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Old 2004-03-28, 19:09   Link #81
nubby
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Join Date: Apr 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lina Inverse
You should not imply your own intolerance for such a child
Just because you think that such a child would something very bad (because you were brought up to think it), the child itself surely wouldn't think such a thing, since its parents wouldn't tell him that.
Concerning the latter, moving into an area with less intolerant, tight-assed people would surely help.
Yeah the parents would probably try to teach the kids to accept it and maybe even as a norm. But with today's society having so much influence on children, it would be hard for the kids, when they grow up, to accept and deal with such a thing. Of course I'm speaking from an American's point of view so it's probably different elsewhere in the world.
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Old 2004-03-28, 19:18   Link #82
kj1980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nubby
Yeah the parents would probably try to teach the kids to accept it and maybe even as a norm. But with today's society having so much influence on children, it would be hard for the kids, when they grow up, to accept and deal with such a thing. Of course I'm speaking from an American's point of view so it's probably different elsewhere in the world.
Since Japan allows first cousin relationships, this isn't considered "incest" over here. But for the sake of differences in many different countries:

One of my former girlfriend that I dated back in university - her father and mother were cousins. She was a very attractive person who had no problems whatsoever. Nor did she have any tormenting experiences in the past as well.

Several of my friends throughout my years have some sort of first cousin relationships in their ancestry. They all turned out fine.

I guess its all part of living in a society where they are more openly acceptable or not. Like I said several posts back, here in Japan, first cousin relationships are more acceptable than other cultures.
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Old 2004-03-28, 19:41   Link #83
Mcdonalds
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wow this thread has sure been developed. After reading this, i thought about what i found acceptable/unacceptable and believe that i would be very uncomfortable under any circumstances involving first blood relations. I too would find it weird too see people having a relationship with first blooded cousins, except under the circumstance that they have never known each other when they were little, explained by "say you never met someone before, and when you get to know him/her, and gradually, you fall in love with each other". Having said that, i would probably be tolerable to this.

on a side note, does 2 brothers and or 2 sisters with a random stranger account to incest? You often here people (mainly the tv/films) state how they have/would enjoy to have a threesome with sisters e.g. austin powers - goldmember with the 2 korean sisters.
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Old 2004-06-09, 17:57   Link #84
Guido
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Well, well. Each one of you have discussed their attitude toward first-cousin relationships.

Let me discuss mine.

I'm from México and as just the rest of the LatinAmerican countries, it is not quite acceptable to some extent marriages among blood-related family members.

LatinAmerica has been educated according to a Catholic tradition that incest is considered a sin.

However, it all depends on two things: education and way people tend to look at things, whether it is natural or a perversion.

This is only the surface, as I don't doubt that there are places whether in México or the rest of LatinAmerica where people, who have not being educated whether by the dominant society's morale or the Christian morale, naturally consent cousin marriage.

I indeed view cousin marriage bizarre but in the real life, not in anime.

In anime, cousin-relationship/marriage opens the door to a whole new dimension into the whole shoujo-romance subgenre. That's why I'm not upset about public displays of cousin-love relationships showing up in anime.

However, it will give me the goosebumps if I ever see in an anime love relationships between mom-son, father-daughter, auntie-nephew, & uncle-niece; now's that an aberration for me to watch.
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Old 2004-06-10, 00:00   Link #85
kujoe
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I can understand if people are bothered (or freaked out) by brother-sister, father-daughter or mother-son incest even by the mere suggestion of it. Heck, I have a couple of younger sisters myself--so that's where I'm coming from. But being bothered about first cousin relationships? I don't know about the rest, but such relationships are very normal.

With regard to the "oniichan syndrome" (or the other way around) of some anime, I'll simply take it for what it is. It's the affectionate nature of the relationship that's being fostered, and if the show has something significant to say about it, the better. The only thing I hope won't happen is when every anime in the romantic genre start using such a theme repeatedly.
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Old 2004-06-10, 10:04   Link #86
Sanjuronord
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From my experience in philosophy and ethics classes in college I've fallen into a libertarian stance on these kinds of issues. Basically, if I want the freedom to date/marry/relationships/whatever of my own choice that right has to be the same for others no matter how strange their beliefs may seem to me. In many of my class discussions on these kinds of issues the people that totally opposed anything they disagreed with tended to fall back to the "it's just wrong" statement after everything else fails them. Most try to argue using their religious beliefs(nothing more annoying than listening to someone repeat religion over and over in an ethics class without really knowing why they believe something except someone told them to believe it) and bs science. On the science issue like some others already pointed out the genetic problems are too small to even really consider, also if we start looking at people's genetic compatibilites before pregnancies we could be going down a very, very, very dark road.

From my little experience in life, it seems many people, especially americans (the few foreign exchange students I've met seemed alot more open), seem to never bother thinking for themselves.

As for the subject material in anime I don't think it's ever really bothered me. Many times, like in twins, it's cause I've never had any connection to the characters (err they never really felt real to me) and I took it more as a comedy and a nice light-hearted one at that. I think I had more of a personal investment in onegai teacher, just think that story seemed more real (okay despite the alien teacher and the stasis coma it still did for some reason) and even then the teacher/student relationship didn't seem a big deal. (though i think one episode mizuho was giving kei a hard time in class because of a marital dispute and that seemed unprofessional given the situation )
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Old 2004-06-10, 10:12   Link #87
Ending
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Sanjuronord got a point there. IMO, it's the same matter as with gays; like it or not, they are still there.
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Old 2004-06-10, 10:38   Link #88
musouka
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Well... i was just saying he would require amount of love to overcome the feelings that are usually in-between brother-sister. If they wanted to marry they could move to one of the countrys or states where it is allowed.
There are no states or countries--to my knowledge--where marriage between nuclear family members is legal. Yes, this includes Japan. (Why wouldn't it?)

As for my own stance, I find nothing wrong with cousins, but anything closer than that frankly disturbs me. Then again, I'm not the romantic type, so I'm less inclined to celebrate a union between brother and sister as "troo luv" and more inclined to think they should really get out of the house more.
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Old 2004-06-10, 11:10   Link #89
Bracken33
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I think cousin "incest" is ok for me.

I´m wavering about the rest....

Incest relationships between a father and a daughter or a mother and a son are very creepy imho.
There is a very high chance that in such a relationships one mate is abusing the weaker one.


Some random thoughts:

-I have read an article that siblings when raised together normaly do not have sex with eachother.
But if they were seperated when they were young and they meet after their puberty they will regard each other as viable mates.

-I think genetics is a dificult way to outlaw incest.
There are normal couples who have a higher risk to get deformed babies (hereditary deseases).
Will it be forbidden to have babies for them too?
Who will decide if the risk is to high?
Are people with an IQ below 70 allowed to breed?
This goes on and on...


Legalize it all? Still wavering...

Last edited by Bracken33; 2004-06-11 at 19:00.
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Old 2004-06-11, 17:02   Link #90
.Rurouni.
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hmm I think that incest between siblings are wrong but about cousin incest I don't really know what to say but I guess if you are in love so...
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Old 2004-06-11, 17:50   Link #91
hunterx
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I think any normally developed human should avoid blood relationships. I know there is always an urge and everyone thinks of it once or twice but you should be mature enough not to act on it. Same goes for pedos, they just can't control themselves or don't want to. This is probably why polygamy is frowned upon since the children tend to get incestous too
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Old 2004-06-12, 05:28   Link #92
Tommy
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Incest = yuckie.

Lets face it if you marry or have sexual relations with a cousin, family member, etc. you are a sick pathetic fucking loser. Theres millions of women out there find one your not related to.
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Old 2004-06-12, 07:59   Link #93
Ending
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Lets face it if you marry or have sexual relations with a cousin, family member, etc. you are a sick pathetic fucking loser. Theres millions of women out there find one your not related to.
There are millions of women/men that do not know a crap about you, and care even less. Having a similar background can matter a lot, you know. Better yet: knowing that background to detail.
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Old 2004-06-12, 08:23   Link #94
kujoe
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This is kinda off-topic. I just thought of something. Long, long ago prehistoric human population was still in its infancy, isolated by land and sea. What if, during such a time, the lives of the people revolved around their one small tribe?

Then that would mean...?

Society is strict regarding its moral codes on incest, but it makes me wonder if such a taboo lies at the very root of our civilization.
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Old 2004-06-12, 08:46   Link #95
TronDD
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Well if you believe what is writen in the Bible, incest was twice the major basis for human procreation. Adam and Eve and their offspring, then again with Noah and his family.

Also mentioned in the Bible, and something much more historically plausible, is incestuous conception in order to carry on the family name. I'm sure it happend all the time in more tribal times.
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Old 2004-06-12, 17:07   Link #96
donna8157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iridi
Why is it creepy? Because it's a cultural taboo here in the U.S.
If you'd been raised elsewhere, it wouldn't be creepy at all...

Barring education, why is it creepy? The chances of genetic deformities aren't nearly so high among first cousins, so it's not even as evolutionarily disadvantageous as immediate-family incest (though it doesn't mix the gene pool sufficiently, and more importantly the social pool...)

X is a man, Y is a woman, the two should get together, no?
[and no, I'm not going to hit on my first cousins either... it's too creepy...]

But even though they're first cousins, they're still related and there is still a higher chance of bad genes being passed down to the offspring. Even if it is not immediately passed down to the first progeny, it still remains in the gene pool.
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Old 2004-06-12, 18:52   Link #97
Rarity
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This is a fun discussion.

My next door neighbors as I was growing up were Amish. Because of too much interbreeding, 2 of 11 children are retarded and 1 is really slow. So even if 1st cousin relationships don't personally give me the heebie-jeebies, the negatives aren't merely theoretical, and that's why there are laws against 1st cousin marriage in many areas and religions.

As for portrayal of incest in anime... In the US, we manage to keep all that stuff in the daytime talkshow timeframe! We're talking biiiiggg ratings.
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Old 2004-06-12, 20:04   Link #98
CaLBeaR
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An anime which touches on this issue is "Koi Kaze" ... brother and sister ...
Try to watch it to see what you think of it ...
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Old 2004-06-13, 04:24   Link #99
Daemon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iridi
Why is it creepy? Because it's a cultural taboo here in the U.S.
If you'd been raised elsewhere, it wouldn't be creepy at all...

Barring education, why is it creepy? The chances of genetic deformities aren't nearly so high among first cousins, so it's not even as evolutionarily disadvantageous as immediate-family incest (though it doesn't mix the gene pool sufficiently, and more importantly the social pool...)

X is a man, Y is a woman, the two should get together, no?
[and no, I'm not going to hit on my first cousins either... it's too creepy...]
The taboo is a cultural factor in the US.

But there's also the biological factor, when the genes combine to have a child, it is always best to have the most diverse pool for each parents. Having similarities might have consequences where the bad traits of each gets enhanced in the child, thus a cummulative process.

The worst would be in the same family, first cousins are not too bad as long as it is not for too many generations.
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Old 2004-06-13, 14:12   Link #100
Angela Sanctisstessa
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i dunno...i dun c first cousin marriage as a big deal...it is just a person perception wherter to except or reject it..thats all...thou my country doesn't support first cousib marriage...have to flip my uncle's law book to check wheter it is legal or not...
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