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Old 2009-04-15, 23:33   Link #21
Vexx
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Some seem to be missing the point that a pre-emptive submarine launched nuke strike would slaughter possibly millions of people whose only "crime" is to be born in the wrong country. That's exactly the sort of talk that justifies NK paranoia and makes one wonder who the "good guys" were supposed to be...
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Old 2009-04-16, 00:38   Link #22
vedicardi
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There is no point to discussing this. No matter what you think about the issue, nothing will change. This isn't something you can simply vote on and get your way, you can only sit back and watch.

Worrying is pointless. If you say "We will get nuked (if X happens)" and we do get nuked, what will it matter if you were right if you're dead? I'm not going to waste my time worrying about something that I can't do anything about or to prepare for.

That's what I think

You could say "nuking NK is wrong," but simply acknowledging that won't change if it will or won't happen.
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Old 2009-04-16, 06:03   Link #23
SaintessHeart
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Originally Posted by Mgz View Post
WHAT????their literacy rate is like 99% just like every other communist countries. They do care a lot about education, also after all they are Asian .
Literacy, means that the person is taught not just to read and write, but think objectively as well as subjectively for both himself and others. N.K removed the last one to keep control over their people.

Just in case you don't know, I find that the education system in Asia is more focused on feeding pure information and facts rather than teaching the students how to think, derive and understand. I was given detention for arguing against determinism (statistics) in Maths class in middle school. My phrase of "everything can be determined, if the human race has the ACTUAL capacity to do so" earned me that stay-back-after-school and alot of shit from my classmates. And most of the students just study for the sake for passing in exams and getting into university.

If everyone just want to learn and nobody wants to understand, just for the sake of personal pride/glory/gain, nor abuse knowledge in a way which could benefit in a form of discoveries or breakthroughs, what is the point of education?

I digress with my idealism of education. Returning to the point of Kimmy and the nukes, I think it would be even worse if Kim dies. A civil war might erupt and spill over to South Korea, and the machine guns at the DMZ aren't enough to mow down a 1.6 mil strong army.

UTTERLY USELESS FACT : If you take the initials of North Korea, add a U between the 2 letters and a E at the end, you get what they are always trying to build.
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Old 2009-04-16, 06:20   Link #24
yezhanquan
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Basically, all parties just want to postpone the day of reckoning. The longer the delay, the larger the impact will be when that day comes.
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Old 2009-04-16, 08:34   Link #25
risingstar3110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Literacy, means that the person is taught not just to read and write, but think objectively as well as subjectively for both himself and others. N.K removed the last one to keep control over their people.
Actually, i don't think the North Korean goverment can do that much, you overestimated their ability. More likely the difference in culture ( i do not say clothes, building and such... but how they think and act) are different with "almost" the rest of the world. Think why they worship their leader when we worship our idols instead?

Well i do not live in North Korea so what i say maybe pointless. But everytime i see Western world try to prove a group of people brainwashed, they always skip lots of detail and try to simplify the problem ( ask around and you can see how many people really believe Muslism terrorists go suicide so they can get those virgins....)

Quote:
Just in case you don't know, I find that the education system in Asia is more focused on feeding pure information and facts rather than teaching the students how to think, derive and understand. I was given detention for arguing against determinism (statistics) in Maths class in middle school. My phrase of "everything can be determined, if the human race has the ACTUAL capacity to do so" earned me that stay-back-after-school and alot of shit from my classmates. And most of the students just study for the sake for passing in exams and getting into university.

If everyone just want to learn and nobody wants to understand, just for the sake of personal pride/glory/gain, nor abuse knowledge in a way which could benefit in a form of discoveries or breakthroughs, what is the point of education?

I digress with my idealism of education. Returning to the point of Kimmy and the nukes, I think it would be even worse if Kim dies. A civil war might erupt and spill over to South Korea, and the machine guns at the DMZ aren't enough to mow down a 1.6 mil strong army.
You have an interesting way of evaluate Asian education. But then it really is out of topic
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Old 2009-04-16, 08:36   Link #26
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Geez! I really feel sorry for the citizens. Sooner or later people are gonna treat them like Iraqis.

Oh no!!! Here comes a Korean. To the safehouse......
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Old 2009-04-16, 16:29   Link #27
Shadow Kira01
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Originally Posted by vedicardi View Post
You could say "nuking NK is wrong," but simply acknowledging that won't change if it will or won't happen.
I believe that the existence of nuclear weaponry and supports nuclear abolishment. However, if North Korea intends to fire nukes, I hope they get nuked first. I guess my perspective, especially on the nukes is very similar to that of former prime minister Sato Eisaku.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Some seem to be missing the point that a pre-emptive submarine launched nuke strike would slaughter possibly millions of people whose only "crime" is to be born in the wrong country. That's exactly the sort of talk that justifies NK paranoia and makes one wonder who the "good guys" were supposed to be...
Born in the wrong country? You mean the North Koreans..? I do not think they are innocent people, considering that they grew up under a rogue regime in which they receive brainwashing sessions as education. Have you ever heard of disagreeing voices in North Korea around the world? I have yet to heard of any. And thus, people who consider North Korea as a serious threat cannot be considered as part of the so-called "NK paranoia". In fact, the term "NK paranoia" is merely part of the propaganda North Korean supporters are spreading. Thus, your point is invalid IMO, no offense though.
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Old 2009-04-16, 17:57   Link #28
Kamui4356
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Originally Posted by Shadow Minato View Post
Have you ever heard of disagreeing voices in North Korea around the world? I have yet to heard of any.
People who disagree in North Korea tend to dissappear or get "re-educated". Most of the population is too busy worrying about preventing their children from starving to death to worry about how to change things for the better besides. The lack of vocal dissenters doesn't mean that the population fully supports their "Dear Leader".
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Old 2009-04-16, 18:29   Link #29
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Minato View Post
I believe that the existence of nuclear weaponry and supports nuclear abolishment. However, if North Korea intends to fire nukes, I hope they get nuked first. I guess my perspective, especially on the nukes is very similar to that of former prime minister Sato Eisaku.



Born in the wrong country? You mean the North Koreans..? I do not think they are innocent people, considering that they grew up under a rogue regime in which they receive brainwashing sessions as education. Have you ever heard of disagreeing voices in North Korea around the world? I have yet to heard of any. And thus, people who consider North Korea as a serious threat cannot be considered as part of the so-called "NK paranoia". In fact, the term "NK paranoia" is merely part of the propaganda North Korean supporters are spreading. Thus, your point is invalid IMO, no offense though.
Your *interpretation* of my post is invalid... because you completely misunderstood my point. The paranoia I refer to is North Korea's own paranoia. The *people* of North Korea are pawns in this geopolitic -- they can't be said to have had any free choice since the information they get is so tightly controlled.
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Old 2009-04-16, 18:29   Link #30
LeoXiao
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamui4356 View Post
People who disagree in North Korea tend to dissappear or get "re-educated". Most of the population is too busy worrying about preventing their children from starving to death to worry about how to change things for the better besides. The lack of vocal dissenters doesn't mean that the population fully supports their "Dear Leader".
Not to mention all the defectors.
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Old 2009-04-16, 20:22   Link #31
Shadow Kira01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Your *interpretation* of my post is invalid... because you completely misunderstood my point. The paranoia I refer to is North Korea's own paranoia. The *people* of North Korea are pawns in this geopolitic -- they can't be said to have had any free choice since the information they get is so tightly controlled.
In that case, my apologies. Your point is valid.
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Old 2009-04-16, 23:28   Link #32
risingstar3110
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People tend to get too serious when it concern either politics or religious. So it's hard to solve a problem (when it relates to these two) without one side have to submit to defeat.

Then it is also easier to either "for" or "against" something than doubt whether we should or not. So yeah that's why international relations are such a mess.

Btw, my friend in Seoul do not even want to discuss about future conflicts in Korea, as he knows how easy he will become the target =]
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Old 2009-04-17, 01:04   Link #33
Vexx
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Originally Posted by Shadow Minato View Post
In that case, my apologies. Your point is valid.
I'll try to write more clearly in the future too..... I can see my post wasn't 100% unambiguous on rereading it.
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Old 2009-04-17, 02:45   Link #34
SaintessHeart
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From what we can see is that Korea wouldn't have a reconcilation like Germany in probably a few more decades. Having the North racked by a civil war would be disastrous as it might spill over to the South in a matter of hours!
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Old 2009-04-17, 14:19   Link #35
Shadow Kira01
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Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
From what we can see is that Korea wouldn't have a reconcilation like Germany in probably a few more decades. Having the North racked by a civil war would be disastrous as it might spill over to the South in a matter of hours!
South Korea would be in trouble if North Korea invades. Not just that the South Korean military is weaker than North Korea's, as soon as millions of refugees swarm pass the borders, the economy of South Korea is expected to deteriorate at a very fast speed. There will be all sorts of problems. Thus, it is best that Japan and South Korea team up, continue to push North Korea back to six-party talks and pressure them to denuclearize as soon as possible. There isn't many alternatives at this time with the exceptions of military operations which most people would prefer not to, including myself.
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Old 2009-04-17, 14:28   Link #36
SaintessHeart
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Originally Posted by Shadow Minato View Post
South Korea would be in trouble if North Korea invades. Not just that the South Korean military is weaker than North Korea's, as soon as millions of refugees swarm pass the borders, the economy of South Korea is expected to deteriorate at a very fast speed. There will be all sorts of problems. Thus, it is best that Japan and South Korea team up, continue to push North Korea back to six-party talks and pressure them to denuclearize as soon as possible. There isn't many alternatives at this time with the exceptions of military operations which most people would prefer not to, including myself.
Either that or buy more machine guns for the border. Quite a number of navies in the world are selling their manual CIS guns (20mm Oerlikon usually, sometimes a ZPU) for automated versions.

Invading the North sounds like a bad idea. But I could see it as inevitable in the future considering how stubborn the North Korean army is.
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Old 2009-04-17, 16:07   Link #37
Kamui4356
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Originally Posted by Shadow Minato View Post
South Korea would be in trouble if North Korea invades. Not just that the South Korean military is weaker than North Korea's, as soon as millions of refugees swarm pass the borders, the economy of South Korea is expected to deteriorate at a very fast speed. There will be all sorts of problems. Thus, it is best that Japan and South Korea team up, continue to push North Korea back to six-party talks and pressure them to denuclearize as soon as possible. There isn't many alternatives at this time with the exceptions of military operations which most people would prefer not to, including myself.
The South Korean military is not weaker than the North's. It may be smaller, but it is much better trained and equiped. Further it has a much better air force. Most imporantly South Korea has the population and industry to support it's military. If anything South Korea is much stronger than the North.
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Old 2009-04-17, 16:54   Link #38
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Originally Posted by Kamui4356 View Post
The South Korean military is not weaker than the North's. It may be smaller, but it is much better trained and equiped. Further it has a much better air force. Most imporantly South Korea has the population and industry to support it's military. If anything South Korea is much stronger than the North.
Of course, considering that NK has 99999999999 batteries of artillery pointed at Seoul, it's kind of a moot point.

SK might come out (relatively) intact, with NK absolutely devastated, but the losses would be so high on both sides it'd be a pyrrhic victory for the South.
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Old 2009-04-17, 17:25   Link #39
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It's called an evacuation. The SK will take on the paranoia claims and claim that there will be city-wide evacuation drills in the case of nuclear explosions. They do this a couple of times to determine how serious the populous will take it, make them get out and on one particular evac drill, smash NK, Seoul can burn but the people live.
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Old 2009-04-17, 19:30   Link #40
Shadow Kira01
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Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Either that or buy more machine guns for the border. Quite a number of navies in the world are selling their manual CIS guns (20mm Oerlikon usually, sometimes a ZPU) for automated versions.
Not sure about you, but I wouldn't be able to use any of the firearms if I were to guard the borders when swarm of non-combatant civilians rush over.. It's just not right..
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