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View Poll Results: -Your- picks for the best songs in Macross Frontier [Multiple-pick Option Enabled]
Welcome To My FanClub's Night! 67 21.47%
Shinkuu no Diamond Crevasse 108 34.62%
Aimo ~Tori no Hito 83 26.60%
Infinity 84 26.92%
Diamond Crevasse ~Sheryl Only♥ 183 58.65%
Northern Cross 150 48.08%
Anata no Oto 55 17.63%
Seikan Hikōu 82 26.28%
Yousei 98 31.41%
Ai Oboete Imasu ka ~Ranka 76 24.36%
Watashi no Kare wa Pilot 30 9.62%
Lion 164 52.56%
Diamond Crevasse 50/50 36 11.54%
Aoi no Ether 49 15.71%
Neko Nikki 20 6.41%
Nyan Nyan Service Medley 101 32.37%
What 'bout my star?@Formo 109 34.94%
Triangler ~ Maaya Sakomoto 71 22.76%
Iteza☆Gogo Kuji Don't be late 88 28.21%
What 'bout my star? ~Sheryl 78 25.00%
Aimo OC 52 16.67%
Triangular - Duet - 93 29.81%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 312. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-04-16, 05:30   Link #1661
BanishingBook
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*Gets a headache. And then, left hand over forehead.*

Just to be clear, I'm not going to be participating if a bigger run-in ensues and with the trouble heading over unto reasons such as disliking Seikan Hikou, or disgruntling over any of Ranka's other music. I thought this thread may have posts with some open-mindedness but it is at all reeked with a biased attitude towards Macross music. I do not know the reasons why it has to drag the singer Megumi Nakajima or her character. No, I can't read everything! I get the vibes that it's all about this and what's not this is definitely out.

Look it's a happy melody, it sung in a way that gets my attention to make me happy.
I can also say that whatever music does not appeal to my sensibilities, I let it pass. As long as it doesn't go down into anything that berates the modesty of music, think suicide music . And if you think does, that is Seikan Hikou has some baaad taste, I hold that some music is capable of bringing inside a person some magic.

No lyrical content is of good value if it is so lobotimise by too many speculation and too many dreary hokums about it. Give it some slack.

(This message is bound to get argued against. But I won't quote whoever has any misgiving about my thoughts, this is a speak out.)

Last edited by BanishingBook; 2009-04-16 at 05:32. Reason: addendum
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Old 2009-04-16, 06:48   Link #1662
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Cop out.

So, you have no problem with someone telling you that you don't like something because you're too dumb to know better? Oh, wait... the biased Sheryl fans are not the ones doing that, are they?

Then your whole "defamation campaign" against Mamegu goes right out of the window. No one here's trashing her. I, for one, just don't like to be told what I can or can't like, based on my background or place of residence - because I just don't understand japanese music. If you can't see the difference, you're welcome to your own ignorance, then.

Edit ADD: Oh, and nice try, whomever tried to neg-rep me (I have some ideas). But you don't have any rep points, so... too bad for ya.
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Old 2009-04-16, 08:39   Link #1663
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Seikan Hikou is complete and utter fast food music, defending this would be like seeing someone on a hiphop forum defend Souja Boy's latest "amazing masterpiece" and saying it's good because it's in the charts You're acting like Seikan Hikou is a brilliant song that's overlooked because hardly anyone here likes Ranka, you're acting like it's Kaiba's Never.

And for the record my fav song in the series is Do You Remember Love: Bless the Little Queen so I guess your shipping theory goes flying out the window with me... that and Ranka's What About My Star are in my top 5. Aimo Birdman (waaaaay better than the original, o.c and sheryls) is another massive favorite of mine. Oh wait I forgot I'm biased
Well, there's undoubtedly biasness involved. You may not see it in one person, but when the poll results show a divide between the two characters, one claiming the top half, the other in the bottom half, its hard to argue that there's no biasness involved.
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Originally Posted by BetoJR View Post
Then your whole "defamation campaign" against Mamegu goes right out of the window. No one here's trashing her. I, for one, just don't like to be told what I can or can't like, based on my background or place of residence - because I just don't understand japanese music. If you can't see the difference, you're welcome to your own ignorance, then.
And that's where you're overreacting.

I never said foreigners should like or dislike which. I only stated that foreigners will never fully grasp the meaning of Japanese music if they do not know the language.

I'm not tell you that you cannot like or dislike anything you don't understand. I'm only telling you that you disliked something you didn't understand, at the same time, you yourself are liking other things you don't fully understand as well.

You see, I'm only agreeing to what the Japanese pointed out:

Biasness involved - Yes I think there's biasness involved seeing the results of the poll.
Not understanding Japanese music - Yes I believe foreigners don't really understand what they hearing from Japanese music.

Its not like I'm arguing that everyone hates and is bashing one character, I'm only saying there's a certain degree of biasness. I didn't say that people cannot like or dislike something, more or less than another, even if you don't understand it.
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Old 2009-04-16, 09:28   Link #1664
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wow, everyone is in music forum XD

To start it off, Seikan Hikōu, Aoi no Ether, Anata no Oto, Diamond Crevasse, Infinity, Ai Oboete (ep 1 deculture version) are my top six

I guess some biases against certain anime character do involve when ppl choose their favourite song, but I hope there is no bias against the singer tho.

The answer is that those songs from macross are designed to fit certain characters...like Seikan Hikōu is for Ranka and Northern Cross is for Sheryl...

So if you like Ranka and you don't absolutely hate the style of Seikan Hikōu (typical pop song), chances are you will like the Seikan Hikōu more

And if you don't like Ranka and you don't absolutely love the style of Seikan Hikōu, chances are you may not like that song so much...

It's natural really, but I really hope there is nothing against the singer just because they voice some certain characters XD

About the lyrics, I am so proud to say that the only lyrics I can understand from the Japanese song is the phrase "Sorry" from Sailormoon's OP..and instantly I like that song much more when I realize I "understand" that music ..so understand some lyrics help a bit I guess
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Last edited by justavisitor; 2009-04-16 at 09:51.
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Old 2009-04-16, 09:34   Link #1665
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Oh, I'm done with this. Seems we of non-japanese heritage shouldn't be allowed to express our opinions about songs in polls because we can't understand the words. Truly, that's just note perfect analytical explanation - and don't dare say I'm overreacting over such arbitrary positions. It just makes you look like an entirely condescending... person.

See y'all in the funny pages.
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Old 2009-04-16, 09:47   Link #1666
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@BetoJR

I just hope you are not responding from my post lol because I never say non-japanese heritage shouldn't be allowed to express their opinions about songs in polls just because they don't understand it

I don't understand a single Japanese word..I just say understanding lyrics help a person like a song more...I like the sailormoon op much more once I understand the word "sorry" in Japanese and I can't describe my joy when I can actually listen to the singer say "sorry" in the first sentence

I really hope your anger does not come from my post
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Old 2009-04-16, 12:01   Link #1667
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I dunno when I look at the choices I don't think "this is a Ranka's song". I dunno know who was voting like this is a competition but I know that the people complaining that one girl "got more votes" than another gotta be part of that group. So let em stew.

I totally agree with CA that language makes it tough for people to know lyrics. The hard part with songs like @Formo and Don't be late is that they have English lyrics in them, so it's hard for non-native English speakers to really get the poetry. Otherwise @Formo would even be more popular than DC in Japan.

SH is underrated but Anata no Oto even more. I mean it was so important that it titled the final episode. But here too it needs advanced understanding of Japanese onomatopoeia to get the symbolism.
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Old 2009-04-16, 12:46   Link #1668
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Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
I just hope you are not responding from my post lol because I never say non-japanese heritage shouldn't be allowed to express their opinions about songs in polls just because they don't understand it
If you'd read my previous posts, you'd know I was constantly responding to some slightly unsavory comments made by some other (I assume Ranka's) fans who think one needs to be a full-on japanese speaker, to be able to enjoy their favorite songs - and, since we're ill-bred westerners, we're just not equipped to do so, and that's why we prefer some other kinds of songs (which aren't so sublime as the ones they deem so). Pure bull, in my opinion, as I think music is music no matter where you are from or what languages you're fluent in - and even if you don't understand any of the words that are being sung.

Nothing to do with you, personally, so not to worry.

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Originally Posted by erfine View Post
SH is underrated but Anata no Oto even more. I mean it was so important that it titled the final episode. But here too it needs advanced understanding of Japanese onomatopoeia to get the symbolism.
What kind of advanced knowledge of onomatopoeias do we need to understand "Dokun, dokun, dokun"?

Sorry, couldn't resist it. Please don't shoot me...

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Old 2009-04-16, 12:54   Link #1669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
@BetoJR

I just hope you are not responding from my post lol because I never say non-japanese heritage shouldn't be allowed to express their opinions about songs in polls just because they don't understand it

I don't understand a single Japanese word..I just say understanding lyrics help a person like a song more...I like the sailormoon op much more once I understand the word "sorry" in Japanese and I can't describe my joy when I can actually listen to the singer say "sorry" in the first sentence

I really hope your anger does not come from my post
I'll just jump in and point out that Beta's "anger," if there is anger, is aimed at C.A. and Banishing for the suggestion that non-Japanese speakers can't understand Japanese music. Or more specifically that non-Japanese can't understand Japanese music. It's like saying that we non-Japanese can't possibly understand what Diamond Crevasse is about because we don't speak Japanese. I mean, I figured it was about love and loss and all that, but I guess I'm wrong.

Now, I can understand the point that without understanding Japanese one would miss any Japanese linguistic tricks in the songs. That does not, however, mean that the meaning of the song is lost in translation, as a good translation would also include notes on anything missed. To be honest though, I doubt any piece of Macross music would be written in such a way that it's meaning could be lost on anyone not Japanese, because that's just not how Kawamori or Yoko Kanno roll.

Now, defending Seikan Hikou as some kind of brilliant piece of music that we non-Japanese just don't understand is silly. It's a pop idol song, the song writer says it's a pop idol song, so therefore it follows that it's not going to be so terribly deep, meaningful, and culturally Japanese that no one else can properly understand it.

For an amusing non-anime reference, this is a bit like claiming that non-Elves can't understand the real meaning of the parts of Tolkien's works that involve Elvish.
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Old 2009-04-16, 12:56   Link #1670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erfine View Post
I dunno when I look at the choices I don't think "this is a Ranka's song". I dunno know who was voting like this is a competition but I know that the people complaining that one girl "got more votes" than another gotta be part of that group. So let em stew.

I totally agree with CA that language makes it tough for people to know lyrics. The hard part with songs like @Formo and Don't be late is that they have English lyrics in them, so it's hard for non-native English speakers to really get the poetry. Otherwise @Formo would even be more popular than DC in Japan.

SH is underrated but Anata no Oto even more. I mean it was so important that it titled the final episode. But here too it needs advanced understanding of Japanese onomatopoeia to get the symbolism.
I have to agree with you here as well, what's more is that you can't literally translate Japanese into English. I imagine there are words in Japanese that have more of a profound meaning than what it does in English. Music in general is universal but being able to understand the artistic side of it in the poetry of words is where it comes down to being more difficult. Most of us will understand the general beauty of the lyrics and song but if you go into more detail, I figure that's where I would at least fall short.

Still this shouldn't effect how much you enjoy the song but I agree to an extent that as a person that lives outside of Japan, I might not fully understand the poetic side to a song.
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Old 2009-04-16, 12:57   Link #1671
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Originally Posted by SethEng View Post
For an amusing non-anime reference, this is a bit like claiming that non-Elves can't understand the real meaning of the parts of Tolkien's works that involve Elvish.
Oh, God, that was priceless. Thank you.
But it's Beto, not Beta. Please, I'm a boy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
Still this shouldn't effect how much you enjoy the song but I agree to an extent that as a person that lives outside of Japan, I might not fully understand the poetic side to a song.
So, you agree, to an extent, that the people who do not understand japanese shouldn't have an opinion over what's the better song, just because they can't understand the innate poetic workings of something? I don't get to say I like Diamond Crevasse better than Seikan Hikou because of that? It's just a bit much, for me, really...
I mean, really... c'mon, Seikan Hikou is a poppy song. Yoko Kano herself called it a poppy-idol song. What could be so transcendentally hidden in the context of the poetry rhythmic that it would drastically change some of our plain westerners understanding and appreciation of it? I just don't get this kinda reasoning...
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Old 2009-04-16, 13:26   Link #1672
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Sorry about that Beto. It's still early in the day for me and I blame a lack of proper caffination.

Last edited by SethEng; 2009-04-16 at 13:28. Reason: Double Post! Yay!
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Old 2009-04-16, 13:38   Link #1673
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Originally Posted by BetoJR View Post
So, you agree, to an extent, that the people who do not understand japanese shouldn't have an opinion over what's the better song, just because they can't understand the innate poetic workings of something? I don't get to say I like Diamond Crevasse better than Seikan Hikou because of that? It's just a bit much, for me, really...
I mean, really... c'mon, Seikan Hikou is a poppy song. Yoko Kano herself called it a poppy-idol song. What could be so transcendentally hidden in the context of the poetry rhythmic that it would drastically change some of our plain westerners understanding and appreciation of it? I just don't get this kinda reasoning...
My friend I never singled out Seikan Hikou and I also never said that you weren't allowed to express your own opinions about any song. I merely expressed that although most people can get the gist of a Japanese song, be it what ever genre, it's difficult to really understand it completely considering you can't do a literal translation of certain Japanese words. We can find the closest word in English but sometimes it's not exactly what it means, that's all I was trying to say
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Old 2009-04-16, 13:41   Link #1674
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Okay, at least you're not so far gone as to try to justify your choices by disqualifying others. Good for you - and for the level of the argument, as well.
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Old 2009-04-16, 13:43   Link #1675
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I... Have to say that Seikan Hikou is a real poppish song. I mean, you know... I... Have no fondness to the lyrics. At all. And really, Seikan Hikou's lyric is uhhh... IMHO, IMVHO, not really having any deep meaning at all D:

I mean, isn't the "KIRA~!" is obvious enough...?
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Old 2009-04-16, 13:45   Link #1676
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Originally Posted by BetoJR View Post
Okay, at least you're not so far gone as to try to justify your choices by disqualifying others. Good for you - and for the level of the argument, as well.
I'm disappointed, after all of our history I thought you would know me by now You know I've always tried to take others opinions into consideration unless their opinion sounds too unreasonable. I'm also very careful with the words I choose here especially because we're arguing something so subjective as music
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Old 2009-04-16, 13:45   Link #1677
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Originally Posted by Natsuki Hyuga View Post
I... Have to say that Seikan Hikou is a real poppish song. I mean, you know... I... Have no fondness to the lyrics. At all. And really, Seikan Hikou's lyric is uhhh... IMHO, IMVHO, not really having any deep meaning at all D:

I mean, isn't the "KIRA~!" is obvious enough...?
This coming from someone who DOES understand the words should be clue enough, huh? But, no, she's probably biased, since she's a Sheryl fan, eh?

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Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
I'm disappointed, after all of our history I thought you would know me by now You know I've always tried to take others opinions into consideration unless their opinion sounds too unreasonable. I'm also very careful with the words I choose here especially because we're arguing something so subjective as music
Hey, no harm no foul, right? Also, yes, this is all very subjective. That's why I can't stomach the notion being advocated by some that we cannot truly appreciate something because we can't understand the words. It doesn't go well with me, for some reason.
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Old 2009-04-16, 16:05   Link #1678
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This coming from someone who DOES understand the words should be clue enough, huh? But, no, she's probably biased, since she's a Sheryl fan, eh?
I understand the lyrics, the Japanese in the nico video understand the lyrics, we like it. Does being poppy music mean that the music is bad? Different genres can be more or less sophisticated but people can like them all equally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BetoJR
Hey, no harm no foul, right? Also, yes, this is all very subjective. That's why I can't stomach the notion being advocated by some that we cannot truly appreciate something because we can't understand the words. It doesn't go well with me, for some reason.
I'm serious when I said you're overreacting, yes because it doesn't go well with you and you seem to have a very big reaction to me. I don't see other people as affected as you do.

You clearly misunderstood stuff as I mentioned earlier. I've mentioned and rementioned several times that I only stated that foreigners do not fully understand Japanese music. And the only thing I expanded from that was because of that Japanese have a fairer viewpoint to judge.

You put words into my mouth with:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BetoJR
Seems we of non-japanese heritage shouldn't be allowed to express our opinions about songs in polls because we can't understand the words.[/B]
Quote:
Originally Posted by BetoJR
I, for one, just don't like to be told what I can or can't like, based on my background or place of residence - because I just don't understand japanese music.
I'm very sure I didn't say that people shouldn't be allowed to express opinions or they cannot like or dislike something they don't understand. The only thing I said about not understanding the language is that you won't understand as well as Japanese do and thus Japanese have a fairer view. The Japanese may have a fairer view in my opinion, but I'm nowhere stopping anyone from their opinions or liking and disliking.

You know, I didn't come here for an argument at all, I saw a funny video, I translated and you were somehow more offended than others. I don't see others being offended or anything. Not just me, but others too, think you are definitely angry at something.

I'll apologize for what ticked you off.
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Old 2009-04-16, 16:16   Link #1679
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Oh, no sir. You said, and I quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
For No. 14 Seikan Hikou, there's an uproar, not loli hate and shipping, but they totally disagree that Seikan Hikou ranks this low. It got on the Oricon charts, its really a great song, foreigners don't know how to appreciate Japanese music and this song is especially meaningful for Japanese.

(...)


Then it carries on 13 Triangular, who they also think its a good song and foreigners obviously don't know how to appreciate Japanese music or they're really just all about Sheryl.

(...)


Mainly I agree with them, especially on foreigners not knowing how to appreciate Japanese music.
That's my problem, right there. You may try to retract your statement now - and please note, this is not me being angry at anything (I find the very notion of being aggravated by remarks made over the internet ludicrous), and only one person assumed I was angry, not persons - but you did imply that non-japanese do not know how to appreciate japanese music. And that's a load of bull, if you pardon my french.
And I still don't know why Seikan Hikou would be specially meaningful to the japanese. I mean... would you care to enlighten me? Is it the "Kira!" pose?

But, you know what, I don't even care. So, it's not like the opinions of a few japanese people would matter all that much, anyway. By the way, are you japanese, C.A.?
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Last edited by BetoJR; 2009-04-16 at 16:26.
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Old 2009-04-16, 17:08   Link #1680
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You don't see the other persons because they happen to be in my pm and roller coaster cookies.

Everything in my original post is straight from the video itself, including everything in the part where I said I agree with the Japanese. The Nico posters were saying 'foreigners not knowing how to appreciate Japanese music' and 'Seikan Hikou is special to the Japanese'.

I'm just a foreigner who learnt Japanese and found it the greatest investment ever.
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