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Old 2009-04-08, 15:07   Link #2261
Circular Logic
土は幻に
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Yep, the logic is that google translate is a terrible, terrible translator.

Especially with a language like Japanese.
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Old 2009-04-08, 16:55   Link #2262
Raiga
tl;dr
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Age: 23
Always trust human translations over computer translations! Unless the human sucks too, but... the computer usually sucks more.

Especially since Japanese is a language with so much freedom to just omit stuff when people know what you're talking about. Which is both convenient and confusing. XD

And how it's not at all closely related on the language tree to English... I haven't tried but I'd imagine a Japanese-Chinese computerized translator might be passable.
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Old 2009-04-09, 10:43   Link #2263
iLney
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Thank both Yay for humans!

Next:

毎晩寝る前にはいる.

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Old 2009-04-09, 11:43   Link #2264
Butternuts
お金があればそれだけて生きることができ る
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: 西宮北口!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLney View Post
Thank both Yay for humans!

Next:

毎晩寝る前にはいる.

Every night before sleep there is (someone/something alive)
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Old 2009-04-09, 11:50   Link #2265
bungmonkey
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Florida
Age: 26
Or it could be "Every night before going to sleep (someone) enters (something)." Lack of context makes it ambiguous. It could be 前には いる, or 前に はいる.
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Old 2009-04-09, 12:32   Link #2266
Nagato
幻想郷
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: 幻想郷
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLney View Post
Thank both Yay for humans!

Next:

毎晩寝る前にはいる.

Like bungmonkey said there's some possible case here

#1 (highly possibly this is the case)
毎晩寝る前に(お風呂に)入る
(I) take a bath every night before going to sleep

#2
毎晩寝る前には要る
I need it every night before going to sleep

#3
毎晩寝る前には居る
It's here every night before (I) go to bed
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Old 2009-04-09, 14:24   Link #2267
Ryuou
進む道は武士道のみ
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Dying to get back to Japan (but currently near Chicago)
Age: 26
Quote:
#1 (highly possibly this is the case)
毎晩寝る前に(お風呂に)入る
(I) take a bath every night before going to sleep
It's probably 99% this one here.
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Old 2009-04-10, 20:48   Link #2268
iLney
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Aye, thank you very much.

BTW, how can you figure that out? ("taking a bath", "it's here" etc...

Next:
田中さんは元気だとうるさいです。
=> when Mr. Tanaka is healthy, he's a real brother?

I don't see where the second phrase comes from...
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Old 2009-04-10, 21:52   Link #2269
Doughnuts
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Location: England
Age: 28
Bother, not brother.
See it now?

田中さんは元気だと、うるさいです。
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Old 2009-04-10, 23:50   Link #2270
iLney
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............................

Ty ty
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Old 2009-04-12, 04:45   Link #2271
christine_cute
A total anime freak^^
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: New York, USA
I recently read a manga and got a bit confused....
Can anyone tell me the difference between:

-Onii-sama, Onii-chan, nii-chan

-senpai and sempai??
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Old 2009-04-12, 05:38   Link #2272
ganbaru
books-eater youkai
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
Quote:
Originally Posted by christine_cute View Post
I recently read a manga and got a bit confused....
Can anyone tell me the difference between:

-Onii-sama, Onii-chan, nii-chan

-senpai and sempai??
1, It's about politeness/proximiteness, Onii-sama is the most polite way of the 3 nii-chan is the less polite .
2 The ''senpai'' should be read as ''sempai'' because the ''n'' alone before the ''p'' is pronounced ''m'' even in japanese.
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Old 2009-04-12, 05:55   Link #2273
Mystique
Honyaku no Hime
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: In the eastern capital of the islands of the rising suns...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
1, It's about politeness/proximiteness, Onii-sama is the most polite way of the 3 nii-chan is the less polite.
Yep.
From Bleach: Rukia to her 'legal' brother Byakuya = Onii-sama
From FMA: Alphonse to Edward = Nii-san
Can't think of a 'chan' example off the top of my head though.
There is no set rule or time of when to use these suffixes btw and they can be interchangable.
It's just one of those "Japanese things" that you have to "sense" given the state of the relationship between two people and then the usual age, status, social position, yada yada...
I'm just wondering if Kon from bleach calls Rukia 'nee-san' or 'nee-chan', but typically it's 'san' before they're older than you.
Quote:
2 The ''senpai'' should be read as ''sempai'' because the ''n'' alone before the ''p'' is pronounced ''m'' even in japanese.
That would only be a romaji issue though, as it's still written as
先輩 【せぱい】 (n) senior (at work or school), superior, elder, older graduate, progenitor, old-timer, (P)
And even then, i wonder if that's down to local dialect, cause sometimes i catch the 'n' even though it naturally flows as 'm'.
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Old 2009-04-12, 11:53   Link #2274
Doughnuts
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Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystique View Post
That would only be a romaji issue though, as it's still written as
先輩 【せぱい】 (n) senior (at work or school), superior, elder, older graduate, progenitor, old-timer, (P)
And even then, i wonder if that's down to local dialect, cause sometimes i catch the 'n' even though it naturally flows as 'm'.
The apparent m sound isn't forced, it's just a result of the phonetics. An m sound is categorised as a bilabial nasal sound (meaning it uses the lips pressed together, and air coming through the nose). An n is a nasal sound, and a p (or b) is a labial sound (this time, the lips are seperated). When you combine them normally, there's little room to prounounce the n before pressing your lips together ready for the p, so a bilabial nasal-like sound is produced. You'll probably notice it more apparent the quicker the word is spoken.

I think there's only traditional hepburn that encourages the use of m in romanisations, but most other romaji systems use n always. It's more true to the original sound.
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Old 2009-04-12, 21:27   Link #2275
Raiga
tl;dr
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Age: 23
Sort of a formatting question... with Japanese, it is okay to word wrap wherever, right? As in, it doesn't matter if you go to the next line in the middle of a kanji compound or coherent hiragana string or katakana word? I'm fairly certain I've seen that done...
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Old 2009-04-13, 17:29   Link #2276
Mystique
Honyaku no Hime
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: In the eastern capital of the islands of the rising suns...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiga View Post
Sort of a formatting question... with Japanese, it is okay to word wrap wherever, right? As in, it doesn't matter if you go to the next line in the middle of a kanji compound or coherent hiragana string or katakana word? I'm fairly certain I've seen that done...
I'm sure the Japanese have their own posters and ads with that technique, the trick would be knowing where to wrap, since you're juggling 3 alphabets, which also serve to be indications of where one word ends and one begins.
Don't think there's any set rules, the only advice I could give if i were to go about with it would be to break between kanji of one word.
Don't break before a particle and don't break just before the hiragana of a word.

今日はハートの色が面白いと思います。
cab become
今日はハートの色が面
白いと思います。
or

日はハートの
色が面白い
と思います。
(Hmm, breaking between kanji even is tricky as it could be mistakenly read into two, lol)
Native's eyes would be able to tell better methinks...
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Old 2009-04-13, 17:59   Link #2277
Doughnuts
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: England
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiga View Post
Sort of a formatting question... with Japanese, it is okay to word wrap wherever, right? As in, it doesn't matter if you go to the next line in the middle of a kanji compound or coherent hiragana string or katakana word? I'm fairly certain I've seen that done...
If you mean like that in your avatar, it's perfectly acceptable.

Well, it pretty much needs to be acceptable due to the difficulty in making software automatically wrap at the correct point. In English, we either need to look for a space and soft return, or insert a hyphen where a word carries onto the next line, either is fairly simple to program. Telling a piece of software where a word starts or ends to wrap for Japanese text is completely unfeasible though. You'd be basically required to write something that can parse natural language.

That being said, if you're wrapping text manually, I would advise trying to keep words on the same lines where you can, and not just force soft returns anywhere for the sake of it. Basically, a bit of common sense, only break where you would normally insert a space in the romanisation of whatever you're writing, and as Mystique suggested.
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Old 2009-04-16, 11:41   Link #2278
iLney
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
How do I read two particles sitting next to each other?

Like "hazu" or "wazu," "niha" or "niwa," "deha" or "hewa"

Sorry I can't type Japanese here.
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Old 2009-04-16, 14:11   Link #2279
Nerroth
Alea iacta est.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Age: 34
If one had a question or comment regarding any of the other languages found in Japan - such as Ainu or Ryukyuan - could they go here, or should a separate topic be used instead?
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Old 2009-04-16, 14:19   Link #2280
BOFH_of_OZ
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: OZ
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLney View Post
How do I read two particles sitting next to each other?

Like "hazu" or "wazu," "niha" or "niwa," "deha" or "hewa"

Sorry I can't type Japanese here.
In all three cases, you are talking about the "wa" particle. Just remember that when used as a particle, it's "wa".
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