an unrealistic solution?
My impression is quite a bit different.

You are proposing a scenario that might realistically solve the problem... for an anime/magical girl show which is inherently unrealistic.
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